[Closed] ignorant horse question

I suspect the treatment varies between owners but my experience of those who work with animals [ ie make a living from them rather than say treat them] tend to have the same affection for their animals as an engineer does for a lump of ally...its just something you work with.
Not as bad as greyhound owners though

PS get your phone ready for next time

Whilst I don't condone cruelty, there is an element to horses where they need to know who is boss and to be told so. This is a reflection of the pecking order within a horse herd where they do put each other in their place by means of biting and kicking.

In the case you describe, it reads a little excessive given that Many horses don't like their ears touched let alone hosed, so it's no wonder it did t like being washed. However a slap or even a thump In the side of A horses neck won't really hurt it or damage it.

I did think the punch wouldn't hurt it due to the animals size, it just wasn't a nice thing to see as although not a horsey person I love animals.

Nope. I'm not falling for the punching to show authority excuse.

This...

[img] [/img]

...is just plain wrong.

Pretty much what Fisha says.

You can't reason with a horse so you need to use the same methods they do. A jab to the ribs won't hurt them much, just serve as a dominant gesture or telling off. If you watch what they do to each other when they are establishing a pecking order that is very gentle. Bites, double barelled kicks aren't uncommon.

It isn't nice and most owners will try not to do it. However, if you don't establish who's boss and train your horse it will become dangerous as they are large and strong animals. And once it is too dangerous it'll become lasagne. Its a balance.

I never said that punching / cruelty was acceptable. I said that an element of a good relationship with a horse is for it to know you are the one in control. From this stems an acceptance and trust in you from the horse.

So, you fiddle around with a horse's ears - which loads of horses hate - and then punch it when it shows its displeasure?

Sounds cruel to me.

there is an element to horses where they need to know who is boss and to be told so.

This is a reflection of the pecking order within a horse herd where they do put each other in their place by means of biting and kicking.

To beat a horse when it is genuinely scared and not in any danger is not a nice thing to do.

I thought this thread would be about an 'oss that was rather uninformed, blinkered, if you will.

I can see JY has the bit between his teeth now. No need for STW to be saddled with a thread like this today.

Not furlong if the thread gets closed...

...but Tom's post wins by a canter (so far) although I did like jonba's

And once it is too dangerous it'll become lasagne.

the image is a bit mare-ish though.

Is that what that horse whisperer fella did - whispered violent threats to them?

I think he was telling the horse it would wake up in bed with an Italian's head next to it one morning...

showing aggression towards an animal is sometimes necessary, causing it serious pain is not, and should never be condoned.
its a fine line maybe, but keeping an animal clean in this weather is important to avoid fly strike etc.
its often difficult to make a judgement based on seeing something from a distance as to which side of the line that falls on....

Quite an emotive subject here, not many folk sitting on a fence.

presumably their ears need cleaning otherwise they'll get infected or something? puppies don't like their feet or ears being touched, and don't like to wear collars, but have to get used to it for their own good. if they don't like their feet being touched when they're adults then when they get hurt you can't do anything to help for instance.
if my dog does something i strongly disapprove of, i'll flip her on her back, give her the vulcan death grip, and shout down her nose at her. she is discomforted because i have her by the neck, and also because she's in a submissive position. she's never in any pain when i do this, but it reminds her that i'm in charge quite effectively.
if you have a good strategy for putting a horse in it's place i'd be interested to hear it. i've seen horses taking chunks out of each other. they're hard buggers.

I suspect a few posters won't bother reading and simply write something on the hoof.

OP: be glad you neither witnessed the owner washing the horse's "gentleman's area", nor posted here about such...

The horse wouldn't have felt the physical side of a couple of punches, but mentally would have known that it means 'I'm the Boss'.

Ears probably had flea issues.

Horse are strong. My wife's horse was having his teeth examined. The Vet did something he didn't like and he violently shook his head. Two black eyes and concussion later, my wife let go...

Ears had flea issues!?

[quote=jumble said]To beat a horse when it is genuinely scared and not in any danger is not a nice thing to do.

Agreed. But punching in the flank (strong muscle area) doesn't sound like a beating to me.

I canter believe he would have wanted to hurt it. Although I can see the OP's concern, if I saw some foal punch a horse it would filly me with rage too.

Sounds terrible.. 🙁

This thread appears to be taking a different tack, doesn't it?

As long as the horse was OK.

That's the mane thing.

Is this going to go on furlong ?

I suspect the treatment varies between owners but my experience of those who work with animals [ ie make a living from them rather than say treat them] tend to have the same affection for their animals as an engineer does for a lump of ally...its just something you work with.

