[Closed] I need to know about white wine....

viognier

expand please?

white zinfendell is awesome.........
but is a rose.

My preferred white tipple is a Louis Michel Montée de Tonnerre Premiere Cru Chablis. Chardonnay grapes, but not that naff footballer's wives version of Chardonnay. Deliciously light and crisp, simply stunning.

Although, the good people at Caviste have recently got me very much interested in Saint Romain, a little way up the valley from Chablis, less fashionable, but deliciously clean stuff.

as a non-drinker who used to work in an off-license I would recommend whichever one I liked the picture most - not so helpful - used to recommend the one with a bike on a lot and the one with a technicolour frog - no one came back to say my choices were sh!t...

Good call by ton.

Frascati's cheap, light and easy drinking - if you like Pinot Grigio, it'd be worth trying

like you im not a big fan of white wine but love the red stuff especially rioja

viognier (not sure about spelling) is a grape variety sometimes combined with others that imho makes a tasty white

Listen to the Captain my dear chap, he knows his wine clearly. I second his choice of Chablis (but mine had Premiere Cru on the label). I also like Muscadet and Sancere (when I worked behind a bar in a posh reataurant I drunk silly quantities), and white port (but don't tell wife, please).

try and avoid buying "by the grape", it's a terrible British habit.

Some grape varities do well in certain terroirs where others are awful and vice versa.

Pinot Grigio is also known as Pinot Gris in Alsace.

The connundrum with wine is that below a certain pricepoint there is drinkableish wine and there is absolute rot - alcoholic grape juice people drink with determination, not adoration.

Jacobs creek and most other massive volume producers gernally fall into the former. That is the power of chemically controlled wines: consistency.

My best advice is pay no less than £6 or £7 for a bottle of wine. And preferrably £10+.

Since youre not a big wine drinker, it shouldnt cost you a lot, but it will be far more enjoyable.

As reference, I buy my wine from the producers from anything between €7 and €18 a bottle. The same wines, if available in the UK would be priced between £15 and £50.
I also buy drinkable splosh for around €3-5 a bottle, but remember, in France the duty on the bottle is 4p. In the UK it is £1.44p.

i have a lot of terrible habits didn't realize this was one - but grape variety is probably the biggest factor in my choice of wine

Normally I go shopping and check what's on a good offer. During my college days I knew all the £2.99 wines at my local supermarket. Some were really good, some needed more than a bottle to become tasty (you'll notice the more you've had, the tastier the wine becomes; if doubts aris, drink more).

Sorry. Didnt mean to sound quite so snobbish.

What I meant was that people go into bars or offies and buy a bottle of "chardonnay" or "shiraz" with no thought as to what on earth they are buying.

So much goes into the formation of the wine, and grape variety, IMO, only makes up 30-40% of that. The remainder being the terroir (or soil/geology type), AOC restrictions (if relevant), presence or absence of oaking, the summer's weather, juice yield, blending (if relevant) etc etc.

used to recommend the one with a bike on a lot

Cono Sur brand? I don't know much about wines, but they do a Chilean Pinot Noir, which I've enjoyed a good few times.

I can drink a reasonable red wine, around the £5-8 mark (that's probbly no good for some on here; they'd spend as much as a new stem would cost, per bottle! 😉 ), but I find the only whites I like tend to be more spensive, hence, I stick to red. Well, beer, if the truth be told. You can always rely on beer.

Mmmm....beer.....

Capt - he's hardly going to go from three for a tenner Aussie vat up to £30 a bottle Burgundy.

Try and spend about a fiver a bottle to see big increases in quality. Very roughly, if you think on a £3.30 bottle stuff there's: 45p VAT, £1.61 duty and 80p retailer margin. That leaves 45p for the importer, the cost of the bottle, labelling, shipping - oh, and the juice... Duty kills the value on cheap wine so an extra £1.50 a bottle will get you juice worth ten times the cost...

I'm not a fan of generalisations, but for now if you don't like cats pee, then stay clear of sauvignon blanc. There's not much value out there right now with currency, but South African and South American wines are holding up well on exchange rates at the fiver mark...

Don't get too hung up on grape variety either. Saying you like chardonnay is like saying you like steel frames - one persons version can be significantly better than another, even within a small wine growing sub-region.

Oddbins continue to have decent staff. Get into one and tell em you're starting off, tell them your budget and listen to what they have to recommend...

Don't get too hung up on grape variety either. Saying you like chardonnay is like saying you like steel frames - one persons version can be significantly better than another, even within a small wine growing sub-region.

very nicely put, IATR

I can't respond to that Stoner. I vowed never to speak to you on here after seeing your thread about your month in France.

Not. Envious. At. All.

