[Closed] "I am a practising member of the Church of England and so forth"

binners - Member
Since we're talking in wide brush strokes, I've presented another view above.
I'm not saying they all christians are small-minded and mean-spirited. Just some. Same as with any other section of society. I'm just saying that assuming a belief in god indicates any kind of adherence to actual christian values, as allegedly decreed by the beardy one (God, not Jeremy Corbyn) is like saying that all ginger people are inherently nicer, or that everyone called Colin is a ****!

See above, in christian cicrles (I don't know if other religions have the same concept), free will places the blame directly on the individual and exempts god from jail time! 😆

I'm just pointing out why these threads go in circles, God can't be disproven or proven, and people try one way or the other to convince people of the impossible.

May is not a religious fundamentalist, imo.

Someone doing stuff because "God told them to" pretty much meets the definition IMO. People would certainly be quick to apply it to a middle eastern leader saying the same.

5thElefant - Member
God can't be disproven or proven

Much like unicorns and the tooth fairy.

I'm not disagreeing, but the simple fact is you can't disprove them, particularly to believers. So discussion of whether they actually exist or not isn't really worth discussing. You're as well focusing energy on other points of discussion that will lead people to come to their own conclusions, rather going for the full on attack of, your god doesn't exist and you're a fool!

I'm not disagreeing, but the simple fact is you can't disprove them, so discussion of whether they actually exist or not isn't really worth discussing.

Plus the tricky problem of proving a negative...

I'm not disagreeing, but the simple fact is you can't disprove them, particularly to believers. So discussion of whether they actually exist or not isn't really worth discussing.

ransos - Member
Someone doing stuff because "God told them to" pretty much meets the definition IMO. People would certainly be quick to apply it to a middle eastern leader saying the same.

May isn't incapable of that, imo.

You're all fools,being sidetracked by religion while the lizards in their subterranean caves get one step closer,and its not a YMCA tribute act they are forming!! Wake up fools!!! (oh and has anyone a pair of small kneepads they want to get rid of,see my wanted ad,thanks awfully.Any way as you were,religion boo, yay,i'm right,no i'm right etc.

If you [b]know[/b] you are…

Anyone who says they [b]know[/b] anything scares me. It's how people deal with unknowables that measures their greatness.

If they try to reduce everything to the known/knowable, you know they have no greatness whatsoever.

IMO.

Depends if they are incapable of applying logic and tempering their instructions with free will and some critical thought.

May isn't incapable of that, imo.

If you do something because God tells you to, then it's very difficult to see how critical thought has entered the equation.

8 pages?

Double figures I reckon.

God can't be disproven or proven
Much like unicorns and the tooth fairy.

That's not true though, is it. It's impossible to disprove, but theoretically at least you can readily prove all of those things. We just haven't managed it yet.

you can make some assumptions about people who believe in unicorns.

Unicorns do exist; they're fat and grey and we call them rhinos.

Ah well.. I tried. Have fun.

[i]*ducks out*[/i]

God loves a trier.

Seeing as you asked though,

wouldn't it be more interesting to discuss why the PM feels the need to assert her faith and her apparent belief that she is doing God's work?

I'd hazard there's two things going on here. First is the generic propensity for believers to talk about their beliefs and use it as a reason / excuse for doing what they're doing, be that good or bad. But moreover it's just another political spin, an attempt to get people on her side.

Unicorns do exist; they're fat and grey and we call them rhinos.

I'd have thought Narwhals would be their closest descendant! 😆

[img] ?1387482058[/img]

[img] [/img]

Disruptive video attack!

Read the complete works of Richard Dawkins and then come back to the debate.

I have. And pretty much everything by Paul Davies and John Gribbin as well as many other books on our understanding of the universe.

I didn't say that science was faith based. Just that there are elements of faith in it.

The key difference between faith as used by religion and science is that science uses faith to establish current wisdom only in the absence of falsifying evidence whereas religion does the same thing.

wouldn't it be more interesting to discuss why the PM feels the need to assert her faith and her apparent belief that she is doing God's work?

I'd say it's interesting that someone who is presiding over worsening conditions for the elderly, poor and the sick can claim to be Christian.

Faith or peer review?

If you do something because God tells you to, then it's very difficult to see how critical thought has entered the equation.

“I suppose there is something in terms of faith.

“I am a practising member of the Church of England and so forth, that lies behind what I do.

“It's not like I've decided to do what I'm going to do and I'm stubborn. [b]I'll think it through,[/b] have a gut instinct[b], look at the evidence,[/b] work through the arguments, because you have to think through the unintended consequences.”

In defence of May, there's what she said. Quite a bit away from a religious fundamentalist imo.

Btw, I feel the need to also clear up that I am not a believer in the tories either! 😆

I have. And pretty much everything by Paul Davies and John Gribbin as well as many other books on our understanding of the universe.

Its actually magic? This is god...

[img] [/img]

In defence of May, there's what she said. Quite a bit away from a religious fundamentalist imo.

Faith, gut-instinct and a review of the evidence are not really compatible.

ransos - Member
In defence of May, there's what she said. Quite a bit away from a religious fundamentalist imo.
Faith, gut-instinct and a review of the evidence are not really compatible.

Depends on how people use their faith. Not everyone will use it in the way you imply.

People are welcome to have faith but the guidance part is loopy. Her argument is the same as a member of ISIS , why Catholics in many places still treat abortions the way they do and why a place like Russia treats homosexuals brutually.

