[Closed] "I asked God to help me"

Just because it's comforting, that doesn't mean it's true.

Just because it's true, doesn't make it comforting.

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I guess that that settles this little argument. 😛

Looks like he's waiting for a second coming.

The only slightly frustrating thing about this is the amount of credit the cardiologist gets, there's not anything more he could have done that the paramedics who helped him. They get very few mentions though but that's normal, everyone knows that we only transport just check any media reports.

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Well said that man!

And yet again I'm forced to agree with Zulu-Eleven.

Well put LimboJimbo - particularly liked [i]"Maybe those of us that believe in 'live and let live' need to shout as loudly as the religious zealots and the militant atheists."[/i]

And I'm very glad to hear that Little LimboJimbo didn't end up in Limbo 8)

Has an atheist ever knocked on your door and tried to foist his non belief on you?

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to where and when these "militant atheists" have been "shouting loudly"?

....handing out leaflets on behalf of Falun Dafa/Falun Gong

I have never understood why the plight of Falun Gong in China is so comprehensively ignored by the British media and politicians. For whatever reason the persecution of Falun Gong doesn't pull the heartstrings of bourgeois guardian reading liberals in the way the Dalai Lama does.

Thanks for raising awareness of a highly neglected and yet extremely persecuted people CountZero.

Now, I am well aware of the doubtless misery and oppression that has been carried out in the name of organised religion, but I also believe that faith in all it's forms can give great comfort to many in what is for them, a cruel difficult world. To sneer and belittle that source of comfort seems to be, to me at least, somewhat inhuman.

I am not following the logic that means we accept this [s]lie[/s] utterly unproven conjecture and the misery and oppression that comes with it because some people get comfort from believing in fairies.

Glad they pulled through had something not quite as harrowing but similar with my second.
EDIT:
Good point /retort re China and other Communist regimes

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to where and when these "militant atheists" have been "shouting loudly"?

So... that'll be a no, then. 🙄

Rabid STW atheism is almost as bad as organised religion.

I believe Jaladdin Rumi the Sufi Ppoet said it best for me.

"Rabid", eh? Goodness, has it finally leapt the channel, then? Who has been bitten? I thnk we should be told.

Must be frothing at the mourth as well as doing all that militant shouting...

So... that'll be a no, then.

Actually, I was having my tea.

Perhaps shouting isn't the right expression if you want to take me literally. I suppose it's the aggressive and belittling attitude of some, particularly on here, about the personal beliefs of others. I believe that any actions should be justifiable but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

I believe that any actions should be justifiable but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

What, all beliefs?
Let's say:
All bald people are evil and should be killed.
Female genital mutilation is justified.
Paedophilia is perfectly acceptable.
A man should be allowed to beat & rape his wife.
White people are superior to any other ethnic group and the laws of our society should reflect this.

Those kind of beliefs?
They should be treated with respect should they?

....but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

You're gonna get people like Woppit frothing at the mouth with talk like that.

You've been warned.

Respect is earned, not demanded, I'm afraid.

Doubly so when it comes to beliefs, given half a chance most people will believe any old nonsense. Should we respect a belief in homeopathy over chemotherapy, Darwinism aside?

ernie_lynch - Member

You're gonna get people like Woppit frothing at the mouth with talk like that.

Wasn't there a thread about some people being angry a while back?

So we have had an atheist matins period this morning. Is the renewed, high level of activity an atheist vespers/compline? 😉

(ps, I am not left footed, just enjoying the fun here!!)

A belief is nothing more than an opinion.

It's human nature to discuss and riducule belief and opinion.
If you don't want your beliefs challenged, then don't share them with anyone.

All bald people are evil and should be killed.
Female genital mutilation is justified.
Paedophilia is perfectly acceptable.
A man should be allowed to beat & rape his wife.
White people are superior to any other ethnic group and the laws of our society should reflect this.

Whoa there! Were we not talking about religion? If I've missed a whole other part of this thread where the above was being justified then, apologies. This is generally why I limit my posts on here to trying to offer advice or weak attempts at whimsy. I realise that this is an emotive subject, but I can't imagine many would make the leap from espousing freedom of religious belief to the justification of rape.

I will clamber down off my fluffy, liberal high horse now as Silent Witness is starting.

I can't imagine many would make the leap from espousing freedom of religious belief to the justification of rape.

You don't often click on religious threads then ?

In answer to the OP, I'm not annoyed by that I'm sure the guy is equally thankful to those who he believes Gods hand guided.

When I'm not trolling atheists, ( in truth I believe them to be as bad as theists) I'm probably best described as an Agnostic or maybe a kind of Agnostic theist.

However more than that I believe fundamentally to live and let live, if this guy has this faith then great and I'm glad it helped him even though he's a bloody footballing fairy, maybe it'll change the way some of those Godless heathens that watch that stupid game week in week out in between beating each other up, think.

As to the Guy earlier in the thread that asked about near death experiences, I've had that and i have to say came away from it very enlightened, but not in any man with Beard sitting on throne with harp players surrounding him, way, one day I plan to write it all down but don't, for fear of being defined as even more of a nut job than I currently am.

