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Change jobs?As a teacher in the south east i cannot do the latter.
I'm sorry but you made a choice to become a teacher, live with that decision. You will recieve other rewards that money can't buy. Don't forget I have worked in the private sector and as a teacher, so have a little experience of both points of view. Family members have also worked in the teaching world and health service, so I've been surrounded by the petty jealousies all my life. 😉
"For me the question is whether you do the job for the satisfaction of helping others or for the money. If you have become a teacher or careworker or social worker with the objective of becoming rich in financial terms might I suggest that you've made a mistake."
This is insidious, tho - it's saying that some sort of sainthood or asceticism is required of people who do anything socially useful or rewarding. Those jobs are tough enough and not many go into them to become rich - but that's very different from saying that the pay should reflect the training, education, skills and stress of the jobs and provide the employees with a decent standard of living.
Going off topic but i will simply move.
Do tell us about your teaching experience.
Konabunny its the same viewpoint as those who dont think unions should exist i expect.
Do tell us about your teaching experience.
10 years English teaching, which of course is not the same as proper teaching. That's getting dangerously close to a TJesque argument of no experience removing the right to opine. 😉
but that's very different from saying that the pay should reflect the training, education, skills and stress of the jobs and provide the employees with a decent standard of living.
I'm not sure you can charge me with this as I've never said it. it's more a question of different rewards and different risks.
You made a choice, live with it.
10 years English teaching, which of course is not the same as proper teaching. That's getting dangerously close to a TJesque argument of no experience removing the right to opine.
to whom?
Students! 😯
What sort?
The sort that begin with a low level of education and finish with a higher level because of what the teacher has given them, where the teacher is content in the simple fact that they have improved.
Relevance?
Just trying to establish what your teaching experience actually is so that i can decide how much weight to give your views. Judging by the amount your wriggling I suspect you are trying to hide something. You make it sound like you didnt get paid! Never mind this threads about lorry drivers anway. I hope they get a good pay rise and you can carry on wriggling.
[i]
For me the question is whether you do the job for the satisfaction of helping others or for the money.
If you have become a teacher or careworker or social worker with the objective of becoming rich in financial terms might I suggest that you've made a mistake. [/i]
suprisingly i am neither....people who enter those professions should expect an equitable pay reward for the work they undertake, often working with the most vunerable in our society...social workers and the associated revelations re Victoria climbe and Baby P where fatality was the outcome for non intervention..... saying 'sainthood'/job satisfaction is round the corner is not a rational arguement nor a fair one when the unions have in effect decided to support one sector of their memebrship over another.
My post still relates to salaries and what is right/fair/equitable for the work undertaken.
...agree with kona bunny and AP exactly There are still people in the country still being paid overtime 😯
Judging by the amount your wriggling I suspect you are trying to hide something.
😆
I was a teacher abroad and don't have a B.Ed or PGCE which means I can't teach in the UK, but you know this already. But equally it does not mean that I don't understand the motivations behind being a teacher. I became a teacher to help others. I left a reasonable salary after being sick of taking in order to give something back. I made a choice and lived with it, no complaints and mucho joy when students succeeded.
I'm now moving back into a world of big salaries and no souls. My choice and no complaints either.
I am also aware that you are a bit sensitive to my stance on whinging public workers. Your choice.
Why don't you join the public sector? Is it because you wouldn't be able to hack being rated on performance???
The market should set pay with a min wage and unions to help. However if you work in the public sector in a job that doesnt produce cash it becomes difficult.
Ooops
Indeed. 😀
[i]I am also aware that you are a bit sensitive to my stance on whinging public workers. Your choice.
Why don't you join the public sector? Is it because you wouldn't be able to hack being rated on performance??? [/i]
Intresting public sector is highly performance monitiored and evaluated, when you talk of public services...what section?...it is a huge area. There is a difference between the whitehall manadrins/civil servants and the general local authority worker both in targets and pay/pension.
