We have a local woods which is normally used for small walks, child walking and dog owners. Its situated near a town.
However, a couple of 'downhillers' think its a good idea to cut saplings down and make new trails and are making a huge muddy mess.
How can you ask them not to?
I have spoken to them, they were abusive and said its our local trails isnt it. No actually it isnt its basically a public park with lots of 25 metre muddy slippy 'trails'. I mentioned if they were actually mountain bikers they should be in kentmere or the lakes (about 10 mins drive away).
This isnt a troll, i ride footpaths responsibly if i need too. i.e in the snow or when its dry or when there isnt families around.
However, they are making a bad name for actual mountain bikers who go to mountains to ride.
Maybe im getting old and grumpy, but these guys are old enough to know better.
Is it council land? If it is there'll be a Ranger or somesuch who's responsible.
There's been similar problems near me in Hove and the Council have spent a lot of money putting trails beyond use. Biggest problem was there was a footpath cut into the fall line and the DH tracks crossed it in several places.
im sure everyone will be along shortly to give their underinformed opinions and slate my spelling/punctuation
My opinion is are they really hurting anybody? if not why not ask them to tidy up/ maintain the trail better. a ten min drive can be a long ride on a dh bike and they are right they are their local wood aswell
[img]sixpacktech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Grumpy-old-man.jpg[/img]
My opinion is are they really hurting anybody?
What is your opinion if they do hurt somebody?
It is after all an illegal downhill track that crosses a footpath several times in a public path.
My opinion is are they really hurting anybody? if not why not ask them to tidy up/ maintain the trail better. a ten min drive can be a long ride on a dh bike and they are right they are their local wood aswell
Not hurting anyone as such, but certainly hurting the long term ecological future of the woods by cutting down saplings.....
So yes I think the OP is right to be concerned.
Build gorilla trails by all means but do it with a view to the future.
Build gorilla trails by all means but do it with a to the future.
Yes i agree.
Why don't you set up some [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/working-mans-race-series-warning-strava-content ]illegal Strava racing activity[/url] in some OTHER local woods and circulate it on the internet.
All the irresponsible MTBers will sod off to the other woods.
🙂
Plant saplings in their berms.
It is after all an illegal downhill track that crosses a footpath several times in a public path.
Gap jumps over the paths are clearly needed.
gorilla trails...!? that should keep the yobbo's away
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gorilla trails...!?
Thats the one!
I believe the trend is to stretch wire across the trails, or leave planks with nails in on them!
Joking really, not sure there is much you can do, there any many areas of life with irresponsible tools in, even biking.
are they really hurting anybody? if not why not
Good point, more violence is clearly needed.
However, they are making a bad name for actual mountain bikers who go to mountains to ride
Well arnt you the bees £%$^ing knees.
Get dogs to crap over their lines, they will soon move on
Ideal use for some old Claymore mines of you have any kicking about. They'll only set them off the once...
I'm all for sniper DH lines but that's exactly what they should be.. minimal impact, inconspicuous little lines.
Whether they cross footpaths or not is irrelevant imo..
I don't think the stw mahoosive can reliably pass judgement here due to a lack of evidence.
Case dismissed.
STATO
No im not the bees knees, but some people need to respect their surroundings. We live so near Lake district i don't know why they go there. I do.
its serious tho innit, shirley if we want what we do to be accepted and encouraged we've got to be responsible? i try not to ride stuff thats going to get destroyed if its wet, there's plenty you can do when it is wet, and maintenance is part of riding?
Where is it?
It's because they don't have cars perhaps. When did pruning some trees and a muddy line become an ecological disaster? Dogs, on the other hand, are a nightmare for wildlife. Perhaps you should contemplate the millions of acres of treeless ploughed fields and protest against modern agriculture instead?
Whether these lines are a good idea or not, your idea that they should all ship off to the Lake District because
i) it's close
ii) it's what you do it
is laughable.
How about you live your life and let them live theirs?
buzz-lightyear - Member
It's because they don't have cars perhaps. When did pruning some trees and a muddy line become an ecological disaster?
New around here I take it?
Eddie Fiola - MemberWe live so near Lake district i don't know why they go there. I do.
