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In terms of the markets as a whole, Tesla’s purchase was really really really small and yet it was a ‘big deal’ for BC, which shows it’s no where near being a viable currency.
I disagree. they bought $1.5bn dollars. If they'd done the same with Icelandic Krona they would have purchased over 25% of all krona in existance. That would affect the value of the currency - are you saying icelandic krona is not a viable currency?
I've just read that even it goes up to $50k per bitcoin - the marketcap will still be less than half of Apple.
I don't think a Proof of Work based coin will ever be a viable currency but it has the potential to be a long term store of wealth.
I think a Proof of Stake coin has far more chance of becoming a viable currency.
That would affect the value of the currency – are you saying icelandic krona is not a viable currency?
Not to replace Gold / $ which is what some people think BC will do....
I don’t think a Proof of Work based coin will ever be a viable currency but it has the potential to be a long term store of wealth.
I still don't see what the problem is, that this is a solution to...
We already have plenty of ways of storing wealth eg precious metals. Crypto doesn't bring anything new to the table, certainly not depth or stability which is what you need for any scale.
I still don’t see what the problem is, that this is a solution to…
It's generally better to have a solution in place before a problem occurs rather than wait for the problem to occur and then scramble to find a solution.
It could be that the money printing experiment that is happening at the moment will have no adverse effects and the economies of the world will continue in a nice stable trajectory.
Or the central banks could lose control and for the first time in history we see hyperinflation in multiple major economies at once.
We already have plenty of ways of storing wealth eg precious metals.
And as has already been mentioned, governments can seize precious metals in order to force people to buy their currency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act
They could, of course, do the same thing with crypto but then crypto was made with the express purpose of making this as difficult for governments as possible.
China has already tried banning them without much success. If they can't manage it what chance do western governments have?
Ripple (XRP) is spiking
XRP is a Ponzi scheme… It’s a pump and dump frenzy!
GET OUT whilst you’re up, then forget about it, and put your money in something else… TRUST ME!
Being naive here, but what are you basing that on? For every article that says it's a scam there's one saying XRP is the future. (I guess this is just the nature of crypto in general.)
I have bought some XRP and am currently in profit, but someone I work with has invested heavily and she is certain she will be rolling in it one day!
We already have plenty of ways of storing wealth eg precious metals.
Most of them do seem to impact on real life. Not totally sure about gold but the rising price must impact on the electronics industry. Property and land are also popular ways of storing wealth and that really messes up the property market and quite often town centres where land is just held onto rather than developed.
I would stay away from XRP. From wikipedia:
A class action was filed against Ripple in May 2018 "alleging that it led a scheme to raise hundreds of millions of dollars through unregistered sales of its XRP tokens." According to the complaint, "the company created billions of coins 'out of thin air' and then profited by selling them to the public in 'what is essentially a never-ending initial coin offering'."[18]
The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) initiated legal proceedings against Ripple Labs, CEO Brad Garlinghouse, and co-founder Chris Larsen on December 21, 2020, for allegedly selling unregistered securities. In the lawsuit, the SEC claimed that XRP was a security instead of a commodity, because it was generated and distributed by Ripple Labs in a centralized fashion and was not being adopted by financial institutions for its advertised use cases.[3] The SEC stated that Ripple executives sold 14.6 billion units of XRP for more than $1.38 billion to fund the company’s operations and enrich themselves.[19]
In response, Garlinghouse criticized the SEC and indicated that Ripple Labs would defend itself in court.[20] Coinbase delisted XRP on December 28;[21] an investor filed a class action on December 30 alleging that Coinbase sold XRP tokens with the understanding that they were unregistered securities.[22]
Or the central banks could lose control and for the first time in history we see hyperinflation in multiple major economies at once.
Whilst that may be true (probably isn't but let's be hypothetical), that doesn't make a cryptographic construct that's created a speculative bubble a solution any more than it makes bananas or tulips a solution. It would probably be healthier if rather than trying to justify it people just accepted that there may be an opportunity to make money for nothing so lets wade in (FOMO as the influencers/shills like to call it), bearing in mind the words of Joe Kennedy -
"You know it's time to sell when shoeshine boys give you stock tips."
any more than it makes bananas or tulips a solution.
I think a large part of the problem is that people think of blockchain in the same way that they think of napster.