Most commissioned projects to the private sector have failed miserably costing an arm and a leg for little return...see army commissions/nhs commissions and so on.
The private sector given the pay of tanker driver/it gurus/consultants/marketing are overpaid with little come back on failure for performance,
The private sector given the pay of tanker driver/it gurus/consultants/marketing are overpaid with little come back on failure for performance,
Couldn't agree more, except when they're fired. 😉
Current experience of the box ticker says that public workers are not efficient either when the focus is on the activity is and not the result.
"I have just taught the Pythagoras theorem to 30 students."
How many have learnt the theorem?
"Who gives a toss, I've taught it!!!" 😆
* I am also aware that you are a bit sensitive to my stance on whinging public workers. Your choice.
Why don't you join the public sector? Is it because you wouldn't be able to hack being rated on performance???
thats right!
So we have established why you have no clue about teaching in a state school in the uk.
Not sure why you think I'm sensitive. I couldnt give a stuff what you think. Carry on spouting your rubbish though its funny.
LOL DON Simon......misconception that public sector workers aren't dismissed or made redundant.....slightly harder but still done....
depends on the activity and outcome looked and who is setting the targets. Some targets set for local authorities are too hard to record the outcome ie
reduction in the perception of Anti Social Behaviour...??? a lot more subjective than deliverer 300 gallons of derv to by.
Easy to scapegoat public sector worker.....harder to have that discussion with/about the divine private sector.It does no wrong.
How much do tanker drivers earn...............
So we have established why you have no clue about teaching in a state school in the uk.
Again, so wrong. You have taken conclusion jumping to olympic proportions.
Does not knowing the ins and outs of UK schools mean that I have no idea regarding the motivations of a teacher in, let's say, and American or Australian or Spanish schools? Of course it doesn't.
Take the blinkers of fella, you continue to do your hard working colleagues a disservice. 😉
So tell me about performance management in schools? Your the one with no clue I'm afraid.
Is it because you wouldn't be able to hack being rated on performance???
Ah yes , got asked to explain why house fires had doubled in a year one area that we covered. Slightly baffled I looked at the stats. It had indeed doubled went from 1 house fire to 2 house fires. When I explained I was told to " get out and reduce it to zero" yup ok!
depends on the activity and outcome looked and who is setting the targets. Some targets set for local authorities are too hard to record the outcome ie
Precicely, if the wrong question is asked the wrong answer will be given, both in private and public sector.
It does no wrong.
Saying that the private sector never does wrong would be quite silly wouldn't it and I've never supported that idea. It would make me look very blinkered and slightly stupid, wouldn't it?
Come on Don dont stop you were doing so well convincing me......
Ah yes , got asked to explain why house fires had doubled in a year one area that we covered. Slightly baffled I looked at the stats. It had indeed doubled went from 1 house fire to 2 house fires. When I explained I was told to " get out and reduce it to zero" yup ok!
Don't forget the master plan - next year when you've successfully reduced it to zero, they can say there's now no need for a fire brigade as there were no fires, and therefore they're going to make you redundant 😉
Come on Don dont stop you were doing so well convincing me......
Convince you of what? 😕
I dont really know to be honest but you must have been trying to make some point with your misinformed twaddle.
Aaah! The point that you can't really compare teacher's pay with tanker driver's pay because they have different motivatons for making careers choices before some idiot decided to question my credibility for having and opinion because I don't work in UK schools.
🙄
Ffs. Go and ride your bikes.
Was it, great we agree. You could try being a little more clear. Not sure what your misinformed views on teaching or performance management have to do with that though. You do seem a bit uptight though maybe you should return to your TEFL job, you seem stressed.
Ffs. Go and ride your bikes.
What? More? 400km a week not enough for you? 🙄
Not sure what your misinformed views on teaching or performance management have to do with that though. You do seem a bit uptight though maybe you should return to your TEFL job, [b]you seem stressed[/b].
Not at all my blinkered little friend.
So tell me about performance management in UK state schools, or would a few facts spoil your world view?
