[Closed] Huntsman found guilty

Another big nail? I'd like to think so but it won't make a blind bit of difference. The low- lifes will find a way to continue their repugnant activities.

Glad to hear it. Let's hope the National Trust permanently ban hunting on their land.

£1000 fine.
Bit confused why teej is getting so excited

Mr Hankinson was fined £1,000 along with a contribution of £2,500 towards legal costs.

Sorry that is small change for someone who can afford to keep hunting horses. Its a bit like the two guys in in the Vale of Belvoir a couple of years ago who beat someone who was monitoring the hunt to a pulp who got let off with a slap on the wrist because of their ‘previously good character’.

coyote - the point is that many of these temporary bans on use of the land will hopefully become permanent. National trust is the big one but plenty of other landowners from small to huge. this temporary ban has already put some hunts out of business. as the land they can hunt on gets smaller and more fragmented then hunts will simply either have to be more brazen in breaking the law leading to easier prosecutions or just simply give up

It will also make future prosecutions easier as well as the lie of "trail hunting" is now a useless defense

£1000 fine.
Bit confused why teej is getting so excited

Because the potential knock effect it may have in other hunts using the same tactics.

Drac - this was not just one hunt - this was a national webinar from the national association telling hunts how to evade the law. It has national ramifications and pretty much removes the defense of "we were trail hunting"

Only if the judge isn't part of the problem though...

What DickBarton said...

I admire your optimism TJ, but I really don't think it will be that straightforward. The hunts may have to adopt a lower profile, i.e. no poncing about in fancy dress beforehand, but they will find a way. These people are not wired up right, anyone taking pleasure in a pack of dogs tearing up a live fox isn't just going to say "fair enough" and pack it in.

Drac – this was not just one hunt – this was a national webinar from the national association telling hunts how to evade the law.

I know.

I find it amazing that the rich and connected (i am assuming this here, btw), havent got anything better to do than chase and torture wild animals simply going about their lives. You would think all that wealth and influence would open doors to a lifestyle unattainable to the average person. If you hate foxes, just stay up late one night and shoot them, no need to exhaust, terrify and mutilate them to death.
You wouldnt do it to a vindictive serial killer ( of people, let alone chickens) so why is it OK to do it to a fox.

If these landowners refuse the hunts permission to be on their land and the hunts trespass then its another way of prosecuting them. also other landowners were awaiting the results of this trial to see if hunts should be banned

It will not end the killing of foxes for fun overnight but its another step on the way and a significant one

two effects - 1) that they will have less land to hunt on
2) they no longer have the defense of trail hunting

@johnnymarone
I know, right, it genuinely baffles me too.
When my wife and i have discussions about what we’d do with ourselves (if we had a big lotto win for example), tearing live animals to bits never comes up as a suggestion.
Just for background, i come from a farm, we had several hundred genuine free range chickens, and we never regarded foxes as pests.

Will make absolutely no difference to the UK wildlife.

If you hate foxes, just stay up late one night and shoot them, no need to exhaust, terrify and mutilate them to death.

I think you misunderstand, deeply.
Most hunters don't hate foxes. Indeed the master of the east Devon hunt used to go out and feed them chicken offal in order to encourage them to stay on his land so he could hunt them.
😪

I find it amazing that the rich and connected (i am assuming this here, btw)

Yes that's a pretty massive and incorrect assumption, many hunt followers are not wealthy, neither are the people who go out hare coursing, ferreting, cock fighting etc. All sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds are right bar stools to animals.

many hunt followers are not wealthy, neither are the people who go out hare coursing, ferreting, cock fighting etc.

Ferreting isn’t a blood sport, it’s a relatively humane way of keeping rabbit numbers down, plus rabbits can be eaten. Myxomatosis was introduced as a way of controlling rabbit populations, and it’s a horrible way for rabbits to die, thankfully you rarely see Myxy rabbits around now, they stopped living in large warrens.
Hare coursing, on the other hand, like cock fighting and badger baiting is vile and needs to be stamped on with big fines given out. There are reports of coursers trying to go after hares in a big field the other side of a nearby village, but there are people living close to the field, including the farmer who owns it, and a close eye is kept on it, as there’s only one narrow road either side, with access at only one point in the village.

