How does inheritance work without a will?

Have you got a will? Just say to him you've been reviewing yours and wondered if he'd done one yet, as an opener.

He may have a charity wants to leave some to, they won't get anything unless there's a will, which is another conversation opener.

Depends whether he’s in Scotland or the rest of the UK, it’s easy enough to to google the intestacy rules but much much much better to get him to write down what he wants to do regardless of whether the rules happen to suit him. 

Depends whether he’s in Scotland or the rest of the UK

He lives in England 👍 

My father died without a wil in place, wasn't any great issue, although it was a fairly simple estate.

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will/y

this is a helpful guide to the rules of intestacy:

ASSETS.CTFASSETS.NET "https://assets.ctfassets.net/r0he32jel541/6jcsLA89TuwOwOrWEmHzYD/9165daaed0d6f45851e4c054e47442a6/LEG_COP86725_Intestacy_610876.pdf"

I am not bothered about the money personally, but I'd just like to think that it would go, fairly, to the right people

As opposed to? 

As opposed to? 

IN case anyone doesn't click through this is really clear.  

But he should have a will - it it goes to parents it going to get passed on again in the not too distant and might have inheritance tax implications (as will be added to their estate). I've been vaguely involved in the estate of someone who died intestate without any direct relatives and very distant relatives have ended up arguing about it for years (with loads of legal costs being stacked up) and people that the person had verbally (lots of corroboration) said they wanted to get something having to fight to do so. 

That flowchart is really useful, cos me and MrsIHN don't have any wills but also have no children, so whoever's left first will inherit. I assume that the process of that happening is more onerous if there's no will though?

Posted by: b33k34

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I've been vaguely involved in the estate of someone who died intestate without any direct relatives and very distant relatives have ended up arguing about it for years (with loads of legal costs being stacked up)

Jarndyce and Jarndyce?

Posted by: Steve

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He may have a charity wants to leave some to

Lots of charities offer a free will writing service for simple wills, in the hope (no guarantee) thet they'll be a beneficiary. So if he's got any favourite charities check their websites.

Posted by: IHN

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I assume that the process of that happening is more onerous if there's no will though?

Yes. TBH in very simple cases such as yours you may not consider it that big a deal - surviving spouse will normally inherit everything and if you both go together in a car crash then maybe you don't care where it goes? But even so it's a smoother process with a will.

Come on people, it's really not that difficult or complicated to do!

My parents always warned me to make a will as if I didn't, it would go to them.  In that event, they could have done a deed of variation, diverting the funds to someone else.  The impact is immediate, ie, it never hits their estate, so the 7 year window is avoided for failed gifts.

The free will writing month is coming up, get him registered.

As opposed to? 

For example, if one brother was to die, would it all go to the surviving brother (which I am sure wouldn't be what he would want)? But, following thecaptain's suggestion, I found the answer I wanted by searching 'intestacy' which got me most of the information I needed.

Also - what would happen if both me and my other brother died before him – would the money go to his nieces or the state (but I think the nieces get it now I have read more).

Government coffers I would imagine.

And this – I had it in my head that the Government would take a bigger slice with no will.

Posted by: Poolman

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In that event, they could have done a deed of variation, diverting the funds to someone else. 

Only if they have the capacity to do so, which may well not be the case. My father was in a care home with dementia when he inherited part of my sister's estate in this way.

(I don't believe an attorney could legitimately do this under LPoA, but we didn't push it as things were complicated enough anyway.)

Furthermore if one of them happened to die while the deed of variation was being drawn up, they'd have missed the chance.

It's really not as hard as you think to talk about these things (especially as we get older) - just ask him.

might be a bit awkward though, as OP wants to be in bro's will, but if OP goes first - is bro (with no dependents) in his? Unfair if not, surely 🤔 

Wanting to be in bro's will is clearly ridiculous, but wanting it to be left in some state of organisation (I'm making the implicit assumption that he's expecting to act as executor and/or would like the money to go somewhere that bro approves of) is not.

For someone with no dependents, a range of charities seems a reasonable option but that's for bro to decide.

Much easier if wills are made and clear. Someone I know passed away a couple of years ago with no kids,  had left a will leaving gifts to various cousins, nieces and nephews, but left the main asset - their £300k bungalow - to the only niece who had helped her and supported her since she'd been widowed. Cue much family drama, threats of legal action, family splits, one distant family vulture turning up from America....

And while we're doing a will, do a PoA as well. You might not give a stuff what happens when you are dead, but if you are paralysed and unable communicate, you will care what happens then.

but if OP goes first - is bro (with no dependents) in his?

He is in my will if he survives my wife and two children (obviously I put my own children ahead of him as he owns his home outright and is financially secure).

Posted by: John Doe

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For example, if one brother was to die, would it all go to the surviving brother (which I am sure wouldn't be what he would want)? But, following thecaptain's suggestion, I found the answer I wanted by searching 'intestacy' which got me most of the information I needed.

Also - what would happen if both me and my other brother died before him – would the money go to his nieces or the state (but I think the nieces get it now I have read more).

Are you sure he doesn't have a will?  It could be he does and you are just not included!  In his shoes I might miss out the siblings and go to the nieces, if I was close to them. 

I would be more than happy for that to happen – we are a very close family (we all socialise together and that includes the nieces too). He may well have a will but he hasn't mentioned it. In the absence of one, it would seem that the inheritance would still eventually reach my children (either via me or directly), which was the thing I was wondering about. Of course, if he has a will that leaves everything to charity then fair enough, that would be his choice (but knowing him, he would want his nieces to have a leg up in life).

Interestingly (well to me anyway) in Scotland you can't leave your entire estate to your spouse. The kids have a right to part of it regardless of the will.