PS - IMO Burgundy is an extraordinary AOC.

Too much rubbish wine on too rich a soil, and only the upper chalky, rocky parts producing anything drinkable, and then at an extortionate price. Most AOCs can produce drinkable wine around the €6-8 mark. In Burgundy, anything less than €13+ is awful.

🙂
IATR, you're welcome to come round for a wine tasting...

I'm a big fan of muscadet (sur lie). Nice (very) slight sparkle to it, light, goes well with fish and sitting in the garden.

atlaz - you might also like the some of the Vallais wines as well as Vino Verde from portugal then. They are both "fondant".

FURTHER INFO Thanks all so far.

As far as reds go I love Spanish reds, Rioja's Tempranillo's Garnache , Crianza's, Valdepeñas etc but have found I prefer 8-10 quid bottles after a very brief 20-30 quid exploration.

Will white wine work the same? if find the country / broad grape variety and price point?

Yeah, I can just imagine: Oh look, a photo album - I thought I'd put that one away...

😉

Honestly Luke, go to Oddbins with £50 and ask for a mixed, varied case so you can explore a bit.

I always say Oddbins cause the staff are really friendly and normally know a bargain when they see one. They're practically working students...

Will white wine work the same? if find the country / broad grape variety and price point?

One of the best bits about Spanish wine is the Rioja AOC whcih proscribes the amount of time that a wine must spend in oak and then in bottle in the cellar to earn a designation: Crianza, reserva, grande reserva.

But the tempranillo/grenache respond well to sun and Oak barrels and produce a fairly predictably drinkable wine IMO (in fact in many restaurants I will choose a Rioja AOC over anythng else, simply because it is predictable)

Why dont you start with just a region, say, Loire: Tourraine, Vouvray and Sancerre (moving eastwards and pricewards 🙂 ). Read about it and test it.[b]

if i had a bottle of anything in the house i'd be having a glass by now

but i'm being "good" this week 🙁

Never run out of wine... 🙂

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get in to your nearest oddbins or majestic and find out when their next tasting is. Attend that as it will give you the chance to try a good spread of grape varieties, usually different countries of origin and a spread of costs. Then decide what you like, not what everyone suggests. It's such a personal thing that you could spend a long time and a lot of money following up on everyone's suggestions.

And don't be put off by wine snobs, doesn't matter where it's from or what it costs. If you like it that's all that matters.

I'd also suggest joining a wine club. Great bargains to be had as well as the chance to try some different stuff.

G

The Ned, Sauvingion Blanc from Marlborough New Zealand is all you need to know, get to your local Waitrose and puchase some tomorrow.

P.S. Lidl also do a passable Sauv Blanc as well for £3.99, dont knock it till you've tried it 😯 . I always go for a New Zealand Sauv Blanc from the Marlborough region and never seem to go wrong 😀

I'm already in Laithwaites for my wine, great lot.

Might try exploring whites like I did the reds a 8 years ago.

selective perception stoner but the first thing i noticed in that photo was the gas meter

impressive cellar!

Yes, lots of good advice here. Cheap red is generally more drinkable than cheap white, and it's hard to see the sense in spending much less than a fiver a bottle for reasons others have gone into.

I love my local Oddbins (well, local to work) - great staff, not had a bad bottle from them yet and plenty of good advice along the lines of "if you like this, try that". Majestic are good as well, but only sell wine by the case so it's more of a commitment and less of a "pop in at lunchtime and see what's what".

Another idea is to get hold of Oz Clarke's annual "250 best wines" book - had some scorchers from there over the past 6 months.

CHL - Ive used Laithwaites a fair bit (love their Pigassou, have some down stairs now) but Ive yet to find a drinkable white of theirs. That is one of the problems of white wine IMO. To find one as palatable as a given red, it takes quite a bit more money.

beans - that's just sick 🙂

Literally just had a resort tonight as we came back with some wine at the weekend. So good having somewhere sensible to sort and store it.

impressive cellar!

You should see the other end 🙂
[url= http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/northmalvern/CellarProject# ]and in between[/url]

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To find one as palatable as a given red, it takes quite a bit more money.

That's what I said!

You're just copying me, and pretending to know what your talking about. I bet that's not even your cellar. Or your vayn. Or your wife and child, holiday, etc.

I bet you really live in a council flat in Brent, and work at Macros, sorting out boxes to go onto lorries....

rudeboy - you drink in the Kidd, a Smiths pub, no-one is going to take your advice on beverages now are they! 🙄

That's it Fred, give it to him! 😉

I'd second the advice of going to a tasting or two. My understanding of whisky has expanded massively since joining a club, and as a result I've gone to a few wine tastings as well. You learn a surprising amount just from comparison. They're not as snobby as you might fear either.

not sick honest i'm a gas installer

more of a buy a bottle and drink it man meself

might have stored one for a day or two once

And The Wine Society is great for 'themed' cases...