Cant go for a ride just had hip surgery.
You do seem a bit uptight though maybe you should return to your TEFL job, you seem stressed.
I guess that unlike you, he doesn't get 13 weeks a year paid holiday 😉
So tell me about performance management in UK state schools, or would a few facts spoil your world view?
You are TJ and I claim my €5,00.
I guess that unlike you, he doesn't get 13 weeks a year paid holiday
great aint it!
You are TJ and I claim my €5,00.
your the one who started chucking shit about something you clearly have no clue about. I think your quite funny, nothing makes me laugh more then someone who is clueless but so opinionated.
your the one who started chucking shit about something you clearly have no clue about. I think your quite funny, nothing makes me laugh more then someone who is clueless but so opinionated.
QED. 😀
Good work. Gosh your view on my inability to cope with performance man in the private sector and thats why I took to teaching is sooo valid. Well done.
I struggle with long sentences so someone may have pointed it out, but Channel 4 looked at the numbers (because they know politicians are liars) and discovered the figures quoted by the government were 25% too high.
Tanker drivers earn [url= http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-do-tanker-drivers-earn-45k/10116?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter ]around £33,500[/url]
Yes thats been posted. Good wage especially if overtime can be added, hope they get more.
[i]
Tanker drivers earn around £33,500 [u][/i]How much do takers drivers earn............??????
sorry i do not hope they get more........seems a very good wage in these times.
Why not how does it affect you. If they get paid more they pay more tax. I can understand why a teachers wage gets people hot under the collsr but they work in a highly profitable industry within which they are vital.
Why do people get all pissy when "unskilled" people get the chance to earn a bit of money?
Why do people get all pissy when "unskilled" people get the chance to earn a bit of money?
Insecurity and fear.
They should earn maximum £30k ... end off.
Why does it affect you? Why shouldnt they earn more.
Tory boys really change their tune on the free market and the politics of envy when manual workers actually stand up for themselves and negotiate a living wage, and decent working conditions.
They are not interested in personal success, just relative success.
chewkw - Member
They should earn maximum £30k ... end off.
Have you got a list there of what different jobs should earn?
Can I have a rough idea for the following please?
Baker
Park Warden
Astronaut
Professional breakdancer
Cheers
This thread is an excellent bellend detector.
So on that basis CEOs of FTSE100 companies shouldn't earn such big salaries then? I mean they haven't got a union, so surely the fact that they sit on each other's remuneration committees has nothing to do with the gravy train and they won't be able to justify paying "the going rate" to attract the right candidate.
it turns out all you need to do to earn 100% more than the national average salary is to learn to drive
🙄
A quick google reveals the (2011) UK average wage is £26.2k. 100% more would be £52.4k. So thats over £7k [b]more[/b] than the "£45k a year" lie. Do you work for the Conservative press office?
It has been established the tanker drivers earn an average of £33.5k a year [b]not[/b] the £45k we have been told. Regardless of whether this is a fair wage or not the fact the government has deliberately mislead the public to undermine the union/drivers is outrageous. (Although no surprise)
FWIW I earn less than the "average" UK salary. I still think the tanker drivers are fairly paid (now we have established what they [i]actually[/i] earn) for the job they do.
MSP - MemberTory boys really change their tune on the free market and the politics of envy when manual workers actually stand up for themselves and negotiate a living wage, and decent working conditions.
+1.
Look how much chaos a 2,200-strong workforce 'caused' the other week without even having to get to the point of going out on strike. Perhaps the free market ought to pay them whatever they think is enough to spare us from running out of fuel? 😆
I don't buy this whole "I went to university then trained and trained for years and years and now someone driving a van earns more than me, waaah" stuff. You should have done something else.
If I was unhappy with my lot but thought driving a van or whatever was easy money and lots of it, I would go and do that instead. There's no point in being bitter about how much you earn, if you don't like it, make a change 🙂
Could everyone stop referring to it as an unskilled job please. Ta 🙂
Current experience of the box ticker says that public workers are not efficient either when the focus is on the activity is and not the result.
