... do you think the result would be any different?
Given that it has not been confirmed that there's loads of oil left, businesses are leaving Scotland anyway, and that there's no extra powers going anywhere soon.
I've been missing the political threads so humour me. 😀
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You can go burl for a kick off.
If there was I'd ****ing shoot myself.
[quote=anagallis_arvensis ]If there was I'd **** shoot myself.
If you don't have a vote, that hardly affects the result...
do you think the result would be any different?
No I still wouldn't be arsed.
There is no way Westminster will allow Scotland another referendum. The SNP will have to stand for Holyrood on the platform that a majority for them is an automatic endorsement of a Universal Declaration of Independence.
And then it will get really meesy.
I'd still vote yes.
I would lose again, so many things and in so many ways.
It would still be a no vote and I doubt anyone has changed opinions
humour me
Two nuns in a bath..
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It would be even more No. The wave of enthusiasm/ hysteria is already dying off.
It would be fixed, just like the last one.
It would be fixed, just like the last one.
Bears repeating.
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Wasn't expecting it to be that easy
The people that are saying it was fixed are clearly muppets. There does however appear to be a bit of potential for a tory politician to spend a bit of time in the clink, so it's not all bad.
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It would still be a no vote and I doubt anyone has changed opinions
Actually, I think I might have... Changed my opinion I mean.
Hardly an avalanche though.
It would still be a no vote and I doubt anyone has changed opinions
nobody? I'm sure some have. Some were certainly swayed by the "vow" and GB's intervention. Some of those are definitely a bit pee'd off at lack of clarity/progress. Is there the 1:10 no voters needed to swing it, or to motivate a third of those who didn't bother to vote? Almost certainly not. Could there be by May? Its possible. Could the composition of any coalition swing it? yes. Could a UK EU referendum swing it? certainly - even if the UK stay in, the debate surrounding it will frustrate a lot of Scots.
It seems to be quite difficult for people campaigning for self determination to accept an act of self determination 🙂
Course it'd still be a No. Westminster hasn't had time to completely break The Vow yet, give it time 😉
I personally think that you have to admire the bare faced effrontery of the utter **** who seems to have turned the Scottish referendum vote into a mandate to gerrymander the electoral system to give himself a permenent majority, and also abolish human rights legislation.
Or you could see that 45% of the population of Scotland were right in identifying them as a shameless bunch of shysters that would make anyone condemn the Westminster system for the fraud that it is
Hey ho....
Or you could see that 45% of the population of Scotland
45% or people who voted, not 45% of the population. People may have not voted for lots of reasons, but not because they are keen yes supporters.
44.7% of 84.59% is [i]37.81%[/i]
You're not. We'll never know. Ho hum. Next.
The people of Scotland voted No to independence. For the moment. What's going to be interesting is what will happen in the next general election and Scottish election, and whether anything at all will come out of the Smith commission.
Surveys show that the people of Scotland decisively want independence [u]as long as you don't call it independence[/u] - if decisive more powers, something like the federal system or home rule that was promised in the closing days of the campaign, don't materialise then there will be a lot of No voters feeling that they've been taken for fools.
wanmankylung - Member... do you think the result would be any different?
Well presumably according to you yes, as there are now less Yes supporters in Scotland .
All part of a "brain drain" apparently.
wanmankylung - MemberI wonder if the impending brain drain from Scotland was considered as a potential outcome of a No vote. It may well just be my extended circle of acquaintances, but there are a lot of highly qualified people making firm plans to leave Scotland forever.
Posted 1 week ago
wanmankylung - MemberThat's the plan. Professional registration has been obtained, visa has been applied for and job is just about sealed. Melbourne is my destination - have more family there than what I have here. Will be getting paid around 150% more for doing the same job. Living costs will be comparable.
Posted 1 week ago
wanmankylung - MemberOne thing that has amazed me about people packing up and shipping out of Scotland is the speed at which they have started going. The first people I know of left permanently today - 7 of them.
Posted 1 week ago
Have you arrived in Melbourne yet btw ?
Don't worry Ernie, I left a note at the airport warning about some anti establishment revolutionaries from IS coming over. They should be picking him up soon....
if decisive more powers, something like the federal system or home rule that was promised in the closing days of the campaign, don't materialise then there will be a lot of No voters feeling that they've been taken for fools.
It's also worth noting that any of those powers impact the entire UK and need to be agreed by the entire UK.
binners - Member
I personally think that you have to admire the bare faced effrontery of the utter **** who seems to have turned the Scottish referendum vote into a mandate to gerrymander the electoral system to give himself a permenent majority, and also abolish human rights legislation.
It always comes back to a left right thing doesn't it, ironically the one campaigning for this outcome the hardest was AS.
I personally think that you have to admire the bare faced effrontery of the utter **** who seems to have turned the Scottish referendum vote into a mandate to gerrymander the electoral system to give himself a permenent majority
You're referring to plans to provide Tam with an answer? Presumably you think Scottish MPs should continue to vote on matters which don't affect their constituents?
Oh and I CBA to search myself, but if you check back through my posts on the great Scottish Indy thread you'll find details on how often Scottish MPs were needed for Labour to get a majority - it wasn't very many.
warning about some anti establishment revolutionaries from IS coming over.
You mean [i]former[/i] anti establishment revolutionaries :
Apparently they "no longer give a shit about Scotland" and "hope the Tories ruin Scotland".