I'm with Stoner on buying in bulk and storing. Space for only 72 bottles (on racks) though 😥

rudeboy - you drink in the Kidd, a Smiths pub, no-one is going to take your advice on beverages now are they!

Don't be such a ponce. Nowt wrong with Sam Smiths, unless you like warm, flat, tasteless beer. Where do you drink, then, that's sooo much better than anywhere an urchin like me might ever be allowed into? The Fop and Dandy, Poncestershire?

CHL - one thing we've learnt is not to buy "in bulk".

Buy [i]some[/i] good wine and lay it down, testing at least a bottle each year.
and also buy some splosh for drinking within 6 months.

Previously we had committed to, say, 2, 3 or 4 cases of a wine that did well at tasting and then not drunk it in time and had to throw 1 in 2 bottles away.

At higher prices, then its not a problem, but at <€10 a lot of wine will not keep long.

Second Mr Beans on Viognier.

Would also recommend white Rioja, German or Aussie riesling, good Aussie semillion (Tim Adams springs to mind), verdeljo and rias baixas (sp?), and fiano.

I find you're more likely to get a good wine buying less fashionable grapes like these at random than you are going for chardonnay or sauv blanc - as there seems to be less mass produced dross.

If you get a taste for the sharper white wines, then give fino or manzanilla sherry a try as well. Marvellous stuff!

I am partial to Loire whites - Sancerre, Pouilly Fume, and a particular fave being [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savennières ]Savennieres[/url]

Spanish white - Albariños - are nice, too.

Generally I´m not too keen on white wine, fruity nonsense but there´s a nice Basque one called Txakoli, has a very strong flavour and an ever so slight fizz to it. Very refreshing on a hot day.

+1 for Txakoli

Occurred to me that it would also be a good name for a cat, for some reason ...

Spanish white - Albariños - are nice, too.

Ooh, that's what I meant when I typed Rias Baixas.

Big fan of Spanish whites.

Good advice on here. One recommendation - try Gewurztraminer - it's from Alsace and goes brilliantly with Chinese food. Spend at least £8 on one, and make it French - other countries' versions just don't taste the same.

If you want to go upmarket, my favourite is Chassagne Montrachet but you're looking at £30 per bottle.

I don't find Laithwaites any good for white wines. I use Virgin Wines, where I can pick and choose which wines I want and I can tailor my likes/dislikes. Drop me an email in my profile and I'll send you an invite (you'll get a voucher to spend)

Can't beat riesling, we make it sweet, medium & dry. Dry does need a year or 2 on it to open up a bit.
I love a nice lean chardy, not too flabby & over oaked.
Pinot Gris & Grigio are 2 different styles of the same grape, Alsace or Italian style.
I generally like to know the variety, to know if it's right for the region. You don't want a shiraz from Tassie, trust me on that one. We also make a tempranillo for one client 😆

DrJ - Member
I am partial to Loire whites - Sancerre, Pouilly Fume, and a particular fave being Savennieres

decent Rheingau or Mosel Riesling. the king of white grapes. extensive vineyard recommendations on request.
Alsatian Pinot Gris. Zind-Humbrecht pretty good.
Sauvignon Blanc from NZ - incredible fresh grassy flavours. Cloudy Bay and Villa Maria both delicious.
good Meursault or Chablis.

taste around and find what you like best.

almost forgot: Johannisberg and Petite Arvine du Valais. hard to find but worth the hunt. excellent as aperitifs.

[url= http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090602/twl-lethal-brew-kills-25-in-bali-police-2802f3e.html ]Just don't buy your wine from Bali.[/url]

You ever sit down in a restaraunt, get handed the wine list and have a little panic? If in doubt go straight to the Kiwi's. The chardonnay and sav blanc are always good, the reds (often Pinot Noir) are terrific but need to spend £10-12 (Oddbins prices, more in a restaraunt).

Another big vote for Rioja, great value for money and loads of fruit. Love French wine too but as per above go do some tasting at Majestic or Nicholas if you live near one. France is a big place, wines all all different and often pricey.

Fizzy stuff go treat yourself to Pol Roger......by far the best of the "standard" champagnes but still over £30 a bottle. Churchill used to down a bottle at lunch before speaking in Parliament all through WWII, bless the man.

And lastly lets hear it for an English wine, Nyetimber of Sussex produce an excellent sparkling pinot/chardonnay (ie Champagne) for £26 at Waitrose. We had it at our daughter's Christening last year, some French and Italian pals couldnt believe how good it was.