Hare coursing, on the other hand, like cock fighting and badger baiting is vile

as is fox and deer hunting with hounds which these criminals have been obviously continue to do

Criminality runs right thru all blood sports and is inherent in it. Its just the authorities clamp down on those done by working class folks not those done by toffs

We need to see significant jail time and significant enforcement action for all the criminals killing animals for fun

Makes a bloody big difference to the elements of UK wildlife on tbe arse end of a pack of hounds though.

It's how they treat the dogs as well due to any injury, or if it can no longer keep up with the pack.

They state because the dog has lived within the pack and the mentality of that it cannot be rehomed, and instead of calling in the vet to administer a fatal dose, they simply take the dog out into the nearest field, place a gun to its head and shoot it.
I understand that it cannot be rehomed, and the veterinary society says this too, but it should at least be euthanized is a humane manner, not just bloody shot in the head.

Well i think its a bit much to expect empathy from people who go out of their way to rip innocent animals apart. Plus the vets cost and bullets are cheap.

Baffles me how an activity that was made illegal 15 years ago still carries on regardless... with the police turning a blind eye to it... no reason at all to keep a pack of hounds anymore is there? If I had a disused meth lab and all the ingredients present but promised I wouldn't make illicit drugs do you reckon the constabulary would just take my word for it?😉

whytetrash - because they used this fiction of "trail hunting" as a cover. that cover is now blown. Trail hunting is a perfectly legitimate activity but only one hunt ( I forget which) actually does trail hunts the rest use it as a cover for killing foxes.

Yes that’s a pretty massive and incorrect assumption, many hunt followers are not wealthy, neither are the people who go out hare coursing, ferreting, cock fighting etc. All sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds are right bar stools to animals.

Certainly none of the people I've known who hunt, shoot and fish could be described as posh. There was always a very incorrect "class" element to the anti hunt campaign.

Though that's an aside to the issue of animal cruelty, obviously.

Trail hunting is a perfectly legitimate activity but only one hunt ( I forget which) actually does trail hunts

I would be curious to see which one that is.
There are the drag hunting packs but there is a reason why they wanted to keep the term "drag hunting" for themselves and so trail hunting was created for the traditional fox hunts who didnt want to switch to strict drag hunting.

I do not remember the detail unfortunately but I seem to remember one of the hunts did convert properly to drag or trail hunting

All "trail hunts" banned in the lake distict national park.

I understand that it cannot be rehomed, and the veterinary society says this too, but it should at least be euthanized is a humane manner, not just bloody shot in the head.

I'd say that is a pretty quick and decent way for the dog to die, no moving it around to get to a Vet, no stress for it walking it to a spot where it can be shot. The dog wont know anything about it.

All “trail hunts” banned in the lake distict national park.

Wheres that from, I can see some historical suspensions but not a recent ban?

From anti hunting organisations so pinch of salt required perhaps as I can find no official announcement either. maybe I jumped the gun as it were as the NP put in a temp ban last year

You wouldnt do it to a vindictive serial killer ( of people, let alone chickens) so why is it OK to do it to a fox.

You maybe wouldn't, but given the chance I bet a lot of people would and the fox hunters would love to chase a person, one of those anti hunt people would be a good person to chase down.

Lake District national park has suspended all hunting on their land untill 2022/23 apparently as a result of this court case.

I live in a very, very pro hunting area, prob about 50% of those that hunt are considered wealthy, they may not have millions in the bank, but cirtainly couldn't be considered anything other than 'rich'. The others are either middle class or 'rural poor' who have some connections to hunting through work, usually something to do with horses or general farm work. I'm invited on most hunts, shoots and other activities (hare coursing once) and politely decline.

Although I'm personally very anti-hunting, in fact all blood spot. I reap the benefits as I run a village shop and sell items to those that hunt, albeit a small amount, and those whose lively hood solely relies on hunting or shooting.