In which case the boss has a message
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[url= http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/18/you-dont-migrate-to-this-country-unless-you-want-to-join-our-team/ ]‘You Don’t Migrate To This Country Unless You Want To Join Our Team’[/url]
Well this came back up quicker than I expected. I think the result would still be a no though by a slightly smaller margin as disaffected no voters turn to yes. I view the prospect of Cameron abandoning the Human Rights Act and removing the Uk except for Scotland from the jurisdiction of the ECHR with a little sang froid.
Pointless discussing it, democracy wins, no more independence referendums for a generation - obviously with the diet of deep fried mars bars n irn bru n haggis, the length of a generation in scotchland is that much shorter than elsewhere but still should mean the blue face paint can be put away for 20 yrs or so.
Still no sign of the yes vandals clearing up their mess of stickers tainting every ****ing road sign.
Are you that convinced that the last week of panic from Cameron et al really swung it ? I thought they were counter productive and left quietly to get on with more people in Scotland would have voted No.
The 55/45 was pretty predictable.
If the Yes campaign learn from their mistakes and target marginal areas rather than wasting their time door-knocking in Edinburgh and The Borders, they may have more success.
I think it still may happen in our lifetimes - I was always a No, but also a bit of a Not Yet, this is not a good time to spend all that money we don't have on a referendum, let alone the costs of setting up all the new agencies. Lets get some more powers from Westminster, slow change that won't scare the horses, and reassess in another ten years.
Much better to spend all that money we don't have on killing some random dudes in a HiLux in Iraq? Even conservative estimates of the cost of the Iraq air strikes put the cost higher than the estimates of the cost of setting up an independent Scotland.
Decisive No last time and it would be the same again now or indeed in the coming few years (not that there will be another referendum in a generation, eg 10+ years that's why Salmond has stood down).
By the way a number of North Sea oil companies announced layoffs and potential business sale, they had quite a pessimistic view of the sector and one major US company is determined to focus on shale gas.
OP will you be letting us know where the leader of the next NO campaign is born?
they had quite a pessimistic view of the sector and one major US company is determined to focus on shale gas.
I know what company you are talking about. The news has it wrong. It's all based on a speculative article. Not so say that there won't be changes, there will, but it's not what has been reported in the press over the last few days.
Are we having a referendum on bombing Iraq ? That would give all the newly fired up political activist kiddies something to do.
Also, I have a question too: Why was the Yes side so associated with the Left ? I never got that - "we have enough for ourselves and will be better off and don't want to share with the rest of UK - bumholes to you all" how is that not a Righty proposition ?
Somebody passed me a link last week about a website called "All Of Us First", which is hoping to continue the Yes momentum. I queried how we can all be first, but it seems it is about all of us being equal. Or rather, all of those who are Scots, being equal. Again scary right wing nationalism being linked in an odd way to being a socialist proposition. All very worrying.
hels - Member
Are you that convinced that the last week of panic from Cameron et al really swung it ? I thought they were counter productive and left quietly to get on with more people in Scotland would have voted No.The 55/45 was pretty predictable.
If the Yes campaign learn from their mistakes ...
Well I know quite a few people who claimed to be "don't know" before the Vow, Cameron's speech in Aberdeen and Brown's speech the day before. I think they all voted NO in the end. Of course they may well have still voted no, even without that intervention. I don't know anyone who was don't know and pushed in the opposite direction by their involvement - only Yes voters who become more resolute as a result. Even some quite clear No voters have said to me they would change their view if the promises are not kept - although I'm not sure they (or indeed anyone else!) really knows what the promises were.
Actually, potentially the biggest change since the 18th is Mr Salmond's departure. Inevitably some people couldn't get over their dislike of the man to vote yes. (Likewise I'm sure that some Yes voters would be converted if the PM was to resign). Its not clear if the replacement will prove to be more popular in the short or long term. A clearer currency plan wouldn't have gone a miss either - if only because it gave Better together something to aim for.
Whilst I think the whole country is kind of glad for a respite from the bickering and political posturing, there's no doubt that the people of Scotland are expecting major change in one form or another. 12 months on if people don't notice any change there will be resentment - which could swing it, but I don't believe there will be another referendum until at least the Scottish parliament after next. Nobody in Scotland would accept independence without a referendum. A generation will not be necessary if the general opinion is much clearer in favour of independence.
I voted yes, and I can categorically say.......shut up!!!!
That referendum was an embarrassment to Scotland and the only good that came from it was the voter turnout. The decision was made, Scotland had its chance and as I said from the beginning, the country now has to live with the consequences whatever they might have been
At least we got to parade our bigoted and small minded in George Square the next night
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Somebody passed me a link last week about a website called "All Of Us First", which is hoping to continue the Yes momentum. I queried how we can all be first, but it seems it is about all of us being equal. Or rather, all of those who are Scots, being equal.
Four legs good, two legs [s]bad[/s] better
With Nicola heading towards the helm of the SNP I'm confident that 'No' would walk it.
hels - MemberSomebody passed me a link last week about a website called "All Of Us First", which is hoping to continue the Yes momentum. I queried how we can all be first, but it seems it is about all of us being equal. Or rather, all of those who are Scots, being equal. Again scary right wing nationalism being linked in an odd way to being a socialist proposition. All very worrying.
"all of us first" is a common weal thing, don't think many people would agree that's scary right wing nationalism?
