[Closed] I feel like the UK is going down the pan?

Quite depressing really, especially, considering I myself would be more than happy to pay an extra 2p income tax to have A1 services.

What you doing about it then?

You are Peter Hitchens and I claim my £5.

Good god the roads whatever happens to it..no stretch of road in my city without potholes...even M6 from J1 to J4 crikey.. I cannot remember ladt time its been this bad

It's just what 'they' want you to think. There's plenty of money knocking about, it's just a matter of priorities.

I suggest you take your head out of your arse and go do some travelling around poorer parts of the world and then tell us if you feel the same.

I appreciate the tories are on a mission to cut the deficit

Shame they're actually borrowing more money than ever.

I hope the roads get really shockingly bad. Will make my commute on the MTB more interesting.

I appreciate the tories are on a mission to cut the deficit

They aren't, really. If you think they wouldn't borrow as much money as they wanted to fund some scheme they liked, you're deluded.

Tories by definition favour small government, businesses, and independent enterprise, because it means economic growth which means £££. This means that fundamentally they want us to fund our own healthcare by paying private companies out of our own insurance policies.

The deficit thing is an excuse to push the country down that road.

Now, IMO, the problem with that attitude is that those with tons of money can crap all over those without, and there's no safety net. And the Tories don't care much.

I think it just a matter of perspective. I would much rather live in 2016 Britan than 1970s Britan - average lifestyles have improved massively

No, it is crap. I've done the said travelling round the world and yes, this country sucks balls.

What can we do about it? Stop voting Tory for a start. Then, start paying more attention to local politics and perhaps even standing for local election yourself.

There's enough decent people left to take a stand and the crappy people are all braindead so won't put up much of a fight if we try to take control.

In 1970's Britain my dad with an average paid job could buy a house at 20 years old. I still can't afford one now in my 40's.

The infrastructure is under severe challenges. A road network that is busier than ever and set to get busier with severe restrictions on building new roads meaning roads are having to cope with more traffic volume than they were ever intended to carry. An NHS that is dealing with more and more people and an ever widening array of conditions, alot of them self inflicted by people themselves and their lifestyle choices, not to mention the unknown number of people coming to this country taking advantage of the system, but not contributing to it and an old complicated and bureaucratic system that is really out of date with modern life, run by people that have basically been rejected from the private sector (not doctors and nurses!!)

I don't doubt most people would be happy to pay a little more if we were sure that that would fix it all forever, but it won't, it will just keep demanding more and more and more money. Also i'm not happy for a penny of taxpayers money to be wasted. Public services have no right or excuse to operate in an inefficient manner, they should be every bit as cost conscious with a culture of driving efficiency as any other Private organisation that has to answer to shareholders. Taxpayers money is precious and every penny has to be put to good use.

It isn't easy. Us armchair politicians tapping away on forums like this think it is so easy to fix and wonder what politicians and governments are messing about at. But the reality is these things are very complicated with knock on effects and unintended consequences. It is no surprise that when opposition parties get into government they often do U-turns on alot of the policies they were voted in on, because as soon as they get into government and the realisation hits them of the difficulties in alot of these issues, they realise that their idealogical policies are just not able to be implemented as they'd like. Even the holier-than-though Jeremy Corbyn is unto it.

I don't care what our nations debt is, but I do worry about the deficit. Carrying debt is fine you're earning more than you're spending, but carrying debt and spending more than you're earning is a toxic combination and just idiotic. For crying out loud we're borrowing money to service debts. It's utter lunacy. We need to get a grip.

We're doing alot better than most other countries out there. But its vary precarious. When I think things are going tits up I remember this documentary and things don't seem quite as bad:-

Can someone please explain Wokingham borough council to me?

Tory, cut them in half they'd bleed (I think, they might be lizzards) blue.

We have a massive road building program.
They're putting up council tax by 2% to pay for adult social care, and they refuse to cut bin collections to fortnightly.

It's almost like some sort of socialist, Keynesian utopia!

They are trying their very best with the NHS.. to not make targets, cut funding, grind it into the ground (or give that impression).. then it can be miraculously saved by selling to private companies. Theres lots of money to be made from ill people as we all get ill / sick / die etc. Somehow making money from it will make it all better. Road maintenance is one of those things that funding literally gets kicked down the road.. it will become the next governments problem

In 1970's Britain my dad with an average paid job could buy a house at 20 years old. I still can't afford one now in my 40's.

Did he have a computer, phone, big TV, two new cars and go on two holiday's a year etc... People's priorities tend to be different now.

good paper here

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v532/n7598/full/nature17159.html

http://www.livescience.com/54408-human-sacrifice-social-inequality.html

reckons that sacrifices of the weak:children, slaves, POWs by the elites help re-enforce the class system as our societies develop

I think its for that the reason that the tories and their meeja chums love punishing the weakest in society; the disabled, refugees, the working poor etc it reminds everyone of their place

It really isn't that crap. NHS is better than it ever was, safety net is better, power is mostly consistently working, food is cheap and plentiful, loads of choice in the shops, pollution at its lowest level for years, the list could go on.

