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So the Greeks are going to vote on the austerity package (and lets assume Greek turkeys don't vote for Christmas), then what?
We can't let them completely default within the euro as it would bring down most of the banks this side of the pond making RBS's shortcomings look like a kid who didnt have enough pocket money for a penny mix and the Beano.
We can't kick them out because that ammounts to the same thing as their currency (and therfore debt) would be worthless.
So what happens?
TINAS.
You post too soon.
Perhaps Greek Turkeys will vote for Xmas.
Asset prices collapse. Once the dust settles, the Chinese move in and buy everything and anything. US hegemony comes to an end and your children all move to Beijing and Shanghai to get jobs.
On the positive side, the roads will be a lot emptier and you will hardly ever meet any 4x4s on bridleways or BOATs. A lot more donkeys though.
so what I've never understood is this.
if a person goes bust, the bank would strip their assets, then use that to pay off the debt
can't you do that with a country? sell off the publicly owned parts (health service, railway etc), which is what all the money was spent on, then use the cash to pay off the debters
Who says they are worth what was paid for them? Especially if the population is in near revolt.
can't you do that with a country? sell off the publicly owned parts (health service, railway etc), which is what all the money was spent on, then use the cash to pay off the debtors
Unfortunately, this tends to piss the population off slightly.
can't you do that with a country? sell off the publicly owned parts (health service, railway etc), which is what all the money was spent on, then use the cash to pay off the debters
What send the bailiffs in you mean?
The referrendum may not take place at all if the Greek govt collapses, as it may well soon. Whatever happens we are DOOMED, it's just that the EU and the world stock markets keep postponing the event in order to wring just those last few drops of blood out of the corpse that is the financial system. It's not a question of if, but when...
What's the Parthenon worth?
Papandreou said: “Citizens are the source of our strength and citizens will be called on to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to the agreement. It is not for others to decide but the Greek people to decide…
Roughly translated:
"Bollox to the lot of you! I'm absolving myself of all responsibility for this train wreck. You can go and tell them you want your money back if you want. I'm off. Now where's the escape pod?"
What's the Parthenon worth?
Not much at the moment, but when it's finished.... 😛
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/greeks-punch-gift-horse-in-the-face-201111014490/ ]The Daily Mash[/url]
Sometimes, TDM does rather hit the nail on the head.
What send the bailiffs in you mean?
As I believe the Germans pointed out, the greeks do have a lot of islands; perhaps they could sell some of those off.
can't you do that with a country?
Is that not called war?
The Daily MashSometimes, TDM does rather hit the nail on the head.
I dunno, defaulting worked pretty well for Argentina apparently.
Perhaps Greek Turkeys will vote for Xmas.
What's that Skippy? Pigs are flying?
But bear in mind the results of past UK elections... People did vote for Thatcher and Blair...
Doesn't matter what happens, all this lending of trillions of Euros (Italy next? Spain? Portugal?) is just kicking the problem further down the road. The chickens will eventually come home to roost and there will be massive amounts of unavoidable pain.
I say - do it now and get it over with.
Let Greece default and go back to the Drachma.
Same with the other dominoes as they fall.
Let the Euro dissolve. The idea that we can't sell goods to European countries or buy theirs in return without it is nonsense.
Let the markets be free to work. More and better Capitalism, not less.
I do love all the folk who think the euro will die. Of course it will not being a big strong currency. Greek economy is a sideshow.
The euro is here to stay - get used to it folks. The Pound is history
Ultimately the Greek populace doesn't really have a choice.
Doesn't matter what happens, all this lending of trillions of Euros (Italy next? Spain? Portugal?) is just kicking the problem further down the road. The chickens will eventually come home to roost and there will be massive amounts of unaviodable pain.
IIRC the bailouts aren't 'lending' they're writing off the debt as they go allong?
The point is there's a lot of money to be saved by letting Greece default on half it's debt and pay back the other half (Greece stys solvent as do the banks). Letting it default on it's entire debt ruins Greece and all the banks.
Letting it default on it's entire debt ruins Greece
Temporarily yes, but as above - Argentina is doing great now I believe. Iceland? How are they getting on?
Let the Euro dissolve.
If the Euro is really in such dire straits why is it still so strong on the currency markets?
Let the markets be free to work. More and better Capitalism, not less.
Would be nice. Let the banks go bust. Makes more sense than bailing them out so we go bust instead - that's not capitalism.
Difficult for any rational person to argue with that Mr Woppit!
However, this is the EU - otherwise known as La-La-Land. Rather than rational people, we have the likes of Silvio Berlesconi taking these decisions. Just the type of man you want at the helm in a crisis
I do love all the folk who think the euro will die. Of course it will not being a big strong currency. Greek economy is a sideshow.
The euro is here to stay - get used to it folks. The Pound is history
Only because the political EU is standing behind it with imaginary money. The music has stopped and everyone is racing for a chair... let's see how much value the euro would have without the constant and massive support...
It would still be strong on the back of the German and French Economies which are strong and stable. A devaluation would be useful but its too strong - there is no massive pressure to devalue it
The euro is here to stay - get used to it folks. The Pound is history
Can it continue in its current form? Specifically without a common fiscal policy?