You can't just copy files to create more bitcoins (or any other crypto currency). There are a fixed number and that is it.
Humans place value on rare things. Bitcoins are rare and will continue to be rare. From that point of view there is absolutely no reason for them not to be valuable.
If you've ever watched Halt and Catch Fire the line that always stuck with me from that show was this: 'Computers aren't the thing. Computers are the thing that makes the thing possible.'
You can’t just copy files to create more bitcoins (or any other crypto currency). There are a fixed number and that is it.
Whilst that's true of Bitcoin, it isn't true of cryptocurrencies as a whole. Think back to the title question - "How do you decide which crypto currency to buy?" Well why not make your own, after all if you can hype it enough you can sell it...
Whilst that’s true of Bitcoin, it isn’t true of cryptocurrencies as a whole. Think back to the title question – “How do you decide which crypto currency to buy?” Well why not make your own, after all if you can hype it enough you can sell it…
The BBC podcast "The Missing Crypto Queen" is all about that. Worth a listen. Quite well produced and interesting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07nkd84
Whilst that’s true of Bitcoin, it isn’t true of cryptocurrencies as a whole. Think back to the title question – “How do you decide which crypto currency to buy?” Well why not make your own, after all if you can hype it enough you can sell it…
That's like saying, 'Whilst that's true of Gold, it isn't true of metals as a whole.'
You can make your own crypto-currency in about 30 minutes. However, your newly minted coin would have as much relationship to Bitcoin as the price of mild steel does to gold.
Sounds like people are getting confused between something which as a currency vs an asset.
Currencies are a way of converting wealth, from one form into another. You can’t do that with Bitcoin. You have to transfer it into another currency first.
If you were to by a Tesla is it 1 Bitcoin or $47,000?
What if a Bitcoin is worth $50,000 tomorrow.
Is it still 1 Bitcoin or 0.94 Bitcoins?
All currencies are depreciating assets. Inflation erodes their value.
Why would you invest in a currency when it’s only going to go down in value?
Assets have a real life value attached to them.
Apple shares will pay you a dividend
Gold you can use in electronics
Land you can build on
What else can you use a Bitcoin for?
Early days ( and a bit risky ) but you can lend your bitcoin and earn intrest on it. You could also takeout a loan and use it as collateral.
To quote myself:
I’ve done not much more research than look at what US arm of Paypal have adopted and invested in those.
So I stuck an extra £50 in long shots in the end to my £450 *cough* safe bets, and my £500 has gone to £620 with the few weeks I've invested, so I cashed out my profit and my £500 remaining balance is already rising within a few hours.
Obviously I'm lucky, and not sure what's going on or what I'm doing, but if this continues I'll do the same again and will just be left with an essentially 'free'/low risk bet on the crypto currency bandwagon to just leave alone. Or it could all crash and burn, but I'm only in for £380 right now (and have £520 in fantasy money).
It's all a bit crazy but great fun!
Well I’ve jumped on the bandwagon after doing some research and I’m in for the long game. Only putting in what I’m prepared to lose.
Gone for Cardano and Ethereum, I’m strapped in and ready!
Last time I was too late to the game for Bitcoin, also got swayed into Tron and Ripple and only just broke even so see how this goes!
Hearing noise about Binance being huge, so will do more research and see if it has the legs people are suggesting
If you were to by a Tesla is it 1 Bitcoin or $47,000?
What if a Bitcoin is worth $50,000 tomorrow.
Is it still 1 Bitcoin or 0.94 Bitcoins?
This is true of all currencies though, although the variations are smaller.
If I agree to sell something for £1,000/$1,300 then next week when I deliver it it might be £1,000/$1,400, exchange rates change all the time, it's just the movements on Bitcoin are more extreme. Generally the price would be agreed as either £1,000 or $1,300 and the party using the foreign-to-them currency would be taking the risk on the exchange rates.
Bitcoin has taken a bit of a dive today! 🙂
As my mate just put it, "the arse has dropped out of everything" today. I was technically up about £250 around a week ago through a combination of different cryptos, that's pretty much all gone today! It's pretty entertaining watching it go up and down.
I'm still up £35! 🙂
Got £173 chucked in and currently worth £208. My tiny bit of Bitcoin cost be £45 and is currently worth £50.
Sold all my Ripple yesterday and will buy back when it drops below 37p.