"I have just taught the Pythagoras theorem to 30 students."
How many have learnt the theorem?
"Who gives a toss, I've taught it!!!"
Apart from the fact this isn't how teachers are assessed, that's an excellent point.
I don't buy this whole "I went to university then trained and trained for years and years and now someone driving a van earns more than me, waaah" stuff. You should have done something else.
i have a degree, masters, PhD and apparently the average tanker driver gets paid a little more than me. Good luck to em, hope they get a payrise.
sc-xc - MemberHave you got a list there of what different jobs should earn?
No, but there are many jobs that should not earn that much put it this way unless it is their own private business.
Can I have a rough idea for the following please?
- Nothing to concern as they can sell as much or as expensive as they like and they can strike whenever they like by not baking etc ...Baker
- depends but definitely max of £40k for the highly experience and not simply employ too many.Park Warden
- not more than £150k I hope ...Astronaut
- as long as I am not paying and they are not affecting me the public can worship them by pouring money on them.
Professional breakdancer
- Nothing to concern as they can sell as much or as expensive as they like and they can strike whenever they like by not baking etc ...
You're assuming that all bakers are sole traders there. Surely the vast majority of bakers are employees.
Baker- Nothing to concern as they can sell as much or as expensive as they like and they can strike whenever they like by not baking etc ...
You do realise that most people buy bread in supermarkets, and that most bakers are employed in large bakeries.
That really does basically highlight your ignorance, you don't seem to understand life outside your little bubble, but still manage to seethe with envy that someone should dare to earn a decent wage despite complete ignorance of how they earn that wage.
not only do these guys earn more than many university graduates for simply cruising around in a truck, they aren't burdened by 15k of debt for their education..... 😀
for some it must be quite a bitter pill to swallow.
i earn more than some people and a lot less than others, yet almost everyone is surprised at what i can/do earn by chopping, screwing, glueing and nailing pieces of wood.
anagallis_arvensis - MemberYou are TJ and I claim my €5,00.
your the one who started chucking shit about something you clearly have no clue about. I think your quite funny, nothing makes me laugh more then someone who is clueless but so opinionated.
anagallis..... [b][i]you're[/i][/b] a teacher, yet you fail to master basic grammar. are you a PE teacher?
There are some right Master Bakers on this thread.
konabunny & MSP,
I am afraid supermarket is a rather private entity so what they earn is of little concern to me. Put if this way supermarkets have killed off the local bakers ... so you see if they many still bakers around at least they (bakers employed by supermarket) have a choice to look elsewhere.
🙄
Arent tanker drivers a private entity?
anagallis..... you're a teacher, yet you fail to master basic grammar. are you a PE teacher?
god no, pe teachers are the lowest form of life. I teach science and dont bother too much with grammar when on an interweb forum using a phone. But thanks for the corrections can i post u some books?
yup.... mail in profile. might be a bit pricey, mind... 🙂
anagallis_arvensis - MemberArent tanker drivers a private entity?
If they are then let them go ...
vondally - Memberapart from bankers or hedge fund managers would you care to name some?
12-years ago I was taking home over £500 a week order picking in a food distribution warehouse.
If they are then let them go ...
And if they return, they truly love you.
That really does basically highlight your ignorance, you don't seem to understand life outside your little bubble, but still manage to seethe with envy that someone should dare to earn a decent wage despite complete ignorance of how they earn that wage.
That might well be the case, but chewkw provides unique entertainment value to this forum, something which I am personally very grateful for. Start demanding that he makes carefully thought out well-informed comments, and the unique character of his contributions go out of the window.
Ignore them chewkw, you carry on posting your nonsensical riddles - I for one deeply appreciate them.
konabunny & MSP,I am afraid supermarket is a rather private entity so what they earn is of little concern to me.
Eh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers? Thatcher privatized National Road Services in 1982 - truck drivers have been employees or contractors of private entities for 30 years now, no?
