[Closed] If there was a 2nd Brexit referendum, what could the question actually be?

You think we'll know what the deal is in 2 years? I'll be some hastily cobbled together interim deal and it'll take years until we reach a settled position.

Are you a complete **** or not?

I understand that even if Article 50 is instigated we still have until the end of the 23rd month to actual decide whether we'd leave or not

I'm not 100% that this is the case. It's been mentioned in the press but while A50 doesn't explicitly say we can't change our mind, it doesnt say we can either? I think the option to withdraw from our withdrawal would need confirmation from the EU in some way before we trigger A50.

Logically, were there to be a second referendum, it would have to be once the full plan* was agreed to and then it would be 'Should the UK leave the EU based on the proposal of xyz?'

I think its a pretty stupid idea though because about 20% of the voting populace would read the proposal, about 20% of that 20% would actually understand it, and the rest would vote based on whatever their particular favourite media suggests.

*EDIT - insofar as the plan can be full given the uncertainties

Simple Yes-No question?

"In the light of everything that has been revealed by both sides since June 23rd, are you out of your ****ing minds"

"when brexiteers rise up and burn your town down, will you hold yourself partly responsible?"

Did we make a **** of this?

Will the question be on the side of the bus?

If I give you £10,000 will you vote for me?

Don't think it would matter what the question was. People voted for idealogical reasons often far removed from the effectiveness of the European Union.

"when brexiteers rise up and burn your town down, will you hold yourself partly responsible?"

In your dreams, they'll just go back to moaning about how great it was when we had slavery.....

If people still vote to leave will you still moan relentlessly or accept the result?

philxx1975 - Member
If people still vote to leave will you still moan relentlessly or accept the result?

Happily accept it. Will you now agree to another ref?

Are you a treacherous anti democracy moaner should cover it.
Shame this isn't buried in the other thread.

So that's a No from footflaps. He'll be first against the wall then.

"Do you also agree to forfeit future democratic votes?"

If it were to be run again it needs an objective information approach rather than two sides in battle.

The most likely benefits from leaving
The most likely losses from leaving

Also some simple facts around immigration and the actual impact to the country to try and remove the racist vote.

Also needs to be a large majority either way for it to count. 52 to 48 is clearly not good enough.

If I give you £10,000 take many tens of thousands of pounds and your children's future from you will you vote for me?

FTFY

"when brexiteers rise up and burn your town down, will you hold yourself partly responsible?"

Judging by the age breakdown of the people voted leave they're less likely to burn your town down and more likely to grab the nearest pitchfork and then go "Now what did I rise up for again?"

And besides my town voted 2/1 to remain, we'd be more likely to rise up if we do leave.

"If this booth was a time machine, where do you want to go?"

June 23rd 2016 []

June 23rd 1716 []

"You've proven you are a moron and a racist so, If you had a brain, an engaged brain, one that didn't have the attention span of X Factor, weigh up the facts (not the doughnuts) and realise that you've single handedly ruined a Great Country, which way would you vote now"

But you'd never get that on a Bus, but I would happily tattoo it on FlatulentFarrage and BorisJingoist's foreheads.

You know where I stand on this subject.

We are so far past the point that voters could be swayed by reasoned argument that it seems pointless trying.

I think the only option is to leave the EU and let the country experience the reality for a few years then as people realise that they are becoming socially, culturally and economically poorer public opinion may shift enough to try and rejoin again but probably on a much worse deal than we have currently.

best of three?

"Have you, at any time, fantasised about Nigel Farage?"

Rachel

There is the possibility that Le Pen wins in France, holds a Frexit referendum and the EU starts to unravel before we even get the chance to invoke article 50....

Would you like a non-Pinocchio version of the consequences of staying in or leaving? Yes/no

And, since I understand that even if Article 50 is instigated we still have until the end of the 23rd month to actual decide whether we'd leave or not - would we leave this 2nd referendum until then?

No A50 is irreversable without approval of all 27 members, you can't extend it or cancel it without their approval. This renders any second referendum effectively pointless (for Remainers) as a no would deliver hard Brexit.

[b]Ref 2: Do you want a civil war yes/no ?[/b]

On a modestly more serious note the seemingly obvious question would be are you happy with the deal - however that's almost certain to be no result as there will be leavers happy to accept say a budget contribution and those who will say no. Add that to all the Remainers who'd vote no and you wouldn't get a win

The only reason anyone is suggesting a second referendum is they want to prevent Brexit, discussing the "deal" is a total red herring (imo of course)

There is the possibility that Le Pen wins in France, holds a Frexit referendum and the EU starts to unravel before we even get the chance to invoke article 50....

I have pointed this out also, plus we have Austrian Presidential re-run in Dec (50/50 tie last time Greens/Far Right), Dutch election with potentially very eueosceptic outcome (Dutch already passed a law saying no new treaties without a Referendum), French in April/May and Germans in October. The picture is very unclear.

Apologies in advance, I couldn't resist. A Referendum on the following ...