You said 10 minutes drive- so, 5-10 miles? Not too convenient on a big bike, if you don't drive. Are the trails there the same as these ones?
. I mentioned if they were actually mountain bikers they should be in kentmere or the lakes (about 10 mins drive away).
Was this before or after they got abusive?
So what exactly are these woods, and how large are they?
Are they a public park, as you suggest, or are they owned for other uses, either privately or publicly?
If it's not really a park, I suggest you live & let live.
The cyclists will make a few paths through the woods, in the same way that walkers & dogs do. They won't leave piles of poo though.
A 10 minute drive to you may be an hour's cycle each way for them: not really feasible for an afternoon.
Of course the dog-walkers could always go to the fells instead of using the woods - or is that not just as reasonable a request as suggesting the cyclists move?
Perhaps you could offer them a lift?
pruning some trees
Pruning good/ok....if you know what you are doing....
Cutting down not good.....if you don't know what you are doing....
Where I live the Gnar-Boys seem to do this a lot - its brill isn't it 🙂
Oh, but been Scotland no one else cares what they get up to, and the 'lines' will stay until the trees are cut down - which could be next year, or it could be in 30 years.
I believe the trend is to stretch wire across the trails, or leave planks with nails in on them!Joking really...
Sad thing is, there's people out there who do that, and they aren't joking.
When you've got people on mountain bikes being dickheads, people will think that mountain bikers are dickheads.
Only takes one of them to be not too bright and in possession of fishing line and someone gets hurt.
Whether it's trashing the land, or riding inconsiderately or whatever, it reflects badly on anyone who rides on knobbly tyres. Whether that leads to access problems, vigilante idiots or just bad vibes, it's right that it's challenged by those that have the gumption, and good on you, OP, for not standing by or just being blindly tribal because they're "mountain bikers".
Take a shovel and help them build?
Why not approach them as both a mountain biker and a concerned local. That way you can actually influence what they're up to, maybe suggest line choices that avoid paths or create corners that slow you down before entering a path. I'm hardly an expert trail builder but you get what I mean.
Compromise and working together is always better than this tribal approach some people seem hell bent on taking.
A lot depends on the circumstances, too often see this when people who think they can build something and all they actually do is make a mess that turns into a bog after the first rainfall.
Not good for anyone.
mattk - MemberTake a shovel and help them build?
can I suggest that without landowners permission no-one should be digging 😉 for all the group know there could be red squirrels or other protected species in the wood
if people want to dig they need to talk to the well known responsible groups who are well established about how to do it and keep everyone happy
Not really enough info in the OP to make any kind of judgement. Is it private land? Is it a managed wood? Are the footpaths RoW's? How popular is it with walkers? How often do the DH lines cross footpaths?
The fact there are other options in driving distance is pretty irrelevant
Sounds good! Where abouts is it? If its local I might go give them a hand, OP you sound like a typical middle class mtb snob tbh! Would you rather them be on the street corners terrorising your neighbourhood! 😈
They're causing no harm its only mud and will repair itself live and let live man!
They're causing no harm
Apart from cutting down saplings and being abusive....
However, as mentioned above, more info is needed regarding the ownership / access rights to the woods.
@pussywillow: Except it's not just mud and it won't necessarily repair itself will it? By cutting down saplings/trees etc it can destroy the root system which hold the earth together, encourages good drainage and prevents erosion if it's done extensively enough. Also, as posted somewhere above, how do the diggers know the area they're digging in does not contain wildlife which they're disturbing unnecessarily?
About 10 years ago, a group of young guys with jump bikes started doing exactly this in my local woods using what looked like piles of earth as the foundations of their jumps. Thing was, those piles of earth was a badger sett which they subsequently destroyed. Despite them not riding there anymore, the remnants of the trail is still there and it's now pretty much a bog.
Self repairing mud! Gotta get me some of that!
They're causing no harm its only mud and will repair itself live and let live man!
When professional trail builders e.g. Cognation, build a trail one of the most important aspects they look at is environmental impact & sustainability. One part of that is looking at how to build a trail which blends in with the local environment, doesnt impact on other trail-users & doesnt involve cutting down valid growth, & will last.
Now with their being professionals I think its safe to assume they know what they are doing & the best way to do it...
