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Confused. Who is asking you to spend money and why?
Can you not just ask them to kindly brick it back up and get out of your property...?
Of maybe you could ask them for money... they could rent the extra space off you.
They seem to think that 'if I do something' it'll stop flooding. Chances are it'll pop up elsewhere. Maybe make there's worse.
I'm just spouting a bit really.
First step is to find out for sure who owns it.
I'd say if you want to sort my cellar out crack on. At your expense
This is slow.
Found the plans the developer used, it shows the small vault under my place accessed through the neighbours 'proper' cellar
It says steps on the plans where the two join. However the developer sealed it up and boarded over the lot. So basically hid it.
Rather strangely they put a fluorescent light in there?
Weird and annoying. If it was under my floor I could do something, but it's under my foundations.
Solicitors Monday I think.
We built an extension that crossed some ancient water course and caused neighbours cellar to flood. It was obvious and immediate, so we paid for a sump pump installed in their cellar, all happy.
Just you owning a cellar doesn’t make you responsible for anything, and it could be the development of the buildings that has caused it, or if it’s always flooded then that’s that.
I wouldn’t spend money on a lawyer unless they do. They need to drop a pump in at their cost and stop whining.
I worked with a guy in Sweden who literally had a cellar blown out of the rock his house was built on. Real expensive, real explosives but an amazing project. It featured on some kind of Swedish Grand Designs type program, I told him I would have just moved!
Who turned a cellar into dwelling space?
They did.
In what way are you responsible for the cellars not being suitable for conversion to dwelling space?
Zero.
Er..don't want to sound like the boring practical one but first job surely is determine where the water is getting in?
Ok, now that's out of the way, it's probably normal to check old pubs for basements, presumably the door is long gone, lets go with that, first job is examine around the bottom of the outside wall, clear any built up garden from the foundation and make sure the ground level is below vents etc. I once viewed a house with horrific damp problems, guy selling it had split up from his wife over it, they had spend £50k renovating it and not noticed that someone had concreted over the drain and right up to air brick level, every time it rained his house filled up with water, it even had a broken downpipe to help fill it up quicker, 2 hours with a Kango hammer and a wheel barrow was all it needed.
Might be beer down there, or stuff, basements always have cool old stuff.
basements always have cool old stuff.
Don’t think Fred West’s did.
"Don’t think Fred West’s did"
Depends on your point of view, Fred thought it had cool stuff
Place must have been minging, I put a bit of chicken in the food waste bin once, that was enough for me, just not cut out for the whole serial killer thing.
Problem is my neighbour is ####ing dim. In her last email, she asks why I can't simply put a ladder down there.
That means digging a tunnel down then under the foundations, through the vault/cellar and installing a pump after making it all safe. She is a bit annoyed I've not simply done this!
On top of that it's grade 2 listed, she doesn't seem to understand you can't even paint the place a slightly different colour.
I'm sort of interested in how they divided up the freehold. It was a pub so one freehold, developed into four houses each with freehold.
First I can't believe a vault/cellar could be simply hidden then not shown on my deeds.
We looked at a house for sale in Matlock that literally had a cavern entrance in the garden. Not a small cave, the sort of cavern people go into with helmets, ropes and lights.
The previous owners had allowed some sort of permissive access, which sounded like a legal nightmare to me! 🙂
Not a cave system, but a roof. But what a roof. When I was a student at Univ College Durham, the main building for the college is Durham Castle, which has student rooms (I still can't believe I lived for a year in Durham Castle)
All the rooms were different and some had 'features' that when you bid for the room on the allocations list in your third year you were made aware of by the previous occupant. The feature on mine was a small window which led out onto the roof of the castle, officially as a fire escape and absolutely and definitely not to be used for sitting out on on summer evenings after dark, or sunbathing. Penalty being expelled, probably, but I think a bit of a blind eye was turned.
The room was well known for this feature so it was a relatively common occurrence for my door to be knocked on and someone asking if they could climb over my desk and out of the window. If you couldn't live with that you shouldn't have taken the room basically. It was OK in the day time, and I got to meet lots of people from college as a result. Evenings could be a bit tiresome but it was just a thing, I used to let people out but ask them to be quiet when they came back through and I'd just go back to bed.
Ah ha.
Think I've found a covenant. It's a bit legalese, but it looks like we all have the right within reason to enter adjoining property to gain access to repair and maintain our properties. And it mentions foundations.
So could I read that as being able to access their cellar so I can walk into mine and switch on a sump pump. They have an external cellar hatch out of which the water could be pumped?
Tell them you want access to fill it with concrete if it's your property
Was a thought
Bit baffled as to why you're still considering paying for a sump pump - you've stated that your bit isn't the source of the flooding. Even if it is, surely it's up to them to install a pump, or resurrect the original system which you mentioned?
Ah ha.