"Have you, at any time, fantasised about Nigel Farage, Rachel ?"

"Have you, at any time, fantasised about Nigel Farage and Rachel ?"

"Have you, at any time, fantasised about Nigel Farage or Rachel ?"

For the avoidance of doubt this supposed to be a joke ... IGMC

oldtalent - Member - Block User - Quote
Are you a treacherous anti democracy moaner should cover it.
Shame this isn't buried in the other thread.

POSTED 44 MINUTES AGO #
enfht - Member - Block User - Quote
So that's a No from footflaps. He'll be first against the wall then.

POSTED 42 MINUTES AGO #
enfht - Member - Block User - Quote
"Do you also agree to forfeit future democratic votes?"

POSTED 40 MINUTES AGO #

There speaks two people who don't understand democracy.

I think it should be "Do you want your country to be shit?".

Do I look super in this?

Are you so utterly deluded that you'll never grasp why others really voted leave and in order to process the result in your soppy brain continue to call brexiteers racist bigots?

Did you vote to leave previously based on bigoted long held beliefs but now realise that the costs of things in shops have gone up so regret your decision?

I think all the Reaminers (i'm one of them) need to start accepting that we are DEFINITELY LEAVING THE EU (if it doesn't collapse first).

What we need is for the Left (Labour, Lib Dems, Green) to get it's sh1t together and start being a lot more vocal about a plan for Brexit and a vision of the UK outside the EU as an alternative to May who is doing it all behind closed doors and seems to be taking a big lurch to the Right.

Trying to cancel it or have another referendum is a waste of time.

Still waiting for an explanation actually

On a modestly more serious note the seemingly obvious question would be are you happy with the deal - however that's almost certain to be no result as there will be leavers happy to accept say a budget contribution and those who will say no. Add that to all the Remainers who'd vote no and you wouldn't get a win

So the referendum could only have been won so long as the question was framed by a background of idealistic concepts that individual voters could interpret however they saw fit, but if the country were presented with the actual best deal the government can negotiate then the vote would almost certainly go the other way.

Perhaps, maybe Cameron should have thought of that. I think he assumed he would win or the result could be ignored (non legally binding).

Also some simple facts around immigration and the actual impact to the country to try and remove the racist vote.

Well if Leave would have been allowed to have had access to the civil service maybe we would have got that. As only Remain had access and failed to make a complelling case based on actual data I can only assume that the data was not helpful to their case.

[i]Perhaps, maybe Cameron should have thought of that. I think he assumed he would win or the result could be ignored (non legally binding). [/I]

Don't disagree, except it wasn't (and isn't) legally binding - says so in the actual legislation.

[s]Do you accept the terms offered by the EU to the UK? [/s]

How about:

Which country can I move all my savings and pensions to until all this sorts itself out?

Well if Leave would have been allowed to have had access to the civil service maybe we would have got that. As only Remain had access and failed to make a complelling case based on actual data I can only assume that the data was not helpful to their case

Nah the leave campaign were told many times that the 350mil for the NHS was a lie, but they rolled with it anyway.

If there was one thing that Vote Leave was not interested in it was actual facts and data

People wanted a simple solution to very complicated problems, that is what Vote Leave promised to give them.

Which country can I move all my savings and pensions to until all this sorts itself out?

You can do that now. We had a pension/investment thread recently. I posted up I am (roughly) 30% invested in UK, the wife has a property in France but all her pension/investments are in the US. I have effectively zero investments in Europe ex UK.

about 20% of the voting populace would read the proposal, about 20% of that 20% would actually understand it, and the rest would vote based on whatever their particular favourite media suggests.

Kimbers, the original question was about immigration hence my reply. We could have a little wager (for honour if you like) that by 2019 our weekly contribution to the EU budget net of rebate is £350m a week (currently £200m)

Well if Leave would have been allowed to have had access to the civil service maybe we would have got that. As only Remain had access and failed to make a complelling case based on actual data I can only assume that the data was not helpful to their case.

Given that it was an unholy mix of Farage/Gove/Johnson/IDS etc opinions trumpeted by the Daily Mail/Sun/Express vs facts I'm not surprised facts won.

Lying through your teeth, putting the shits up people and then telling them that the only way to make the imaginary scenario go away is always going to be an easier sell than the dry facts of a matter because you can say anything. Just look at any other debate going on at the moment.

if there was a 2nd referendum what could the Yes/No question actually be?

Best of three?

Should we take a blowtorch to each snowflake that demanded another go at getting their own way ?

Don't disagree, except it wasn't (and isn't) legally binding - says so in the actual legislation.

I know, I aksed Chris Grayling about this at a Leave launch event. Myself and a few other people said we didn't trust the Govt to deliver Brexit even in the event of a Leave win. The SNP didn't trust Cameron so they got a legally binding agreement. I pointed that out to Grayling too 🙂

Best of three?

Deja vu 😉 (tmh ^^^)

Are you a lily-livered snowflake who doesn't believe in their country?

ah thm, always a sharper tack than I.