I believe we need faith in something other than man made guidance, so we'd have to invent some form of after life retribution for evil bastards that would rule us. Whatever, the threads not about wether or what we believe in, it's the right of a footballer to believe he was helped by God and thousands have died to protect that right, so hardly our place to question it.

First and indeed, last time Ernie. Anyway, what tyres for for the road to Damascus?

god(note small g)is made up,read the bible and THINK for 10 seconds,you'll see 😆

derekrides - Member

However more than that I believe fundamentally to live and let live

Except of course those who fall foul of Dereks Law...........those you want to gun down in the street like you would a dog.

Still, it's nice to see that you have your empathy hat on tonight Derek.

This is generally why I limit my posts on here to trying to offer advice or weak attempts at whimsy.

If you want an honest suggestion, I'd say carry on not limiting your posts, but try not to take it personally if someone disagrees.

In this case, we're looking at reductio ad absurdum. Ie, you've made a statement that beliefs should be respected; someone has exaggerated that idea to provide examples why this shouldn't automatically be the case. It's not an attack on you, it's supposed to demonstrate (albeit in a blunt manner) why that someone would disagree.

I'm probably best described as an Agnostic or maybe a kind of Agnostic theist.

By whom?

I believe that any actions should be justifiable but beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

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[img] http://www.spuc.org.uk/images/chains/2011/nottingham01 [/img]

Your last pic made me chuckle TJ......."Women deserve better than abortion" "Hurt by abortion? Call...." Outrageous !!! 🙂

LimboJimbo - Member

......but I can't imagine many would make the leap from espousing freedom of religious belief to the justification of rape.

I didn't.

You said....

beliefs are personal and should be treated with respect.

I'm just wondering whether you mean all beliefs, or just ones relating to the supernatural?

If not all, which ones are exempt from question, analysis and ridicule?

Just interested, that's all.

ernie_lynch - Member

Your last pic made me chuckle TJ......."Women deserve better than abortion" "Hurt by abortion? Call...." Outrageous !!!

Have they got an STW logon for the chat forum yet?

I'm not taking anything personally, I was taken slightly aback by the level of absurd in the response to my albeit poorly worded statement. To clarify, my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with. Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack. Just my opinion of course.

nasty bunch of zealots determined to force their views on others

Well obviously not everyone has the same views on abortion, and not always on religious grounds - I take it you don't believe that abortion kills babies for example. But "Women deserve better than abortion" and "Hurt by abortion? Call..." can hardly be described as offensive hate-filled poison, which I assume was your intention.

I presume you didn't bother reading the banners properly as you frantically scoured Google Images for some dirt. I'm sure you could have found something rather more offensive if you had calmed down and taken a bit more time.

......my albeit poorly worded statement

It was very well worded. Don't let them make you start doubting yourself.

Nope ernie - quite calm just couldn't be bothered finding any more.

So it was just a half-arse attempt then ?

Fair enough.......made me chuckle 🙂

To clarify, my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with. Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack. Just my opinion of course.

fine so long as they keep it to themselves, Use their beliefs to ty to tellme what to do or to attack others then expect to be challenged

LimboJimbo - Member

I'm not taking anything personally, I was taken slightly aback by the level of absurd in the response to my albeit poorly worded statement. To clarify, my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with. Challenging that belief is fine, but belittling it seems to cross the line and become attack. Just my opinion of course.

Thanks for the response.

I'd be interested why you think only religious belief/opinion, as opposed to all other forms of belief, is worthy of exemption from attack?

If we are ok to belittle political, sexual and cultural beliefs, what makes religious belief any different?

TJ, I couldn't agree more there is plenty to challenge in those pictures. It seems as though all religious belief is ridiculed by some rather than the hatred some people use that belief to justify.

Jimbo, don't answer if you don't want to, but I'm seriously interested.

I've asked the above question on many occaisions, but never really had a response.

I'd be genuinely interested in your opinion.

Regards,
Pete.

I'd be interested why you think only religious belief/opinion, as opposed to all other forms of belief, is worthy of exemption from attack?

If we are ok to belittle political, sexual and cultural beliefs, what makes religious belief any different?

The problem here is with the word 'attack'.

This thread isn't about religious extremism. It started out about a very humble and down to earth guy (particularly when you consider his peers). Why should someone like that be 'attacked' without any kind of provocation?

I mean, if someone wants a fight. Get your shirt off and go for it. Fill ya boots. But is it OK to attack people for their religious, sexual or cultural beliefs? If it's not to the detriment of those around them then I don't think it is. Is it? They are open to discussion, certainly. But not attack.

my point was that although organised religion has plenty to answer for, a individuals personal religious belief should be respected even if disagreed with

And I would disagree with that. I think an individual's religious belief perhaps should be ignored, tolerated, or otherwise taken into account in some circumstances, but 'respected'? No. A belief in a god or gods commands no more respect than a belief in homeopathy or any other man-made fiction. Why should it?

If my mate Dave thinks he's Napoleon, should I respect that belief, or should I give him a bunch of pictures of diminutive French dictators and a mirror? If he persists in his belief, should I respect that or should I take the proverbial? (See my comments about humour earlier in this thread)

Butcher > well said, sir.

... so, if God made Jesus... who made God?