Think I’ve found a covenant. It’s a bit legalese, but it looks like we all have the right within reason to enter adjoining property to gain access to repair and maintain our properties. And it mentions foundations.So could I read that as being able to access their cellar so I can walk into mine and switch on a sump pump. They have an external cellar hatch out of which the water could be pumped?
I'm a bit baffled, how do you know there is water in the basement if you have not been in it? then further bafflement..if you got contractors in to deal with anything in the basement they would have to gain access wherever it is, via neighbour or whatever anyway, it's quite normal.
But why can't you just open your floor and stick a torch/ladder down? if you have floor boards just run a saw across 4, then same again to form a square, and lift those out, you can stick them back in after.
Also a pump will only remove lying water, you still need to stop the water coming in, in most cases this would be an emergency.
It’s not under his floor, it’s under the ground.
Surely if you have no direct access and would have to dig through several feet of earth to reach the "cavern" then it's not yours.
That's like saying a mineshaft under your house is your responsibility.
It's been blocked up and only access is from next door you had no knowledge of it and it's not in your deeds then I can't see how it's your responsibility.
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If you don't have access to something is it yours? has to be in title deeds?
If it is yours, and your responsibility, you will have legal access, this will be in your deeds(terms and conditions)
If they 'boarded it up' is the boarded up bit in your house?
If it's under the ground(I'm not clear on the 'under the ground/boarded up thing) and you don't have access in your deeds it's not yours.
But who's is it, did the developer perhaps just try to lose it? because it had dampness issues from an old hard ground foundation and they didn't want to spend on a concrete skin?
Fascinating stuff, any pictures?
If it was under my floor I could do something, but it’s under my foundations.
Trying to unravel this, I have some building knowledge, a cellar is part of the foundations, if it were under the foundations you have a cave..or something.
It's quite normal to have a cellar that is accessible via an adjoining house/part of house/flat, bit like shared attic space in a two story house..you have to go into the upstairs house to access what is effectively your shared plumbing, roof and so on, this will be stated clearly in your deeds, I think you say it is.
If there is a hatch you can stick a hose out of can you not just access it from that?
Problem is my neighbour is ####ing dim. In her last email, she asks why I can’t simply put a ladder down there.
the problem is you are communicating with your next door neighbour by email.
Found out a few things.
Both a specialist contractor and surveyor who specialises in this have basically said not to worry.
Any water in there won't effect the building.
It's so old (early 1800's) that it would never meet the regulations that would make it water tight.
And that is in fact quite possible it is coming in through my neighbours anyway.
They have the old beer barrel hatch outside. And the previous owner said that it leaked in heavy rain. And the water ran down the chute into gullies in the floor and might be diverted into the space under mine.
It was bricked up by the developer as it was dry and technically a vented space
If my neighbour wants to turn it into a dwelling area it will be a very long winded and expensive process.
Finally (the flood) that she though was due to ingress from this little space, was in fact a burst main and was dealt with by the water board and just a one off.
All that remains is that the solicitor sorts the legal/access situation out.
Which is good news as I want to have fun repairing the sash windows, and bringing up the standard of the lead flashing.
if it were under the foundations you have a cave
Pubs have cellars.
Pubs have cellars.
Under the building, not under the ground or foundations, basements/cellars are part of the building.
Which is good news as I want to have fun repairing the sash windows, and bringing up the standard of the lead flashing.
You have sash windows and lead flashing in your cellar??
not under the ground or foundations
You might be thinking of a basement. A room, under a pub, for keeping drinks at the right temperatures, is a cellar, regardless.
EDIT: have you edited your post to say cellar/basement?. They’re not the same thing (although of course a room/space can be both).
And the previous owner said that it leaked in heavy rain. And the water ran down the chute into gullies in the floor and might be diverted into the space under mine.
No one thought to raise the hatch level to stop water running in?
You might be thinking of a basement. A room, under a pub, for keeping drinks at the right temperatures, is a cellar, regardless.
I can only imagine what the OP describes, which is a hatch at ground level into a space below the ground floor, which tells me the top of the basement/cellar/whatever is below the floor.
More to the point… if it’s not a cellar… what is it?!? What else do you call the room under a house that used to be a pub? “Void beneath the building previously a pub?” Or something catchier…?
It might be time for a beer…
More to the point… if it’s not a cellar… what is it?!? What else do you call the room under a house that used to be a pub? “Void beneath the building previously a pub?” Or something catchier…?
I'd call it 'my beer cellar', get access clarified, raise the level of the hatch, check the main and put a dehumidifier in for a week, then make a set of stairs, a bar and a sofa, and have the local brewery deliver a barrel of beer to celebrate the reopening.
Alternately sell it to the neighbour that has access, but I think there is more to the access story yet to come.
Pubs have cellars.
Under the building, not under the ground or foundations, basements/cellars are part of the building.
Pubs in Nottingham are possibly an exception
The Nottingham pub caves rule. I've been in two of 'em.
Pubs in Nottingham are possibly an exception
That is very cool, there must be loads of stuff like this under city buildings.