[Closed] Iain Banks / Iain M Banks

They can be pretty "space-shippy" and also quite grim in places, but having read the Iain Banks books I'd guess you already know that.

Personally I'd start with the first of the Culture books, canny remember its title at the moment though.

*Edit: Consider Phlebas

they're stories about characters. There's space ships in there but they're more part of the story than a kind of 'ooh lets add some space ships to make it SF'.

Player of Games is a good one as is Excession (sp?) - his stories are self contained but I'd probably try and read them in the order they were written as characters do appear in more than one book and there is a kind of arc to the Culture books that will make more sense read in order.

quite grim in places

I've survived The Wasp Factory 😯 so I'll be OK.

Some are very 'space shippy', like Excession which is partially narrated by conversations between ships. But like a lot of sci-fi, he just writes stories set in a different Culture rather than being all whizz kerpow star wars stuff. Ian Banks stuff like The Bridge or Walking on Glass is pretty close to some of the Ian M Banks stuff. I'd start with 'Against a dark background' or 'State of the art' & see where you go from there.

They're quite "space-shippy" but the character development is quite similar to his main stream books. "Use of Weapons" is a good starting point.

I started with Consider Phlebas, but agree that Use of Weapons, Player of Games are also kick ass reads and get you into the whole 'Culture' thing.

Would it be OK to admit that he also does the 'action/exciting' bits truly fabulously, even a wee bit like Tom Clancy when on form (e.g. Red Storm Rising tank battles - v exciting)?

The characters are fabulous in most of the M Banks books, and I absolutely love the humour (I LOL'd at certain points in Surface Detail' recently), but for me I just rattle through the chapters when the action picks up. The race in the clouds in 'The Algebrist', The Abomintor ship in Surface detail, the battle to get out of the GSV in Consider Phlebas. Absolutely kick ass exciting reading, so well described and visualised.

Kev

what they said, but if you're a bit leery of sci fi i'd leave excession alone until you get into it a bit, and maybe feersum enjin (sp?) too, though i should read that again i think.

The culture ones (with the exception of player of games) are pretty space shippy - although thats not a bad thing. His books tend to focus on the characters, although these may well be AI rather than human.

I would start with Against a Dark Background - its one of the best books I have ever read. Its just got that something that grabs me, something about the depth of the main character and the desperation shes put through, I dont quite have the words for it but it will stick in your memory. After that Surface Detail is superb. Then I would suggest Use of Weapons, then you might as well dive into the full blown culture books, Excession is the best example there.

I dont really like State of the Art, he doesnt seem to do the short stories as well in my mind. I much prefer Zima Blue, a book of short stories by Alasdair Reynolds, and would suggest thats where to go in sci-fi to begin with for your short story fix.

I doubt you will regret reading any Iain M Banks - perhaps the real place to start is whatever your local charity shop has for 50p?

You'll probably get the full spectrum of comments when it comes to asking STWers to recommened his space stuff. I've read 2-3 (Player of Games, Phlebus ...) and had a go at others but just don't get on with them. Much prefer his more contemporary stuff.

My suggestion is use of weapons. Absolutely fantastic. I would argue that its his best book, regardless of the M in the middle of his name.

big_scot_nanny - Try Neal Asher. Prador Moon or The Voyage of Sable Keech. Not eaxcatly high brow sci-fi but so much superb action so well done! Also Richard Morgan as well actually - Broken Angels, proper hard sci-fi but some good action as well!

Go for State of The Art as a starter. It's a collection of short stories. Even if it is just for the line "first person singular obtaining colloquial orgasm within a Caledonian sandwich" 🙂

some very good points mentioned
consider phlebas is the chronological start but space opera for sure
use of weapons or player of games would ne best

fwiw id say the M stuff was better written than a lot of his non M stuff

I love space ships - a welcome addition to any book.

Love the names of them in the Culture books. GSV Read the Instructions, and Of Course I Still Love You. Brilliant.

The Algebrist is one of my faves, and the one with the fire planet - is that The Player of Games ? (although I think it was a little based on Enders Game but thats another thread in another forum)

Iain M Banks is the only SF I have ever persuaded my ladies book reading club to enjoy. I have tried !! For some reason space ships put a lot of people off. Crazy.

