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If ordinary people can get from London to Birmingham for small change then I'm all for it.
However, they won't. It's going to cost billions, which will need to be recouped somehow and you can bet that some politician is devising a way of getting it built that returns a healthy profit for all concerned at the expense of the passengers - who will by and large be business people priced off the airlines by hikes in aviation taxes.
Two years ago, Southeastern introduced their high speed service to London St Pancras, priced at a 30% premium over the already ridiculously expensive main line services. Yes, they get you to London in 35 minutes from Ashford (and coincidentally will run Olympic VIPs to Stratford), but the majority of people in Kent who commute work in east London and rely on the old Cannon Street service. Taking public transport into account, there's naff all in it door to door. Last year, Southeastern had to reduce the length of their high speed trains from 12 carriages to 6, because of flat demand.
HS2 will be a similar white elephant but on a much more massive scale unless the lessons are learned. As a commuter, I'd rather see the billions put into the existing network for cheaper trains that don't smell of piss.
pjm1974's post above is apparently a live broadcast from a Saloon Bar. Needs moar cliches!
Clue: what happens to prices and volume when you add supply to a market? What happened to the price and volume of cross-channel ferry trips after the Chunnel was completed? Would you have built the Chunnel or criticised it using the same arguments?
Konab - Good point!
Even if the HS2 service only proves to be a service for business and the wealthy it still relieves congestion on the existing lines.
I'd take having a seat from Manchester to London as being a plus even if I couldn't afford to use the HS2 service.
The most economical solution is a line running to Manchester that interfaces with the existing network. That way the line provides the capacity where it is needed and as its a new route lets make it high speed.
The only vague issue with integrating it with the current network further north is that you're then restricted to smaller loading gauges, can't build trains to European spec, or go double-deck or anything.
So you have standard gauge trains only going further north.
Can you get double deck trains through the tunnel ....suppose you could the car decks are double story.
I get the capacity argument, but it's hard to swallow when in my experience getting the train often means walking past loads of empty 1st class carriages to be squeezed into a rammed standard carriage. I don't often travel at peak though.
oldagedpredator - So you propose building the most heavily congested sections last when the governments probably run out of money anyway?
Not exactly a build sequence more routes to look at.
Even the names of the Y-route should give some clues the current plan isnt a go-er. Its essentially a fast airport link and nothing else.
The main thing would be coming further east with first highspeed line north. It surely would have more benefit if the first line linked more town and cities together. A line conecting the East Midlands throught to S. Yorkshire and then into Manchester and Liverpool would, I think, bring more benefit to more people. Doesn't mean a Birmingham Spur couldnt be added to this at the time its built. You then get the potential for fast travel between northern cities and the midlands. It also means eventually you get fast travel between NE and NW. The Y-route is still to SE focused. Not all of us want to go quickly down to London.
From the development of the TGV network one of the key things they found was not building enough track capacity at the time. Doing it again they would apparently go for more quad track with highspeed and commuter or freight lines seperated. Build something that can also deliver high volume commuter travel between Birmingham and the East Midlands or S.Yorkshire and the NW as well as the high speed lines and you might be on to something.
I dont enough to have all the answers to this but I do know enough to see we're being sold a pup. Its a 1990's solution to a 21st century issue.