[Closed] HS2. Now coming to a village near you.

Well yes and no. That doesn't fix issues with capacity on arterial routes. There isn't all that much economic benefit for improving travel between northern towns when compared to adding a few million extra tonnes of freight to the railways and improving connectivity to London.

adding a few million extra tonnes of freight to the railways

unless something has changed significantly the chairman of the Rail Freight Group seems to think it will make things worse
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10309863/HS2-will-clog-up-the-rail-system-warns-freight-expert.html
Also - "many smaller places on existing main lines will see service reductions without any HS2 alternative" - ie places that currently have reasonably regular direct London links will lose them

(that's a 2013 article but i've not heard of changes to the routing since then)

My understanding is that there have been quite a number of significant changes since 2013, and you have to remember that that article is from an organisation attempting to change HS2 routes and proposals.
I'll ask around about route, train paths and future service proposals.

From that telegraph report...

HS2 is supposed to remove trains from the existing West Coast route, described by Mr McLoughlin as “already operating close to its limit”. But the new line will initially be built only between London and the West Midlands.

For at least the first six years after it opens, seven HS2 trains an hour to Manchester, Liverpool and points further north will have to join the crowded West Coast tracks anyway, just north of Birmingham, to complete the second half of their journeys.

But that's wrong, as the HS2 trains would replace the standard line trains on the non-HS2 part of the west coast line, so the level of congestion ends up the same. It does though free up the parts of the existing network that parallel the HS2 build, i.e. for freight or more frequent stopping services.

The idea that good rail and road links bring prosperity to the north is bunkum. Imagine a town sitting on the East Coast Main Line, the A1, The M18 to the M1, The M62 running across the top. Throw in canal links to the Humber and an international airport with runway big enough for A380s and the Antonov super transporters.

You'd imagine the place would be buzzing, it's not, welcome to Doncaster.

As an aside, here's a great article about how high speed rail has disrupted slower local connections all across Europe.

[url= http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/12/high-speed-trains-are-killing-the-european-railway-network.html ]http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/12/high-speed-trains-are-killing-the-european-railway-network.html[/url]

For at least the first six years after it opens, seven HS2 trains an hour to Manchester, Liverpool and points further north will have to join the crowded West Coast tracks anyway, just north of Birmingham, to complete the second half of their journeys.

The northern bits aren't as congested though. North of the Trent Valley it's not so bad.

Njee, I'm suggesting that more trains seems a reasonable solution to overcrowded trains. The Shinkansen run at a variety of speeds btw, faster overtake slower at minor stops. Local commuter lines run at similar density.

So will Thameslink in a couple of years.

My point is that you still need the infrastructure to support that (hence massive redevelopment of London Bridge). If one of your trains from Edinburgh stops at Berwick there's nowhere for the faster ones to pass.

The Shinkansen all have broadly comparable performance, they don't run high density on lines where there's a huge mix, and where they do it's slow. It doesn't need stating that mixing 125mph passenger trains with 50mph freights on a double track line is a recipe for instant conflict. Obviously running everything at 50mph mitigates that, but then you have a railway at max capacity and trains running at 50mph!

As an aside, here's a great article about how high speed rail has disrupted slower local connections all across Europe.

The article is about LONG DISTANCE slower trains, which unsurprisingly have been cancelled as there is less need for the long distance routes when they are served by the higher speed. However, there are still slower trains between places, just not covering the full distance on one train. As you would expect the slower trains are now focussed on connecting towns that are near, rather than crossing the whole country. This mean capacity can be kept in the right place, rather than empty commuter trains travelling miles just because they have to provide the long distance service all too.

The Thalys is two to three times as expensive as the Étoile du Nord, while it's only 25% faster. For most people, the time gained by taking the high speed train is not worth the extra cost. However, since the Étoile du Nord has vanished, they are left no other choice than to pay more when they want to travel by train.

You can still travel cheaply by low speed train between Paris and Amsterdam -- over the same route that was covered by the Étoile du Nord. But you have to be very patient: the trip takes 7 to 8 hours and you have to switch trains 5 to 6 times (Paris-Maubeuge-Jeumont-Erquelinnes-Charleroi-Brussels-Amsterdam). A one-way trip costs €66, half the price of the most common fare of the Thalys.

Of course the issue is the cost of the new fast train, its usually much much more 😐

My point is that you still need the infrastructure to support that (hence massive redevelopment of London Bridge). If one of your trains from Edinburgh stops at Berwick there's nowhere for the faster ones to pass.

There are a couple - Drem springs to mind, but that's my point - without lots of places to pass you can't run trains every 3 minutes unless they all run at the speed of the slowest one.

The Thalys

Was singularly my most impressive, pleasant, and comfortable rail journey ever. If HS2 is going to be anything like that, just build the bloody thing.

Oxford - Cambridge would be an excellent line to re-open, infrastructure-wise. Major innovation axis of the country, and Cambridge's connectivity to anywhere other than London is dreadful.

Who wants to visit Oxford?

A direct line to Ambleside would be quite nice....

As an aside. there's an interesting article in Issue 4 of London Reconnections about the infrastructure upgrade plans for the Northern and Jubilee lines. To increase the Jubilee line to 36tph will cost nearly £300m - £120m for 8 new trains, additional stabling at Stanmore £50m and infrastructure upgrades £100m.
Northern Line Upgrade 2 giving 30tph is quoted at £700m...