You'll probably get the full spectrum of comments when it comes to asking STWers to recommened his space stuff. I've read 2-3 (Player of Games, Phlebus ...) and had a go at others but just don't get on with them. Much prefer his more contemporary stuff.

if you're a bit leery of sci fi i'd leave excession alone until you get into it a bit, and maybe feersum enjin (sp?) too, though i should read that again i think.

Interesting.

I'm no stranger to SF, having read a lot of Phillip K Dick and Asimov in my time. I also like Iain Banks' books. But I just didn't get on with the one Iain M Banks book I have (Feersum Enjin).

Maybe I'll try a couple of the others?

I would like to thank this thread for informing me of an Iain M Banks book I haven't read.

heads off to Amazon for 'Surface Detail'

Ditto, but I'll take the cheapskate option

heads off to local library

feersum enjin is very much a standalone M novel
I'm that case consider phlebas it is

best ship name anyone ?
ethics gradient

I loved The Wasp Factory and enjoy a bit of Sci-fi, so I picked up The Algebrist from the library. I just couldn't get on with it a t all. Just didn't like the style. I couldn't make it more than a few pages in.

I've read most of the Ian Banks books and recently started on M with Consider Phlebus, which was excellent. Full of imaginative imagery and some unexpectedly gruesome bits and gave me a really good understanding of the immensity of the universe. The final battle in the tunnels didn't do it for me though; I though he'd run out of ideas by then.

They're a bit space-shippy but not in the way you think. The ones I've read have the same Banks genius applied to.. well.. a whole Culture. It's completely immersive and compelling, and I'm really not a scifi fan as such. The good thing is that it really is sci-fi as in the implications of technology, but from a societal aspect.

Surface Detail was one of those books that made me profoundly sad when I finished it simply because it was over.. It's got loads of Culture exposition in it (although not awkwardly so) so it could be a good starter.

I really cannot even begin to explain how awesome Mr Banks is for me. I feel like a child on the knee of a great storyteller... 🙂

I love space ships - a welcome addition to any book.

Really? Pride and Prejudice in Space?

best ship name anyone ?

Toss up between 'Unfortunate Conflict Of Evidence' and 'Frank Exchange Of Views' 😆

Consider Phlebas was the one I started with too, absolutely loved it. Read a couple of the others (Look to Windward, Use of Weapons) and enjoyed those too.

Didn't read any of his for a long time and then picked up The Algebraist in a library sale a few weeks back. I've tried to get into it but I just can't.

"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a space ship."

That was easy !! Next !!

best ship name?

There's too many

a sample..
- I Thought He Was With You
- Space Monster
- I Blame My Mother
- I Blame Your Mother
- Only Slightly Bent
- I Thought He Was With You

Love the idea of a huge, self aware ships giving themselves daft/humous names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_(The_Culture)

too many names to mention that make me smile;

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_%28The_Culture%29 ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_%28The_Culture%29[/url]

[edit] too late

Fearsum enjinn is one of my favourite books, a very, very cool idea.
I like the culture stuff, I read excession first which probably wasn't a brilliant idea. Reread it recently and I still had trouble remembering which ships were on whiose side, cool names but confusing.

I would like to thank this thread for informing me of an Iain M Banks book I haven't read.

heads off to Amazon for 'Surface Detail'

Ditto, but I'll take the cheapskate option

heads off to local library

Heads off to the Kindle store to download some M samples to see if I can now start getting into them

Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints was probably the coolest ship, regardless of name.

He regrets putting the M in his name for the "sci-fi" books. He considers them the same.

Iain Banks great.
Iain M Banks not great, in fact shite!

molgrips - Member

Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints was probably the coolest ship, regardless of name.

Agreed, absolutely ****ing brilliant.

dmiller - Member

big_scot_nanny - Try Neal Asher. Prador Moon or The Voyage of Sable Keech. Not eaxcatly high brow sci-fi but so much superb action so well done! Also Richard Morgan as well actually - Broken Angels, proper hard sci-fi but some good action as well!