Many of those that hunt, seem not to do it for the pleasure of killing, as the anti hunt mob will insinuate, rather the social aspect and general ride around the countryside - a bit like going for a big group mtb ride with a bunch of 50+ mates across land/trails that aren't usually ridden or allowed to be. The killing part is something that only the hardcore, seem to get involved in, as there are usually multiple groups of riders.

If hunting was banned tomorrow, I doubt my buisness would really notice as something else would take its place - the people employed the hunt don't earn enough to really shop with the village shop other than for the odd can of coke or bottle of port, their buisness would be a greater loss to the local Lidl or Aldi. The richer set would carry on as they are.  However the wider community would cirtainly notice, the estate I live on recently stopped all shooting, with the game keeper made redundant which has caused great discomfort to the community, the game keeper having been part of it for decades and it's still talked about. But the estate decided that 1000's of free roaming pheasants weren't the best for an estate trying to rewild and have good eco credentials. A full-time conservation officer has subsequently been employed by the estate. Who is now becoming part of the community.

I will always support a ban on hunting although it's a large part of my community, it's also outdated and barbaric. Society evolves.

Many of those that hunt, seem not to do it for the pleasure of killing, as the anti hunt mob will insinuate, rather the social aspect and general ride around the countryside –

if this was true why do they continue to kill foxes? Drag or trail hunting would have exactly the same social aspects.

sorry dude - its all about the pleasure of killing.

It is a nice precedent and a start.

Like I said some still get involved in the front, usually the fastest riders only. I've not heard of an actual fox kill by my local hunt for at least a couple of years. But like I said, the majority of those that attended aren't there for that - it's just a big social to them which is why they still attend the drag/trail hunting. If there is a kill, most are at least 1/2 a mile away and not involved, maybe if they were better on a horse they would be, in fact a large proportion seem to spend most of their time in the pub rather than on a horse. Some turn up just for a chat at the start of the meet. I'm not condoning it, just trying to understand it like everyone else.

TJ, I’m very anti-hunt but I think that monkeyboyjc has a point ref the killing. They’re not all doing it through blood lust.
Still barbaric though.

it should at least be euthanized is a humane manner, not just bloody shot in the head.

From a former butcher that statement seems a little strange.

If they are not then why not do drag hunts? Why continue killing foxes?

Shooting hounds in the head is no worse than what happens to meat animals when slaughtered. Its a weak emotive argument intended to appeal to those who call their pets fur babies.

It weakens the overall arguement

Pauly
Free Member
TJ, I’m very anti-hunt but I think that monkeyboyjc has a point ref the killing. They’re not all doing it through blood lust.
Still barbaric though.

But by going along at all they are choosing to put themselves in the position that they may well see a sentient creature terrified and chased to exhaustion and then torn to pieces and that they're perfectly OK with that possibility...

A full-time conservation officer has subsequently been employed by the estate. Who is now becoming part of the community.

Effectively no real change in the local full-time employment numbers then.

From a former butcher that statement seems a little strange.

We dont shoot them in the head with a bullet(OK, there are exceptions there), but for food animals we stun them, they then die from blood loss. The work is carried out in a controlled environment. You can't just place a gun captive bolt or otherwise at any point on the head and expect it to kill instantly and without suffering.

But either way killers are highly trained,and licensed. I certainly don't see any huntmaster being trained to kill in such a way, nor a would think kill cleanly....oops missed, try to get a 2nd shot in as the dog is thrashing around...

Saw the hunt swanning around like they own the place up on Dartmoor around lunchtime today.
Considering the amount of cows, ponies and sheep up there at the moment im surprised they are allowed to.
As our dog is a red and white cockapoo, we drove on several miles to our second favourite spot, just in case he was mistaken for a fox 😉.

You can’t just place a gun captive bolt or otherwise at any point on the head and expect it to kill instantly and without suffering.

Umm, yes you can. That's the entire point of a head shot.

But either way killers are highly trained,and licensed. I certainly don’t see any huntmaster being trained to kill in such a way, nor a would think kill cleanly….oops missed, try to get a 2nd shot in as the dog is thrashing around…

I'm getting the impression you know very little about shooting/hunting.