Is it 100% perfect of course not. Can we and that's a collective we, do better, of course. But stop getting all sulky and probably wasting time on social media and do something to make things better.

1970's Britain my dad with an average paid job could buy a house at 20 years old. I still can't afford one now in my 40's.

In the 70's my parents couldn't because of the interest rates, they had to wait until the fell a little in the 80s when they were in their 30s. I'm in my 40's and bought ours when I was in my 20's. What's your point exactly?

NHS is better than it ever wa

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/pollution-has-created-nogo-areas-in-capital-for-lung-disease-
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/10/london-worst-no2-pollution-earth

I think it all depends in what industry/type of work you do 💡
My current employer(merger pending)has to compete with Asia, China and a few other countries where they can produce the same or similar product at a price we cannot buy our raw materials. 6 management jobs go this month, our final salary pension scheme is likely to be wound up by July, we may be so,d of/de merged or whatever in the very near future, there is no overtime and other perks are being eroded all in the chase for profit(none in the past few years!)
MrsT is a civil servant(Scot Gov) = no wage rise for the past few years, pension stuffed etc
MissT is a primary teacher(Eng)and the same as above...
Tjnr however has just managed to negotiate a car and other perks having first got another job and handed in his notice. He has 2 strings to his bow, an electrical eng and a degree in structural eng.
Roads around here in D&G are the worst I have ever seen them in my 45yrs of driving.
We are getting a new hospital but like elsewhere staffing it may prove difficult especially being away from "cultural" hotspot cities and better promotion prospects.
We have some of those PFI schools!!!
A lie sure centre built at many millions now sitting redundant due to many building issues
Too many people from the South retiring into the area for cheap housing which in turn is pricing locals out of the market and free health care etc.....

Late last year when my dad was ill he was being assessed by social work as to what his needs were. When I called for a progress report having not heard anything for a few weeks I was told bluntly that there was no money for any more care of any kind. Social work are many hundreds of thousands of pounds over spent and the bill due to the elderly and kids with "difficulties/issues/homeless and disabled" are rising 😥

As for NHS, like many I'm sure you all know nurses, doctors etc. Over the past 13yrs when first my mum was hospitalised with a burst varicous vine followed by amputation of the toes on that foot, vien replacement, a post op stroke followed by 9months in hospital with various infection I can only say that the nurses like the guys I work with are doing the best they can with their hands tied behind their backs. After mum died it was dads turn to be in/out of hospital for the past 3yrs till he passed away in Dec. My main issue was with their GPs and those who companies supplying home care.

Anyone can selectively pull data out of a hat, but on wider performance the NHS now treats more people and with a bigger range of illness/issues than ever before.

As for pollution remind me how many people died from smog in London and other cities in the 50's?

Penny in income tax nets the government about £5 billion a year in receipts

so, how much difference do you think your additional £10 billion is going to make in an attempt to transform the delivery of services when total government spending is around £750 billion (and a current annual deficit of about £70 billion)?

I think the roads in the UK are pretty bloody good. Is there any objective comparative data?

You're wasting your time if you think this is all down to Tories, or Labour...

Go and have a chat to the Yanks and the Europeans and you'll find a lot of the Western World thinking the same - look at the progress being made by Le Pen in France and Trump.

Postwar growth is over - was essentially over by late 60's, hence 70's being a bit ropey economically.

Liberalisation of finance in the mid-eighties saw growth again but by early 90s governments and banks were resorting to credit/debt growth to allow us to maintain living standards. They didn't tell us that they were doing this even through in retrospect it's obvious - most of the growth since then has been built on debt rather than real economic growth.

Globalisation has led to a level of competition we weren't prepared to deal with.

2008 - we all realised there was too much debt in the system to be paid back, the banks panicked and it all crashed down. QE and super-low interest rates have kept us on life support since then as the central banks and governments can't work out how to kick-start real economic growth when we have ageing populations, massive pensions and welfare liabilities and populations who're rather used to being rich and have somewhat taken their eye off the ball when it comes to being innovative and entrepreneurial...

Personally I think this is it really - don't expect much in the way of increased living standards, wage growth or economic growth for the next 20-30 years - nothing any government has done specifically, just the end of a long-term cycle of growth that was the natural result of the end of WW2 as we rebuilt our countries and the resultant baby boom and demographic dividend.

The next 25 years will not be like the last 25 years as that growth was debt-fuelled and not real growth. I'm not sure a lot of people will feel too happy about this so the mood will be sour at times. Keep your head down, avoid debt and keep a good group of friends and colleagues who can keep their head in a crisis... Oh and stay away from mainstream media - they all have their own biased political agenda at some level...

The reality of it may not be that bad... it'll just be much worse than our expectations of ever-increasing living standards.

There may be some big technological breakthrough like AI or automation or solar/wind power which somehow drives big economic growth (bit like Moore's law and computing have done) but the gains of anything like that don't seem too likely to be shared evenly across the population...

I think the 1970s were a fantastic time for the working classes compared to the horror of today.We now have eleven million people of working age not in work today.Hence the Dr Goebbels style campaign against the reserve army of labour.

g5604 ought to wander the streets a bit to see the Thatcherite shithole he voted for.A Cop even told my pal that we live in a "Dregs society".