Cheers!

thanks for your useful observation there Don, cause we obviously all agree 🙄

thanks for your useful observation there Don, cause we obviously all agree

You're most welcome as I assume all opinions are valid. 🙄

Iain Banks great.
Iain M Banks not great, in fact shite

Got that one wrong I'm afraid!

Meatf.... is not a real ship name, but still my favourite.

thanks for your useful observation there Don, cause we obviously all agree

Sorry for having an opinion. 😥
Tried reading the Algebraist and it was slow and boring.
Sorry for havin an informed opinion. 😥 😥 😕

Of course you can have an opinion, you're still wrong though.

Like most others here, I reckon his sci-fi stuff is brilliant. There's a lot of high-concept stuff in there, but I think he's the best sci-fi [i]story-teller[/i] there is. He draws his characters and dialog with much, much more detail and subtlety than any other sci-fi author I've read. And the humour is great - no jokes, just an underlying wryness.

NOT FAIR!!!!!! 👿

Surface Detail was one of those books that made me profoundly sad when I finished it simply because it was over..

Exactly the same for me, I reckon it's his best to date.

Molgrips - did you get the reference at the end to the characters name??

did anyone read Transition?

i found it in a cottage i rented in cornwall last summer. was actually quite impressed, very imaginitive and quite a clever structure.

Molgrips - did you get the reference at the end to the characters name??

Which one? Well. Clearly I didn't if I have to ask 🙂 Or I don't remember.

EDIT: Oh you mean the solidier guy.. ah yes - his name rang a bell so I looked it up but I think I haven't read the ones in which he is a major player.

Try Neal Asher. Prador Moon or The Voyage of Sable Keech. Not eaxcatly high brow sci-fi but so much superb action so well done!

+1, Having finished Surface Detail recently I moved onto Neal Asher's Polity universe books. Very good reads.

did anyone read Transition?

I read it last year too, couldn't get why he didn't release it under Iain M Banks over here (in the US he did), regardless, I enjoyed it alot.

Favourite ship name has to be: Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints. Infact I think that's my favourite ship in the entire series. I also really enjoyed Excession due to the inter-mind communications.

My current favourite 'thinky' scifi book is Anathem, Neal Stephenson. Cleverer than a box of monkeys that bloke.

Never really got on with the Iain M Banks books, though all were well written and intelligent, the The Algebraist was the last one I read. Might have to go back for another go now.

if you like M

id reccomend
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Molgrips - did you get the reference at the end to the characters name??

Spoiler alert! Sort of.

That was a brilliant last line. And it provided closure to a previous story which is something Banks did before with The Bridge and Complicity.

Of the Culture novels, Player of Games is a good start and not too spaceshippy. Or Inversions. But that's not a fair example of a Culture novel.

Yeah and don't be scared of the spaceships. They're not like spaceships in other books 🙂

I wanna be an Abominator-class picket ship.

Don't f*ck with the Culture.

Best ship name?
[small letters] I said, I'm carrying a big stick [/small letters]
Just finished Surface Detail, very good. Look to Windward was also good.

I want to join the Culture. If a GSV stopped by Earth tomorrow I'd be there.

i quite liked the revelation series, but hamilton's 'epic' left me cold. i trudged all the way through the trilogy but found it difficult to care about any of the characters at all.

I want to join the Culture. If a GSV stopped by Earth tomorrow I'd be there.

Me too. Didn't they come in the late 70's?

Did they?

That was the Vogons.

No they came in the late 70's. See 'The State of the Art'. They decided to leave us to it. But the Culture ship did get a request played on Radio 3.

Me too. Didn't they come in the late 70's?

[EDIT: Too slow..]

hamilton's 'epic' left me cold

Order placed. I went for Consider Phlebas.

I found Matter really hard to get into and gave up but love the others I've read. Feersum endjinn is amazing.

I love the sense of scale he creates and uses, amazing.

bigjim - Member
I found Matter really hard to get into and gave up

Matter took ages to get going. The end was exciting but it's not my favourite.

Look to Windward was good. Really good subject matter. Dealing with loss and grief etc.

I've read pretty much all of his books (including Raw Spirit) and pretty much liked them all. I think Excession is my favourite though.

