So quick not on behalf of my brother inlaw who is at his wits end with a newish employer.
Started a new job with a national employer just over 6 months ago, contract says 37.5hrs basic, with the standard wording to fit in with company business as and when needed. He is salaried and a manager, does not get paid overtime.
All managers are apparently expected to work a standard 12hr day so 60hr week! He takes no more than a 15minute break at lunch, so is being run ragged.
Where does he stand, no one minds working a bit over or quite a bit over standard when the business needs it, but this is permanent 12hr days sometime he is pushing 70hr/week!!
Any advice appreciated.
Illegal. Working time directive. But it will be either put up or leave
What Teej said.
Not a HR expert I'm afraid, but if that's the "culture" he'll be fighting a losing battle to change it I'd expect. Have had not dissimilar expectations from a previous employer (though not a senior role).
There's not much info to go on, but if it were me, based on the fact that I work to live, and not the other way round, I'd be starting to look for something else, and reluctantly sucking it up meantime.
Crappy.
What tj says.
Sounds like a shit company. Get out now , they won't change.
And name and shame here.
Walk, report the company and name them.
Illegal. Working time directive.
Pesky EU with their liberal laws upsetting our work slave culture...
What we need is a referendum!
Work the contract hours, and see what happens.
What TJ says, what Ehrob saus and do what Outofbreath says (whilst looking for another job!).
It wont change.
Similar to my company, and a position I could take. 36hr week but calls/meetings from 08:00 - 17:00, and running a team on work patterns covering a 10hr 40m day and expected to be available at all times.
There will no doubt be a working time directive opt out that he will have signed, meaning that this is perfectly "legal".
I've had jobs where that's a normal working day (used to be a private practice lawyer - plenty of times where I worked 100 hour weeks).
If it isn't for him, then he needs to find a new gig pronto. No point in doing something you end up hating very quickly.
By the time he's found a new job + served notice he'll have done approx a year, so his LinkedIn profile will look fine....
What’s his hourly rate, doing 60 hrs a week?
A friend of mine in the same boat - ruining his life by taking every spare minute and ounce of energy. Time to look for a new job.
There will no doubt be a working time directive opt out that he will have signed, meaning that this is perfectly "legal".
They are to allow people to volunteer for overtime, you can’t force overtime.
Work the contract hours, and see what happens.
Not before you have new employer lined up mind...
if you have opt'ed out then you can always cancel it, even if it is part of the employment contract, see [url= https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maximum-working-hours-and-opting-out ]HMG - Cancel Opt Out[/url]. They can't get rid of you for opting out, although it is likely to damage any career progressions.
Part of the problem of long hours is that productivity is very poor. You are often better working shorter hours but being more productive. If you are working long hours and then need to spend time sorting problems out then the 60 hour week becomes 70 plus hours.
He’s a manager, yeah?
email to HSE to kick in whistleblower protection
stand up, put his coat on, and tell all his staff to go home when they have done their hours
What are they going to do, sack him for protecting the company and staff?
Sit back and enjoy the £££ settlement
What are they going to do, sack him for protecting the company and staff?Sit back and enjoy the £££ settlement
After just 6 months employment they can just sack him but yes might be with he being a martyr.
Part of the problem of long hours is that productivity is very poor
Studies have repeatedly shown that a long hours culture has nothing at all to do with output, just the appearance of working long hours.
What are they going to do, sack him for protecting the company and staff?
They just sack him, sent home there and then with PILON. No reason required until 1 year service and that reason doesn't have to be fair until 2 years service. The only exception is "automatically unfair" reasons covering illegal discrimination.
You know when you are on probation when you start a new job? That cuts both ways. If it's always been like that from the start, I doubt there's much you can do except start looking.
Thanks for all the advice.
Pretty much what I've told him get out. He can't just not do it when it's expected of all the managers.
Largest supermarket in the UK. U know the one.
He's not hourly paid. He's on a salary and not that much to be honest under 25k.