Don't mean to be rude, but as someone who grew up around horses and on a farm, that's utter bollocks. Just because the closest you get to farm animals is a bottle of milk from the supermarket doesn't make you an expert on animal husbandry. Every farmer I knew growing up had an extraordinary affection for their animals, sitting through the night with them if necessary and working through terrible weather to ensure they were fed and safe. I've personally bottle fed a foal for almost two months after its dam died

Having said that, IMHO punching a horse is absolutely unacceptable - particularly in order to do something to it that it doesn't want. I've never tried to hose down a horse's ears... a far better approach is to use a damp rag but ultimately, very few horses enjoy having their ears touched at all.

If it is necessary to disciple a horse, body language and tone of voice is surprisingly effective.

Don't get me started on some (Irish, usually) racehorse trainers and greyhound breeders, though. We occasionally get ex-racehorses on the farm who've been pin-fired, and unsurprisingly it's ruined both their life and temperament.

This thread appears to be taking a different tack, doesn't it?

Neigh, we're still talking about foal play when looking after 'osses.

Is this going to go on furlong ?

Always the way with this sort of thread. Goes on for a while, then just withers away.

In before the fetlock.

Ok mr jump to assumptions - was the in my experience not a clue?

Just because the closest you get to farm animals is a bottle of milk from the supermarket doesn't make you an expert on animal husbandry.

I have lived on four farms - one arable the rest cattle

Every farmer I knew growing up had an extraordinary affection for their animals, sitting through the night with them if necessary and working through terrible weather to ensure they were fed and safe.

IME farmers exist to make money from the animals and had had next to no emotional attachment to them whatsoever - iirc it makes killing them easier.

When I was a herdsman we took great care of the cows, only time a animal was hit was when a very feisty young heifer on her first time in the parlour went nuts and kicked here way out 😯 senior herdsman Paul gave her a few cracks with a length of pipe and she settled down. She still would kick me once a week 😆 nasty cow.

There are a few bad apples but all the farmers I know treat their herd or flock with a lot of care, maybe not the affection some people may have for a cat or a dog but with care and kindness. Bottom line happy cows produce more milk.

Personally I had a few favourite cows, just such funny things to be around.

Its tailing off

IME farmers exist to make money from the animals and had had next to no emotional attachment to them whatsoever - iirc it makes killing them easier.

[url= http://the-mooman.co.uk/page2/ ]Some are nice[/url] 🙂

No experience of dairy farms so I cannot comment on how they are.

She still would kick me once a week nasty cow.

She sounds quite sensible to me

C'mon Junky, stop trying to stirrup trouble 😉

Brrrrmp tish he is here all day folks. Sadly 😆

No not you Billy 😀

C'mon Junky, stop trying to stirrup trouble

The mods have been trying to rein him in for ages. Hence why he's saddled with the "lazarus" tag.

Hoof Hearted

needs a good shoeing

Bottom line happy cows produce more milk.

My friend did her PhD on that and found no evidence of it being true, milk was let down faster though!

Cannot believe people would still pin fire horses, how is it even legal?

Did she find any evidence of it not being true?

Did she bridle at her findings? Were the cows kept warm enough though, you didn't want them to be fresian.

Pull the udder one.

If they're freisian, they could always wear a jersey.

Well, seems this thread has moooved on...

Something very foal going on here.

Dominance, showing it who's boss, is a very outdated method of training/conditioning an animal.

The 'dominance' model of animal behaviour is flawed.

Anyone punching a horse is a total prick and should be reported for cruelty. There is no excuse for it.

If you saw it take place you should do something!

I remember visiting the Shire Horse Centre in Devon as a kid. There was a farrier's demonstration with some old West Country character nailing shoes onto big 'uns. At one point, the Shire horse started to rest its weight on the farrier's back as he was bending down. He gave it a great almighty crack on the flanks with a 2 foot long rasp file, It didn't even flinch, just straightened up a bit!

Stratobiker... All the monty/Pirelli stuff is dominance by a different method. Watch monty start from scratch , he chases the animal round the ring until it submits and wonders what the thing is that chasing him ... From there on in its a case of the horse submitting to the tasks being asked ... Knowing and trusting that monty by the nature of not being to outrun him at the start is the dominant one.

It may not be physical hitting, but it's dominance.

Pictures are now up on OP's flicka page.

I'm tote sick of this: some of the posters here are just talking a bunch of pony. Some people will see something entirely innocent and scream blue Red Rum because they don't know any better. They're champing at the bit to take offence to something, but those who know the SP will see things for what they are: the treatment that is appropriate depends on the situation. It's horses for courses.

There is a battle of wills going on for sure, the other half has a horse and he's known to be a right b'stard with strangers but he follows her around like a puppy, just treated with lots of kindness and with him lots. What I have seen a lot of down at the stables is tiny teenage girls leading 2/3 horses around no problems at all and yet their owners struggle with them. Calm confidence and lots of contact seems to work well. As for the 'highly strung' horses there's the impact of the feeding they are given which plays merry hell with their digestive system and temperament as a result.