Greece drops the Euro and reverts to the Drachma
Lots of Europeans go on holiday to Greece, snapping up a bargain due to high value of Euro and low value of Drachma
Greece sees huge economic growth due to influx of foreign money.
Capitalism in action 8)
The fact that Argentina is doing well, is probably due to the obscene amount of natural resources they have.
Don't quite think that Greece is the proverbial "gold mine" that Argentina is somehow.
...Greece sees huge economic growth due to influx of foreign money.
Greece rejoins Euro...
Once bitten, twice shy...
Lots of Europeans go on holiday to Greece, snapping up a bargain due to high value of Euro and low value of Drachma
Surely that can happen now as the German Euro will buy more in Greece than it will in Germany, giving us an exchange rate within the Eurozone.
Apparently what kick started the greeks' debt spiral was them frittering millions on the 2004 athens olympics. A solution to the problem would be to simply reuse that stadium for the 2012 olympics instead of us frittering money WE haven't got on one in london.
The greek public would be happy, we could let the greek government off some of its debt in return, the euro would be saved, and we wouldn't have loads of traffic congestion in london. Everybody wins. Can't see boris liking it though.
I think bonj is onto something here. 🙂
Specifically without a common fiscal policy?
I guess you're reading the same things as me, or coming from the same square at the very least.
Later this week there is a confidence debate and vote in Athens. My Greek collegues think the government will scrape through, in which case we have a referendum on the bail-out in Dec/Jan. If the government falls we have elections at the end of Nov say after which there is some kind of national government of Left and Right.
Default and exit may not be the worst option here. Will be chaos for a few months and very very painful (civil servants could see their income half, or worse) but ultimately having the Drachma back would allow Greece to deflate their way out.
The banks are already taking on 50% losses. If Greece has a proper default it will be the ECB and IMF who hurt.....they arent taking losses so far, thats why the latest deal isnt enough.
Greece is going to be a sideshow after a couple of months I think, attention is now on Italy. Next year is going to be ugly as hell. Luckily we have started to put our books in order, thank god we arent in the Euro.
It would still be strong on the back of the German and French Economies
I was under the impression that long term the French economy is borked as well. They have a public pensions problem that makes ours look like a small overdraft dispute. Wouldn't bet on the French being a stable bailout partner long term; they have a habit of doing what suits them best.
The euro is here to stay - get used to it folks. The Pound is history
The potential shit-storm if any other country after Greece (Portugal? Italy? Spain? Ireland?) potentailly defaults, means that there simply isn't the capital for a further bailout within the Eurozone
Its goodnight Viena for the Euro at that point. No matter what they've got to say on the matter in Paris or Berlin. The decision is taken out of their hands
And lets be honest, they're hardly looking like strong political leaders now, are they? More Rabbit-in-the-headlights
Surely that can happen now as the German Euro will buy more in Greece than it will in Germany, giving us an exchange rate within the Eurozone.
Well, I can only speak for my company when I know that both our trade and SRP prices are set "Euro wide".
TBH Greece is never going to be a strong member state. It was always somewhere where member state aid or loans could be given.
Greece needs to be ejected asap then we can concentrate on saving Spain and Italy.
If Italy falls there will be big trouble. Greece was always a loan dustbin.
I guess you're reading the same things as me, or coming from the same square at the very least.
Depends what you're reading. Don't forget we're very detached from the Euro here and what I see is that people don't fully understand what it is. There still exist exchange rates between countries, my old Spanish Euro simply didn't have the same value in France, nor were the same rules applied when it came to earning them.
Let the markets be free to work. More and better Capitalism, not less.
Yes I think we can all safely say that we are not where we are today because of capitalism in action or to do to with the markets actions.
Good shout
Apparently profit is the reward for risk so I would say suck uyp the risk in the form of huge losses and let sthe banks go under
We dont subisides failing companies but we do bail out investment bankers
frankly **** em well done Greece - they will be poor/shafted whatever happens but at least they may take the ****ers with them.
in all seriousness, the reason you keep getting all this doom and gloom and then suddenly it all gets pulled back from the brink, is that the german economy is vital to propping up the euro, and that it is germany's best interests to keep it propped up, but it will only do the bare minimum that it needs to in order to keep it afloat, because it is already putting more into it than it is getting out, and doesn't want to pour any more money down a black hole than it can help.
from each according to ability, and all that.
We dont subisides failing companies but we do bail out investment bankers
frankly * em well dont Greece - they will be poor/shafted whatever happens but at least they may take the * with them.
Good point. maybe papandreou made a calculated call that he will get shafted by the troika whatever, so he might as well not get shafted by his own people as well.
The German public should be sending every cent they have to keep Greece and Italy in the Euro. Soon as they fall out whats left of the Euro is going to go through the roof as the Drachma and Lira devalue. How many VWs or Liebherr fridges will they sell down there then?
It comes back to politics, the man in the German street doesnt see why he should bail out Greeks who retire way before he does, but the politicians havent been able to sell the case that it is the Germans who benefit most from the Euro.