I will place a bet that those at the very top of the tree in that organisation would not be happy with such expectations. I would also suspect that there will be some buried HR policy about this.
Somewhere out seems the pressurised culture kicks in, and so managers down start adding and asking for unfair expectations.
Then it becomes ingrained in culture.
So unless brother in law knows CEO, get out asap.
A 60 hour week at £25k p/a is very close to minimum wage, so depending on how much below that he is paid and how often he pushes 70hours he could easily be working for below minimum. How does he record his time at work?
I'd be asking head office hr (not the branch staff) what the companies expectations are for hours worked over contracted. Then I'd do everything I could to get another job.
He's not hourly paid. He's on a salary and not that much to be honest under 25k.
Exactly - so once he’s done a 70 hour week what does his hourly rate work out at? Far below minimum wage?
Just get out all the above taking them to the cleaners stuff is pointless and a waste of time.
Maybe re train as a doctor and earn even less money and work more hours ?
Work for many people who work in retail and they all tell the same story, pushed to stay on longer than required,no overtime premium payments, short breaks, and one retailer, the managers sign to say they will cover any store if required problem is some stores are a 100 miles away and managers are expected to close their store at 22.00plus and then reopen a new store to them at 07.00 the next day despite never being there before and having to also pick up the keys from the ill manager who may well live many miles away.
Best to leave as there will be a bus load of fools willing to take the job till they succumb to the failures of system
The phrase that springs to mind here is "managing expectations."
They can expect what they want, so what? I expect not to work for free, their staffing shortfalls aren't my concern. Half an hour here and there is acceptable, somewhere between 50% and 100% extra is taking the piss.
Everyone else does it, again, so what? They're bloody idiots.
Contrast the UK with Germany....
UK - [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/18/brexiteers-paid-holidays-millions-britons-eu-working-time-directive-rights ]Brexiteers want to leave WTD[/url]
Germany - [url= https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWrcLu35bYAhVMIsAKHSwgBXYQFggnMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F197cd828-e4c8-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da&usg=AOvVaw0XPzEdYaJbpKWuwW2hKxUg ]Unions arguing for out of hours emails to be deleted[/url]
It's a lesson for him and for anyone else reading this. Always ask these questions during interview and before deciding to take on a new job. I have always done so along with a question about staff turnover and if a big company any staff satisfaction survey results. Good companies will be glad to answer and even glad you asked. Anyone gets shitty for you asking is a good enough sign to withdraw from the interview process.
So it’s ****ing Tesco then, we’ll I don’t shop there already on principle, so can’t offer anymore indirect support.
He needs to get out , plenty of other places to work with some respect.
Km79 has som sage advice
The odd week to get a project out im cool with
This expectation shit. All it does it does someone else out a job. That's all it is. Working for free.
Sounds like a stress doctor's note and time to start looking to me 😉 play their own system
It's exploitation, and it's par for the course in the sector I work in - until I played the (genuine) stress card. As most above have said, get out.
Just walk out the door at your programed finish time, what could they possibly do youre the manager
All managers are apparently expected to work a standard 12hr day
Interogate him on what this actually means by this. A lot of times the expectation of hours worked comes from other colleagues and a pressure to do the same as everyone else rather than an actual instruction from your line manager. Large companies sometimes have pockets of localised self perpetuating unheathly long hours culture that is not directed but no one wants to be the one to break the habit. What sort of hours did he think he was going to be working (as opposed to the bit of paper he signed) having got through the interview, had a tour etc? Was it a case of being told it was long hours and just assuming it was being talked up or was it a genuine surprise? More as a learning exercise for next time he's looking than anything else.
Secondly, assuming he decides this is not the company for him and he's looking for a new job, tell him to make sure he scours glassdoor.com before taking the plunge with a new employer. Long hours culture is the sort of thing that comes up there (along with loads of other health warnings as well as positives).
They just sack him, sent home there and then with PILON.
Who's PILON?
Sexy female robot?
Paid in lieu of notice?