Eh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers?
He's already said, quote : [i]"If they are then let them go ... "[/i]
Why don't you pay attention ?
Government set regulations denote who can drive a fuel truck, along with the training / competence certificates they must have to do so.
The union in this case wishes to set additional criteria, laid out by them, over and above that required by law, restricting the carriage of petrochemicals to people who have this industry "passport"
There is no law setting out who can and cannot bake bread
If the worshipful company of bakers sought to set out their own training regime and "passport", and said that anyone who carried flour in a vehicle had to meet the specific pay and training criteria they had set, and that if their demands were not met, their members would go out on strike and ensure nobody could buy bread - you'd probably think they were being unreasonable.
can I ask if teachers go out on strike will they get the same response as truckers....
mass panic re fuel
an element of 'sympathy' and good luck mate
an offer offer from the govt of more pay, when the pay (33.5k) is above hte national avg......
no they will castigated and pillored to high heaven.
[i]
Eh? So why the interest in fuel truck drivers?[/i]
because they seem to earn more pay than other HGV drivers/peopel with small business/public sector workers......struggling to see equity in pay....how competative the market place is when private sector wages seem to rocket and no one complains but public sector attacked over pay and conditions....appalled at unions supporting this pay dispute before others who are geniunely lowly paid.....why the private sector has not said okay you want this much lets find someone cheaper....do these drivers have a monoploy on driving skills and so on?
my dad drives tankers for a living (not petrol/oil) the week before last he worked 69 hours and drew just over £550 after deductions .I know he looked happy with that but i would rather earn less and spend more time with my family , which is why I'm a postie !
I'm not sure how he managed this legally as you can only work 56 hours (then you have to make the 2 hours extra back from the following week) a week as a hgv driver.
You can't work loads of overtime as your hours are limited by tacho laws. Any other hours such as loading/cleaning lorry etc or part time jobs must also be added to your weekly total. You have set daily and end of week hours of rest as well.
As a previous poster mentioned driving petrol tankers is a closed job only for family and close friends.
It might seem like an easy job sat on your backside all day but there is more to it than that. Motoring laws are complex and can vary depending on who stops you (vosa or police) and the fines can be huge which are payable by the driver not the company.
If they can earn 35-45k doing it, good for them. It's not like petrol companies make big profits!
can I ask if teachers go out on strike will they get the same response........an element of 'sympathy' and good luck mate
Yes. Well from me anyway. The teachers I come into contact with through my daughters who are at school do a fantastic job and are undervalued IMO. Especially if regional pay comes into being, we live in a relatively poor area and I don't want my girls to be taught by those who weren't good enough to get a job in a better paid area.
So yes, as with the tanker drivers, good luck. I hope the teachers manage to get what they deserve.
The teachers I come into contact with through my daughters who are at school do a fantastic job and are undervalued IMO
I'd be happy to see my taxes increase too.
I hope the teachers manage to get what they deserve.
We do it for the love have you not read Don Simons posts.
I'd be happy to see my taxes increase too.
I pay my fair share of taxes, I obviously wouldn't be happy to have to pay more. I'd be very happy to see what I do pay being used properly.
I take it you were happy to see the decrease in the max. rate in this years budget.
I'd be happy to see my taxes increase too.
Nothing stopping you giving the government more money than you [b]have[/b] to, just send a cheque to HMRC,
Bradford
BD98 1YY
We do it for the love have you not read Don Simons posts.
You seem to have chosen to totally misunderstand what I've written.
Won't somebody think about the children??
I think as a teacher the pay is OK but its the conditions that have become far tougher very quickly in the last year or so, by that I mean the size of classes and lack of appropriate resources. Obviously I was pissed of about the pensions and would be about removing national pay scales too. Education for state school kids is getting rapidly worse.
You seem to have chosen to totally misunderstand what I've written.
your (sic) right we do it because we're too crap to do owt else wasnt that it?