We don't need religion to guide us ethically and morally.

edenvalleyboy - Member
Her argument is the same as a member of ISIS

All the evidence we have is in a few quotes from the OP. And it really doesn't stack up to that conclusion.

You're using your own belief system to come up with that answer.

Depends on how people use their faith. Not everyone will use it in the way you imply.

That's true - not everyone is a fundamentalist.

I wonder how the media would take it if she'd said "I am a practising member of Islam" or "I am a practising member of the Church of the Latter Day Saints" or "I am a practising member of the Church of Scientology"?

...or "I think it's all poppycock"

Don't you lot get bored of posting the same shite over and over again?

May's faith is of no significance here. If she started making policies directly based on scripture then yeah, it would. But saying 'I talked to god and he agreed it was a good idea to put billboards on lorries telling immigrants to go home' is no different to simply having thought of it yourself.

In other words, it's just how she visualises her decision making process, I doubt it affects the conclusions. If Christianity really did affect her politics as suggested above then she'd not be quite such a nasty Tory...

“I am a practising member of the Church of England and so forth, that lies behind what I do."

Oh not this again... Did we not have enough of this last time with Blair-Bush?

"wouldn't it be more interesting to discuss why the PM feels the need to assert her faith and her apparent belief that she is doing God's work?

I'd hazard there's two things going on here. First is the generic propensity for believers to talk about their beliefs and use it as a reason / excuse for doing what they're doing, be that good or bad. But moreover it's just another political spin, an attempt to get people on her side."

Agreed.

If Christianity really did affect her politics as suggested above then she'd not be quite such a nasty Tory...

This is part of the issue. People's twisted view of scripture makes them believe their stupid, selfish, often intolerant and persecutive (Is that a word? If not, I have invented it.) actions are morally right and justified. Shame they don't apply their religious-based action approach when it comes to money lenders, being a good samaritan or turning the other cheek... Seems just a bit selectively applied.

If Christianity really did affect her politics as suggested above then she'd not be quite such a nasty Tory...

That was my thinking: if I were a Christian, I'd be distancing myself from her actions.

Yesterday, I visited a Quaker meeting house, a Roman Catholic church, a Methodist chapel, a mosque, an Anglican church, a Sikh gurdwara, and a Buddhist centre. At all of these places, the message given was of peace, tolerance and love.

Theresa May's actions, and the policies of Conservative governments, seem to be rather at odds with everything I heard yesterday.

Yesterday, I visited a Quaker meeting house, a Roman Catholic church, a Methodist chapel, a mosque, an Anglican church, a Sikh gurdwara, and a Buddhist centre. At all of these places, the message given was of peace, tolerance and love.

STW intolerance at it's worst

Yesterday, I visited a Quaker meeting house, a Roman Catholic church, a Methodist chapel, a mosque, an Anglican church, a Sikh gurdwara, and a Buddhist centre.

Some people who called themselves Christians somehow managed to persuade themselves that slavery was OK - because they're black and that's their purpose in life or something.

Not sure how being a Christian helps guide on the Brexit thing though staying in must surely be better for people globally.

BTW, those that think following a religion implies some sort of lack of intelligence are deluding themselves to help justify their position.

Yesterday, I visited a Quaker meeting house, a Roman Catholic church, a Methodist chapel, a mosque, an Anglican church, a Sikh gurdwara, and a Buddhist centre.

The relentless drudgery of the religious iconography salesman.

BTW, those that think following a religion implies some sort of lack of intelligence are deluding themselves to help justify their position.

its true that generally religion increases as IQ decreases, but there's obviously a lot more factors at play

at an international level its more about income and education really
(although intra nationally- thats just like brexit- so theres probably a healthy overlap between the 2!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

perchypanther - Member
Yesterday, I visited a Quaker meeting house, a Roman Catholic church, a Methodist chapel, a mosque, an Anglican church, a Sikh gurdwara, and a Buddhist centre.

hedging your bets?

Yesterday, I visited a Quaker meeting house, a Roman Catholic church, a Methodist chapel, a mosque, an Anglican church, a Sikh gurdwara, and a Buddhist centre

Unluckiest Jehovahs Witness ever!

Is no-one seeing any more sinister side to this?
In the present global situation, I'm not sure that it makes any sense whatsoever for a leader to identify with a particular religion, unless they are deliberately trying to be divisive..

In the present global situation, I'm not sure that it makes any sense whatsoever for a leader to identify with a particular religion, unless they are deliberately trying to be divisive..

Well now they have the snoopers charter they'll be working out the religion of everyone in the UK and starting a list........

Is no-one seeing any more sinister side to this?
In the present global situation, I'm not sure that it makes any sense whatsoever for a leader to identify with a particular religion, unless they are deliberately trying to be divisive..

CofE sinister? I always thought it was the fluffier side of religion for people who just like a sing-a-long on a sunday morning.

Don't you lot get bored of posting the same shite over and over again?

Don't you get bored of complaining about it?

saying 'I talked to god and he agreed it was a good idea to put billboards on lorries telling immigrants to go home' is no different to simply having thought of it yourself.

In and of itself you're absolutely right. However, it's not that simple; if she's claiming "god agrees with me" then it may well add additional weight to her policies with those who believe in that sort of thing. Which, y'know, is one of the points of religion, the leverage of power / authority over the masses.

In the present global situation, I'm not sure that it makes any sense whatsoever for a leader to identify with a particular religion, unless they are deliberately trying to be divisive..

Big in America, innit. I doubt very much that an openly atheist candidate would ever get voted in as President, there's a large contingent of the US that would never want to be ruled by a godless heathen.