Favourite culture ship name is either "Ultimate Ship The Second" or "Demented But Determined".

the one about the chair is the best, forget what its called

the one about the chair is the best, forget what its called

Use of Weapons.

molgrips - Member

Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints was probably the coolest ship, regardless of name.

Another recommendation for transition.

I'd day it's an "M" book even though it was Iain Banks. Most accessible of his space shippy stuff ive read. Just don't ask me to explain what the hell it was about!

For Banks fans (with or without the M) who are also interested in Whisky his book Raw Spirit is also rather good.

I found it rather expensive also as he wrote about the different whisky's he tried with such passion I wanted to try them too.

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My missus's ladies book club are meeting at our house tonight and SWMBO wants me to recommend then a sci-fi book. So which Ian M. Banks should it be? I'm thinking perhaps Against a Dark Background, especially as the main character is a women.

Nearly finished Consider Phlebas. Enjoying it a lot.

epicsteve - Member
My missus's ladies book club are meeting at our house tonight and SWMBO wants me to recommend then a sci-fi book. So which Ian M. Banks should it be? I'm thinking perhaps Against a Dark Background,

Personally, I would not recommend Banks for a first foray into Sci Fi - they are amazing books and Look to Windward stunned me for an hour or so... It was incredible! If I had to, it would be "Against a Dark Background" - dark and gritty with a female lead character.

For those that are new to Sci Fi - I would recommend something a bit lighter and accessible like "The Windup Girl" by Paolo Bacigalupi as an easier entry.

Rysz.

in the middle of surface detail and it pretty freaking good so far.
I may go as far as to say the his best yet!

My missus's ladies book club are meeting at our house tonight and SWMBO wants me to recommend then a sci-fi book. So which Ian M. Banks should it be? I'm thinking perhaps Against a Dark Background, especially as the main character is a women.

Surely 'The Time Traveler's Wife' 😆 for the girls.

If you've read all the non-Ms then the Bridge and Walking on Glass are pretty scifi-ish anyway. Inversions is the least sci-fi of the Ms but hey, also one of the least good I reckon.

But then I reckon you should go direct to Consider Phlebeas, spaceships and massive train sets and really [i]enormous[/i] shipwrecks etc all being awesome 😉

But the Culture ship did get a request played on Radio 3.

IIRC they [i]didn't[/i] get it played.

Yes, just googled it

Also while I'd been away, the ship had sent a request on a postcard to the BBC's World Service, asking for 'Mr David Bowie's "Space Oddity" for the good ship Arbitrary and all who sail in her.' (This from a machine that could have swamped Earth's entire electro-magnetic spectrum with whatever the hell it wanted from somewhere beyond Betelgeuse.) It didn't get the request played. The ship thought this was hilarious.

p.s. did we all miss this????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hv1dz

as for a book club... I dunno. Lots of (almost all?) of the books feature a female protagonist. Maybe [i]Excession[/i], but [i]Against a Dark Background[/i] is a safe choice despite being non-Culture.

I'm not sure I'd chose Iain M Banks though.

+1 for starting with The Use of Weapons - the first book of his that I read and it blew me away. Especially the bit with the chair...

Currently reading the algebraist (which I will resume doing as soon as I stop browsing STW) Pretty good, not as good as some of his other stuff but I like it. Keep missing important plot items, seem like just usual none essential extra details then 5 chapters later it's revealed as pretty bloody significant.

Surface detail has a woman (well, girl) in it and deals with some gender issues, but it is somewhat grim in places for a book club. Although I didn't find the Hell stuff particularly upsetting at all since it was dealt with very evenly and matter-of-factly. A bit like looking at a Dante painting in a gallery.

Look to Windward is my favourite I think. Though I haven't finished Use of Weapons yet, it's getting some good reviews from you lot, and I am enjoying it so far.

They are fairly hard going in some places though, as others have mentioned I probably wouldn't make them my first foray into Sci-Fi.

Favourite ship names:

-Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
-You Naughty Monsters
-Prosthetic Conscience
-Experiencing a Significant Gravitas Shortfall
-Pure Big Mad Boat Man

Me, I liked Ultimate Ship 2.