Sorry went on a bit there

I second the Nyetimber recommendation - easily as good as non-vintage champagne, and slightly cheaper. Other English wines can be variable, I liked Camel Valley but not too impressed with Three Choirs or Chapel Down sparkling.

i can't recommend anything because I never seem to remember a wine that I like - could be something to do with having an aversion to leaving a bottle with anything in it. I tend towards old world though - generally seems less alcoholic.

Anyway, other than the Oz Clark book mentioned above and going to a tasting (I was think of going to Vinopolis - or would it be better to go to Majestic/Oddbins) are there any other recommendations for getting to know wines - me and my girlfriend have just started buying quite randomly (i.e. without reading the label) and seeing if we can get any of the desciption. Although I think I need a notebook to remember it all - and the chances of leaving a wine for a year are pretty remote. Any tips?

Beware the "half-price" £3.99 stuff in the supermarkets, it's usually £3.99 wine not £8 stuff.
If you have a local independent wine merchant (spoiled here with 2 locally) use them for tasting and knowledge.
Can third (or is it fourth) voignier.
Austrian Grüner Veltliner and Grauer Burgunder are also good if you can find them (Linz Möser is only just passable).

pouilly fume is good, so is pouilly fuisse and anything from chablis... that's about as far as my knowledge of white wine goes... much prefer reds.

Kev

Sorry, but not patriotic enough to agree on Nyetimber. Tonnes of sugar to hide the boat load of acid, in the hope it might balance out. It doesn't.

Pol Roger White Foil is okay (if a bit short and malic last time I drank it) - Roederer, Taitt and Laurent-Perrier all out drink it.

[minirant] I get all antsy when people keep saying areas like Chablis or [...]Montrachet and grapes like Albarino or Sauvignon are good. I don't think it's really helpful advice to give to somebody starting off. There is a lot of good, and frankly shit, Chablis out there and so on - a village or grape on its own means nothing. Whitout realising that you could be put off a whole commune and within it some excellent wine by one or two bad examples from poor producers.

You'll get more reliable hits from producer recommendations (and although I know there's variability here too, it's a better place to start). [/minirant]

Ahem, all in my opinion - obviously... 😉

EDIT: I sound a bit of an arse there. If you like Nyetimber then great (or Pol for that matter). It's all about opinions...

Unless you ride a Marin. I which case you're just wrong.

I get all antsy when people keep saying areas like Chablis or [...]Montrachet and grapes like Albarino or Sauvignon are good.

You're right, but sort of missing the point that the OP asked for some broad pointers.

Perhaps it would be better to recommend him specific wines, especially if he told us which shops he could get to?

I lived just outside Dijon for four years and the gave me an appreciation for fine wines. My wallet is a lot lighter than before 😥

If I may intrude in this conversation of quality wines, I signed up to Nakedwines, and the bottles I drank were pretty good, certainly a lot better than the "top shelf in tesco's" offerings, with all these forums posts, I wondered why nakedwines were not mentioned...

I have the wine delivered to my friends photography studio, so don't have any details of grape/bottle/producer etc - a red called Lula was pretty nice, if a little thin.

Thank's to all for the advice on producer/grape/geographical etc etc, most appreciated 😉

jt

You're right, but sort of missing the point that the OP asked for some broad pointers.

I know where you're coming from, but saying something completely general like try chardonnay, viognier, Sancerre, Loire etc is about as useful as saying, 'try anything, some is good, some is not'. It doesn't exactly narrow it down so I'm not sure it serves any purpose.

A good mate of mine hated Sancerre because all she ever bought was the ropey co-operative juice with a fancy label, which was only ever bought when it was on offer in Tesco. She was adamant that she didn't like Sancerre because of it so I took round some Henri Bourgeois 'Etienne Henri', about as different as you can imagine (oak fermented). She hated that as well (!) but would never have believed it was from Sancerre... Completely different beast.

As some have done, I think it's more helpful to suggest a producer as a starting point. Although I still think a mixed case from Oddbins or good local wine shop could be a better place to start.

To clarify [url= http://www.winesofinterest.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?RANDOM=NETQUOTEVAR%3ARANDOM&PAGE=SEARCH&TB=A&PR=-1&S_COUNTRY10_0=&S_CATEGORY0_1=&S_TYPE10_2=&S_GRAPE0_3=Viognier&S_VINTAGE0_4=&S_OTHER0_5=&ACTION=Search ]number 1 or 2[/url] Voignier are good. Younger is better with this variety as it loses something with age (not so bright).

Txakoli. Fantastic stuff! Very dry and refreshing after a hot day on the bike.