It’s pretty entertaining watching it go up and down.
It is! Have to keep reminding myself it's not a game on my phone. 🤣
In an uncharacteristically wise move I cashed out all my BTC, BCH, ETH and LTC yesterday morning when I woke up and saw lots of red downwards arrows across the board.
So far I'm not regretting that decision 😳
So far I’m not regretting that decision 😳
..the plug has well and truly been pulled on the cryptocurrency bath in the last 24hrs!! 🙂
I'm still £1 up and even took a gamble on buying a bit more XRP while it's tanking.
I'm still up 30% on my bet from three weeks ago. I'm going to hold as I've got headroom and I'm gambling that it'll recover. I've got 5 different coins, so slightly diversified. Fingers crossed.
It’s fascinating how it’s turned around, suggestions are investors were worried how quickly it was gaining in value as it wasn’t sustainable.... or it could be because for the second time, i invested.... and tanked the market!
Exactly the same happened last time I invested 🤣
Tempted to buy now for sure, or monitor the situation for a short while at least... who’s to say it’s finished decreasing yet...
...all creeping back up again - slowly! 🙂
Not sure what the technical term is for what I'm doing, but I'm playing with XRP - waiting for it to get to 42/43p ish then sell it all. It's pretty volatile so I then let it drop to below 38p and buy the same value in £ back again. So I'm basically increasing the amount of XRP I own.
This is an interesting one.
Since posting a week or so ago, I have done a little bit of looking about and had decided to set-up an account (probably with coinbase or binance).
I was thinking of making small-ish regular investments - the sort of money that I obviously wouldn't be happy about losing, but equally wouldn't give me sleepless nights if it all disappeared.
Having looked at the chart, I did wonder if I'd already missed the boat as it was heading north fairly rapidly. I seem to have a knack for timing these things right at the peak and losing money in the short-term at least.
I think I should get an account in place in the next few days, so I am ready to invest when I feel it's the right time.
The drop in the last couple of days looks like a lot when you view a week chart, but when viewed over 3 months or more, it is (currently) just a blip. I guess that may change if it keeps heading down.
I'd be buying for the medium to long-term so would not try to get too twitchy at short term volatility.
I should probably read back through the thread, but what are the general thoughts on coinbase or binance? From what I have seen, coinbase has a much simpler interface, while binance seems like something more suited to short-term trading? I need to look at fees etc. before deciding.
Oh, I have been listening to The Missing Cryptoqueen podcast on the BBC - it's fascinating & hard to believe it actually happened (or is still happening) in this day & age.
I put some money in Coinbase but quickly shifted to Binance, Fees on CB are nasty and there are loads more Altcoin pairings available on Binance.
Basically simple trading platforms cost more money in fees. Never buy at market. Coinbase has a pro platform which is harder to use but cheaper.
The beauty of crypto is its volatility, use an advanced platform and limit orders to buy and sell based on the amount of risk you want to take without having to look at it. I’ve had a rolling limit on ADA for a while now, set a low limit buy, high limit sell and just repeat each time it sells. I’m not taking profit though just increasing portfolio.
Got an order fulfilled today at 0.6, had a .68 limit sell order which I cancelled but I’d have made £60 this morning if I’d have left it. I think it will reach higher on the bounce but who knows.. it’ll probably be worth .50 by teatime 🤣 but if you spend a bit of time gambling on the ups and downs it can be very rewarding.
I’m long on cardano as with a few other defi currencies anyway - so it’s not of much consequence the ups and downs but it means I can keep my cost averages in the right direction.
Bitcoin has had a spread of 31-39 k today, if your balls are big enough there’s plenty of money to be made! (And lost)
I'm using Kraken - for basic playing with low amounts is that OK? Seems simple enough, they seem to be 2.75% fees based on what I've currently purchased. Not bothered about a few pence in fees here and there, just enjoying the ride at the minute.
Not sure I'd being putting my money in on a medium to long term basis. It feels like something you really have to keep your eye on.
Kraken is the best exchange for most currencies IMO, secure, has plenty of coins on there and importantly for us accepts bank transfer unlike Coinbase so the fees are very good.
I feel the ‘ride’ is about to get a bit sporting...!
Edit: 2.75% fees means you’re buying at market - try and get a bit of an understanding of using limit orders, fees will drop hugely. 0.0something % maker/taker fees. £120 order cost me 19p earlier.