I'm not sure that "best of 3?" is forward looking enough:

Best of 5?

Remainiacs, Snowflake Citizens of Nowhere like myself

Are just trying to avoid taking a big bite of the shit sandwhich that is Brexit.

As I'm not to fond of eating shit, I say we rerun it until the answer is remain and we can get to work making the world a better place.

I'm not convinced another referendum is the way to go, although I hate the thought of leaving the EU.

I think the government either has to have the balls to go for brexit properly, or have the balls to say why they are not going to do it. This fannying around isn't really helping anyone at the moment.

I'm not sure that "best of 3?" is forward looking enough:

Best of 5?

or we could just continue with a referendum on membership of the common market every 41 years.

There is the possibility that Le Pen wins in France, holds a Frexit referendum and the EU starts to unravel before we even get the chance to invoke article 50

ah thm, always a sharper tack than I.

Maybe we can all roll down a trail together someday, Surrey Hills or PdS.

I have pointed this out also, plus we have Austrian Presidential re-run in Dec (50/50 tie last time Greens/Far Right), Dutch election with potentially very eueosceptic outcome (Dutch already passed a law saying no new treaties without a Referendum), French in April/May and Germans in October. The picture is very unclear.

I suspect that is why we have not issues Art 50 sooner, and why May has kept our actual plans so secret despite the flack she is getting for it. The noises being made by Trump regards bilateral deals and even UK entering a new NAFTA arrangement are already be making some bottoms squeaky in Germany, and Erdogans threat today to essentially 'open the gates' could be Nuclear to the upcoming elections.

Are you absolutely sure?

Are you a quitter?

A second referendum would be futile in that it would simply reinforce Brexit - 'The 3rd Domino' - the ensuing rejection of the Renzi referendum in Italy will most likely happen and then Austria - The E.U. is imploding - to advocate it's survival is to advocate subordination of Europeans' inalienable rights - Crazy times - that so many recognise these factors - intrinsically a slide towards fascist totalitarianism - but still see it as tangible system - Useful idiots don't seem to recognise that the more they double down on their Stockholm Syndrome induced folly the more prevalent people's desire for independence becomes - you've achieved noòthing more than furthering a global thirst for independence.

Just out of interest, Where did Weapon of mass destruction Dave GO?

[i]Are you a lily-livered snowflake who doesn't believe in their country? [/I]

Nah, just someone who doesn't believe leaving is the right thing for MY country and MY family.

Personally, I don't think it'll impact us (wife and I) other than a bit of belt-tightening for a long period - probably up to retirement (early 50's, for 10 years?)...

But I do think it will impact my 3 adult children and their families, which may then impact us if we need to help them out.

Erdogans threat today to essentially 'open the gates' could be Nuclear to the upcoming elections.

and having f***ed off the french, and obviously playing for the electorate, why bother doing anything to stop migrants crossing the channel. shut the border station at Calais and repatriate.

You think that if Le Pen wins in France there's going to be camps full of immigrants at Calais waiting to cross the channel

There may well be [u]camps[/u] of course 😈

Do you want to super-size that?

More seriously if it was round 2...

Knowing what you know now do you want to carry on with Brexit?

There was a lot of bull poop talked and misinformation the worst of which has now been outed on both sides so if there was to be a round 2 I think it should openly deal with that. It would also imo need to be done on a flash basis (no time for campaigning).

There should be No Second referendum because the result of the first one is very clear - We are leaving EU.

Now everyone is waiting for Trump's first move. 😆

There will be No EU system in future and the question is how soon.

Chewk,still not chipping in for the price of Brexit by helping out the mag by buying a subscription?
Your actions have pushed their costs up.
Come on ,we're all in this together.

Round 2 question
Yes or no, Should public referendum results be ignored by elected government?

😉

zippykona - Member
Chewk,still not chipping in for the price of Brexit by helping out the mag by buying a subscription?
Your actions have pushed their costs up.
Come on ,we're all in this together.

What mag subscription? Seriously I don't know what you are referring to. 😯

chipping in for the price of Brexit by helping out the mag by buying a subscription

Wow.

loum - Member
Round 2 question
Yes or no, Should public referendum results be ignored by elected government?

The round two question should be.

Should UK decide on whether to decide on having a second round referendum with the best of five wining deciding decision on deciding if there should be second round referendum? 😆

This already was a second referendum.

It's currently one-all.

We need another one for the best of three.

edit - Shouldn't post what I really think...

flap_jack - Member

This already was a second referendum.

It's currently one-all.

We need another one for the best of three.

Nahh ... we are still on deciding on whether to decide on second round referendum ... 😛

First one 1975. I remember it well, same arguments but with integrity and without the lies. And those that actually fought for the country voted IN.

Nahh ... we are still on deciding on whether to decide on second round referendum ...

edit - Shouldn't post what I really think...

Your opinion was noted. As many have said, however, opinions are like arseholes....

Tony Benn never fought. Healey, Heath etc actually saw action, as did my parents. All IN.