Brooess has it.

In essence it is a lot harder to grow once you have grown up. I'm more amazed that people think thinks can just keep growing.

On the plus side food & alcohol is very cheap. 🙂 people need something to worry about, chill out grab a beer and don't panic.

I suggest you take your head out of your arse and go do some travelling around poorer parts of the [i]country[/i]
FTFY

 

1. Travel - the grass is a most peculiar shade of green elswhere

2. Send the extra 2p to Gideon, 11 Downing Street, London

3. Ignore headlines - stick to basic facts, they are less sensational

4. Get used to it. We are in for a sustained period of low growth as we very slowly emerge from gorging ourselves on debt.

De-leveraging has barely started - don't worry about austerity, that's a misnamed side show because those in power are failing to understand the type of recession we are in. They are not alone, the same thing happened in Japan. And they have had @20 years of it!

Grum, [s]cutting the deficit doesn't mean....[/s]oh forget it, if this still needs repeating, the message will never sink in.

5, almost forgot, as Freddie said, get on your bike and ride......I saw deer, pheasant, rabbits and a grass snake last night. Lovely they were......

No, it is crap. I've done the said travelling round the world and yes, this country sucks balls.

Okay where have you been that's significantly better than the UK and what made you think that?

i like to think of it in very very very simple terms, that the government is scum, theyre corrupt, and the next one will be too, theyll all waste our money in inexcusable ways, and that our only hope is for a 'common sense party'. most of us here can run our own homes, and if we're in debt try and get out of it, cut our cloth etc until we're clear. the country is just 'a big home' and anyone with a bit of common sense and integrity could run its finances better than these corrupt buffoons who are in it for themselves.

i just wish someone somewhere would create this party that the average singletracker (and man on the street) would welcome with open arms. it wont be me, id fail at getting there, im not savvy enough, but if i was up there now id make a better job of it, as would most of you, its just [i]getting there[/i]. and id explain in simple and honest terms why id be doing what im doing. honest dave instead of dodgy dave 😉

like i said, very very simple ideology 🙂

6,367 children started reception class underweight - up 16% on 2012 figures
7,663 children started their final year of primary school underweight - up 15% since 2012
In addition, House of Commons Library analysis of the most recent data suggested that more than half a million under-fives were anaemic in 2011, the highest level in 20 years.
The report also sets out evidence from a small scale study in Birkenhead showing more than a fifth of pupils in some schools arrive hungry, with some complaining of "persistent hunger".
There is a not enough data to build a full picture, says the report, but there is evidence to suggest "too many children have hunger as their most constant companion".
In "maybe most" of these families, parents do not have sufficient income properly to feed their children, say the MPs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36046983

See my earlier post about the elite sacrificing the weakest

Always the objective comments of "you should travel around the world ..", but that wasn't the point of the post. Of course I am aware that life in other countries is much, much worse, but you are missing the point.

As a western democracy that has had things pretty good in the past, my post was to try and instill some topical discussion as to how people envisage things will pan out in the future.

I for one hold a view that the government will continue to under fund the NHS to an extent in the hope that more people will opt to go private so as to remove the burden off the NHS.

The main issue I see is that far too many people do not take adequate care of themselves. On radio 4 today that reported a 66% increase in children having to have hospital treatment to remove rotten teeth. All of these things could be avoided.

You could argue that you get the government you deserve, which then impacts on the country.

Too many people focusing on "me, me, me" short term gains, living beyond their means, taking no responsibility for themselves or for others has resulted in governments pandering to that, rather than trying to create a cohesive society with a long term vision of the country we want to live in.

Possibly.

I for one hold a view that the government will continue to under fund the NHS to an extent in the hope that more people will [s]opt to go private[/s] go away so as to remove [s]the burden off[/s] the NHS.

Priorities, should we spend more on infrastructure or NHS or social welfare. No idea. If there was an easy answer to success then I'm pretty sure the politicians would take it. Even the experts disagree.

I'm sure that we should do something about the deficit.

The report also sets out evidence from a small scale study in Birkenhead showing more than a fifth of pupils in some schools arrive hungry, with some complaining of "persistent hunger

Kids persistently hungry? Really my that is a shock. Kids are always hungry they eat pretty much constantly.

[quote=konabunny ]I think the roads in the UK are pretty bloody good.

hahahaha good one

konabunny » I think the roads in the UK are pretty bloody good.
hahahaha good one

Have you ever been to Belgium?

konabunny » I think the roads in the UK are pretty bloody good.

hahahaha good one

You should travel more...

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3495/3732603981_d17f71b2e6.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3495/3732603981_d17f71b2e6.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/6FQz84 ]Typical road in Accra[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

Innit. Haven't seen any objective data from the "omfg roads are so bad" crowd yet

On radio 4 today that reported a 66% increase in children having to have hospital treatment to remove rotten teeth.

OP yes.

But it is a Global issue IMO, we are all at the mercy of the money God and we will dig ourselves into a hole we cannot get out of.

we have forgotten the definition perhaps?

"economy: Efficient, sparing, or conservative use"

/doom