Or perhaps you know better? Perhaps you should give them a call & tell them not to bother with that poncy green tree-huggy crap 'cos hey its only mud after all....
Jeez some of you guys really are a set of Eco warriors!! 🙄
A bunch of kids having some fun building a few jumps causing no intentional trouble and you guys acting like they're a bunch of low life thugs!! I bet the moaners about it all live far in the country side with nice big houses away from all the REAL trouble in life hmmm... And I bet you all drive nice big fancy cars polluting the atmosphere too! Pot calling kettle n all that!
Jeez some of you guys really are a set of Eco warriors!!A bunch of kids having some fun building a few jumps causing no intentional trouble and you guys acting like they're a bunch of low life thugs!! I bet the moaners about it all live far in the country side with nice big houses away from all the REAL trouble in life hmmm... And I bet you all drive nice big fancy cars polluting the atmosphere too! Pot calling kettle n all that!
Mate youre completely & utterly missing the point...which is, fundamentally, about being responsible for your actions & being aware of the negative impact they may have on others & the environment.
You also seem to want to start a slanging match...which Im just not interested in.
On that note I'm walking away from this conversation.
I think its very bad for the public image of mountain bikers when some folk build potentially dangerous trails with such close proximity to dog walkers etc .
there have been similar issues near me ,all you need is one bike coming downhill fast and one other person walking accross their path and we're feeding people the excuse to dislike our legitimate use of trails
Got to agree with the eco-treehugging-hippy people on this one. It only takes one bike where it has no right to be to hit someone who has a right to be there and all of a sudden we're banned from riding privately owned land. Got nothing against building trails responsibly away from footpaths etc - it's only you that'll get hurt either through crashing or arrest for trespass/criminal damage but as soon as you start infringing on others access and introducing the risk of collisions between cyclists and pedestrians you're making trouble for all of us.
Paintball guns are great.
Pirate Trail Builders are a pain in the arris. Without exception they think they are some sort of modern day Robin Hood exercising some form of medieval right to do whatever they please wherever they please, and generally just succeed in cocking things up for everyone else.
A similar scenario to the above left some poor innocent a paraplegic in my local forest. Borrow pits either side of a badly constructed, stupidly located, poorly thought through "jump" = one broken neck. Of course having had their fun these guys were long gone when the crap hit the fan, and then everyone else is left paying the price.
the woods are public property next to a town
Local Duke of edinburgh groups tidy them.
They have an alphabet trail for local kids to follow
Has lots of already built paths
Looked after by residents
Has no cycling signs
Im not appose to folk riding through the woods or even having fun on bikes there,(stealth like) it was just the cutting of saplings and making big muddy trails.
Think yourself lucky it's not chavs on monkey bikes like my local woods!
(It's only 5 hours drive to the Lake District too! 😉 )
ooo wont somebody think of the children
I think the OP has a point. If it's a small wooded area then there needs to be some sensitivity which if the guys are young they may not be in tune with.
We all need to share these resources and this won't be helping the reputation on mtbers if it's making a big mess/hazzard.
Really not sure what you should do apart from keeping up the dialog/ empathise - keep chatting to them then they may be more inclined to listen to what you have to say
A similar scenario to the above left some poor innocent a paraplegic in my local forest. Borrow pits either side of a badly constructed, stupidly located, poorly thought through "jump" = one broken neck. Of course having had their fun these guys were long gone when the crap hit the fan, and then everyone else is left paying the price.
Was the injured individual riding those jumps? Surely they should only attempt them if they are happy with the jumps, and if so, accept any injury that results?
(Within reason of course, fair enough if the jumps were booby-trapped or similar, but pits next to dirtjumps is hardly unusual)
I live in an inner city area that is next to a bona fida Gheto, have a cheap house so cheap i did not pay stamp duty, a very small car and comute to work by bike,AND ride lots of stelth trails and footpaths, so if pussywillow will allow me to express an opinion..
building a trail that runs across walking paths cutting down sapplings and building unauthorised berns and jumps is silly it places mountainbikers in conflict with others and creates hostility it also does actually run a serious risk of injuring a member of the public or a childs face. I can think of two local "trails" that have down hill runs that cut across bridalways at 90 degrees with really poor sight lines so no warning for the downhill wanabees that ride them or the walkers, horse riders and todlers on ballance bikes enjoying the legitimate path. Some day soon it could get quiet ugly and then we all get banned or we get some more vigalanti's building booby traps.