In practice when we drew up our wills we agreed to leave  then entire estate to each other and to the kids after the last parent dies.

Our lawyer said this was OK as long as the kids didn't object after one of us dies. 

"The concept of “legal rights” in Scots law ensures that spouses and children have a right to a share of the deceased’s moveable estate, irrespective of the terms of the will."

https://www.raesidechisholm.co.uk/does-a-spouse-automatically-inherit-everything-in-scotland-with-a-will/

Think it's time to speak to my brother, he's in France has no children & is separated from his wife and I've just read...

"If the deceased was married without children, the spouse can’t be disowned"

Worth emphasising that the legal rights in Scotland only apply to “moveable estate” ie valuables excluding property. So this might be quite a small proportion of the total (ie when the estate is a house plus not much savings). My brother was quick to demand his rights when our father died (with an “all to spouse” will) but it wasn’t a huge amount - 1/3 of moveable estate, split between children. 

Think it's time to speak to my brother, he's in France has no children & is separated from his wife and I've just read...

 

"If the deceased was married without children, the spouse can’t be disowned"

If he died in France, and is resident there, presumably the rules may be very different. I dunno, I'm no expert, but all this goes to show how important having a will is. 

And IIRC @dickyboy weren't you recently an executor for someone with a will? I seem to remember that was somewhat problematic, imagine dealing with it without any instruction!

Yeh if he's married and has no will, then the wife will get everything... If they are seperated then I guess that's exactly what he "wouldn't"want.

My dad died without a will and although the split of his estate was fairly simple (50:50 between me and sis, and we have a good relationship) the process took a lot longer than we'd anticipated. I can't remember the details but you basically have to wait for ages for anyone who might have a claim to the estate to come nad ask for their slice even if you're pretty sure there isn't anyone. While this didn't affect the material outcome much (maybe lawyers fees) it did make the greiving process more difficult as it was hard to get a sense of closure.

This is why despite my mum having the square root of **** all to her name my sister and I insisted she make a will to make out lives a bit easier.

If he died in France, and is resident there, presumably the rules may be very different.

.............

Yes if he's tax resident in France, but not a French citizen, with no will then French rules will apply, whatever they are.

So it's even more important to make a will, as you could include a clause that you want UK law to apply to your French assets.

If he has assets in both UK and France he might even need 2 wills, one for each duristiction, otherwise it could end up being a right old mess.

What bikes does he have?

Interestingly (well to me anyway) in Scotland you can't leave your entire estate to your spouse. The kids have a right to part of it regardless of the will

Surviving children have a legal right to claim a share of the estate, but they don't have to exercise that right, so it is still possible to leave your entire estate to your spouse.

@tthew - yes been dealing with an estate of a friend, he had a will which has been fine if a little long winded in sorting out. Only problem is his pension which the trustees are currently holding on to (£200k), so as well as wills, make sure you fill in the nominated beneficiaries forms for your pensions too.

My brother has no assets in UK & has french citizenship, so under french law he needs to divorce her if he doesn't want her to inherit.

Posted by: dickyboy

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My brother has no assets in UK & has french citizenship, so under french law he needs to divorce her if he doesn't want her to inherit.

Or spaff it all up the wall by way of cash gifts, coke and hookers whilst he is still alive and married! 😆 

I believe King Charles will be very pleased he has no will....

Have a chat with him. Best bet. Luckily my mum has sorted hers,sorted the PoA and paid for her cremation. Phew. 

We have no kids, small amount of savings and the house. One of my sisters has hinted broadly that she expects us to leave it to her kids. She's wrong.

@sweepy, Whaaaat.  You'll need it for elderly care !

this is a helpful guide to the rules of intestacy

• Many thanks for that @dafoj

Was shocked to discover that my sister and mum were in line to inherit as much from me as each of my kids!

**** that.  Drew up and got signed a simple will leaving it to my 'missus' and the two weans equally.

I think you may have misinterpreted @thegeneralist, your children will get everything and sister/mum nothing (I'm assuming from "missus" that you are not married to their mother or indeed anyone else). However a will is still a good idea.

If married and/or civil partnership then partner gets a chunk of course too (possibly all). It only goes to sibling and/or parents if you have neither partner nor children nor grandchildren. AIUI.

**** me. I'm so depressed.  You're right thecaptain. The fact that there were three arrows leading to the "shared equally between them" box .... One for kids, one from parents and one from siblings made me think it was shared between all of them. But of course you only get to the second box if the first box is a 'no' and the third box if the first two are both 'no'. Why am I even writing this... You know it already, you just corrected me😆

I really am a ****ing halftard

Posted by: thegeneralist

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**** me. I'm so depressed.  You're right thecaptain. The fact that there were three arrows leading to the "shared equally between them" box .... One for kids, one from parents and one from siblings made me think it was shared between all of them. But of course you only get to the second box if the first box is a 'no' and the third box if the first two are both 'no'. Why am I even writing this... You know it already, you just corrected me😆

 

I really am a ****ing halftard

Hey don't feel bad -

It's not exactly obvious to the layman how it works, hence why it is often worth getting a family law/probate solicitor (as opposed to just downloading a 'boiler plate/one size fits all will) to draft you a will after a meeting to talk through your wishes and ask questions that may not have even occured to you.

Yes it will cost you a couple of hundred quid, but it's money well spent, IMO.

Hey don't feel bad -

 

It's not exactly obvious to the layman how it works

 

, 

But it should have been obvious from that chart, and I effed it up. Quite scary how my intelligence is going south as fast as my fitness. 😟

Yes it will cost you a couple of hundred quid, but it's money well spent, IMO.

Not at the moment it's not. Me and t' missus are getting married in July!
Perhaps after that I'll get it done properly.