Eco warrior! not really, to be honest i'm just grown up enough to know that the world doesn't owe me anything and i have some responsabilities, i dont really mind cheeky trail building but like most things you have to consider thier impact on the other users of the area. but hey as long as the mud self repairs itself who cares 😉
you could offer to give them all a lift to your idyllic trails in the lakes - maybe organize a minibus, get a club going, all that big society sort of thing innit. or just carry on whinging on here whilst they're having fun in the woods
Troll
or
just stay in and watch Heartbeat or some other crap for pensioners.
So how do you find out who owns your local woods if you would like to do some digging?
you could offer to give them all a lift to your idyllic trails in the lakes - maybe organize a minibus, get a club going, all that big society sort of thing innit. or just carry on whinging on here whilst they're having fun in the woods
Come on then, since you're on your high-horse......what is it exactly you do to help?
I really don't get this 'eco-warrior' bashing nonsense. 🙄 The last time I looked, mountainbiking involved riding bikes in the countryside, therefore anything that impacts negatively on the environment has a knock on effect to the enjoyment of my hobby. My local trails have over the years been the victim of idiots who've cut down trees and pulled up saplings to make lines easier for themselves. It's selfish, doesn't take into consideration the fact that others might actually relish a challenge, and ultimately it has had a detrimental effect on the trails.
I'd love to meet these guys, and quite honestly don't think I'd be as polite and reserved as the chap who originally started this thread. We live on such a wee island, where pretty much every bit of countryside must be considered multi user, that selfish knob ends should be pulled up for their actions.
It's also quite interesting to see how over the years, many of these selfish fools seem to have congregated on this forum. Maybe the cull should start here. 😈
ooooooooooooooooooo 😆
Trouble is a lot of the youtube shorts on mountain biking show people just wandering into the woods and digging a trail, and/or riding through apparent backwoods wilderness improbably seeded with kickers and berms.
(Where this filming actually happens I don't know, one suspects companies such as Redbull and DC shoes and maybe the richer promoters and riders own or lease a few slices of land with such terrain.)
If they really are doing the harm suggested in the OP I'd probably agree with you Beagleboy, it's just the OP sounds a bit 'Daily Mail' so it's difficult to know what the reality of the situation is.
I really don't get this 'eco-warrior' bashing nonsense. The last time I looked, mountainbiking involved riding bikes in the countryside, therefore anything that impacts negatively on the environment has a knock on effect to the enjoyment of my hobby. My local trails have over the years been the victim of idiots who've cut down trees and pulled up saplings to make lines easier for themselves. It's selfish, doesn't take into consideration the fact that others might actually relish a challenge, and ultimately it has had a detrimental effect on the trails.
I'd love to meet these guys, and quite honestly don't think I'd be as polite and reserved as the chap who originally started this thread. We live on such a wee island, where pretty much every bit of countryside must be considered multi user, that selfish knob ends should be pulled up for their actions.
It's also quite interesting to see how over the years, many of these selfish fools seem to have congregated on this forum. Maybe the cull should start here.
POSTED 41 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
😆
[i]what is it exactly you do to help?[/i]
He moans on here on behalf of the people who are being moaned at by the moaners on here. Big society innit.
When I was young we used to burn car tyres in ditches, set fireworks off and throw stones at buses to amuse ourselves. The bigger kids used to sniff glue. I'm pretty sure that were we out in the countryside on our bikes we'd have been held up as pillars of the community. Funny how times, and what people perceive as anti-social behaviour change.
Having said that I'm pretty sure there's a solution to this which involves the kids still having their fun and the environment not being trashed. Maybe some common sense and understanding is in order on both sides?
Age of most of the mtb'ers in the wood is mid 30's ish.
Mid 30s? I'm surprised they have the time to be building trails. Still, the common sense thing still applies.
Having said that I'm pretty sure there's a solution to this which involves the kids still having their fun and the environment not being trashed. Maybe some common sense and understanding is in order on both sides?
Yes I 100% agree, I'm not saying they should not do it, just don't trash the woods, whist you do ride.