Limit ordering - will have to look into that. I'm still a newbie at this game!
Can I do that on Kraken Pro? And is there an idiots guide to what it is?
Think I definitely dropped into the red today. XRP had been keeping me afloat the past few days. I've bought a few more xrp and Ada today and that's it now, going to sit on it for a while and see what happens.
Limit ordering – will have to look into that. I’m still a newbie at this game!
Can I do that on Kraken Pro? And is there an idiots guide to what it is?
Google kraken limit orders/fees/ etc, the knowledge base is really good.
Yes you can use kraken pro but I would start on the website, it is a lot easier to get used to. Basically if you buy on the main kraken buy screen, at market, you give them a few percent as a ‘spread’ which is their fee. They don’t charge an actual fee for this but they take a little slice of your trade.
Limit orders essentially say buy or sell at a certain price. I.e you could create a limit buy for 1 bitcoin at 30k, and when the market hits that price it will buy, and if you create a limit sell for 1 bitcoin at 40k it will sell. Different fees for whether you ‘make’ or ‘take’ the order but ignore this for now. It’s basically 0.0something percent which is a lot less, and means you can play at taking profit - market buy/sells end up costing you 5% or so so you need a lot of swing to make it worthwhile. There are caveats to this but the kraken knowledge base explains it all.
Once you understand it all you can involve things like conditional closes which make trading really easy, you can use things like stop loss/take profit orders to make it a bit more ‘hands free’ which is really important with crypto as those of us who can’t spend the day watching it miss out on a lot. Keeps some of the emotion out of it too, which is good.
How does it work with Kraken, if you want to convert your crypto back to 'real' money?
In eToro it's a very quick 'close position'. Is it similar with Kraken?
Are Coinbase Pro limit orders fees similarly low? I signed up to it but the above suggests I probably should have gone with Kraken or Binance.
I also thought Coinbase accepted bank transfer?
Do all these crypto-currencies waste a load of electricity to be created?
Bitcoin is certainly an outstandingly disastrous idea, in a world that is meant to be addressing severe climate change...
The power consumption of Bitcoin is about 75TWh/year. That’s *dodgy back of the envelope maffs* equivalent of pointlessly turning on fifty billion electric fires and then running air conditioning to cool the room down again.
I don’t want any involvement in it and urge everyone else to avoid it for the same reason
Exactly... but after one response the issue gets ignored because people want to get rich but Bitcoin and rich people aren’t great if you are hoping to avoid climate breakdown.
I read that Bitcoin uses about half the power that Youtube does.
What about the environmental impact of watching cat videos?
I read that Bitcoin uses about half the power that Youtube does.
What about the environmental impact of watching cat videos?
You just saved my sanity
In eToro it’s a very quick ‘close position’. Is it similar with Kraken?
Etoro is a bit crappy for this IMO, you don’t actually own the coins, and you can’t really trade properly. You just close the entire position and lose out on the spread and I think also quite a hefty fee? Kraken allows you to sell at market, which is essentially the same as closing a position on etoro, but allows you to sell just a bit or all, and allows you to do more advanced stuff. Bear in mind you also have withdrawal fees to get your money back into your Fiat account on top.
If say you wanted to take some profit on etoro, you’d have to close the whole position, then open a new one for the smaller amount and lose out on the spread again, and suffer the $5 withdrawal fee if you want to realise that profit back to your bank account.
I couldn’t get Coinbase to work - uk bank transfers no longer allowed possibly due to the rule changes this year. You have to buy btc using a debit card and then it’s 3.75%, but you can then trade that on the Coinbase pro platform.
I was reading up and went with Kraken, not regretting it.....so simple!
Bought more Ethereum earlier when it went super low, hopefully it’ll be a good thing that will pay dividends.... I did buy at the weekend and then it slumped so I do have around £40 to break even but I’m looking at the longer game 👍
I read that Bitcoin uses about half the power that Youtube does.
What about the environmental impact of watching cat videos?
You could engage in all kinds of whatabouary, but it doesn’t reduce the carbon footprint of other reprehensible activities.
Do all these crypto-currencies waste a load of electricity to be created?
Bitcoin is certainly an outstandingly disastrous idea, in a world that is meant to be addressing severe climate change…
Bitcoin relies on a concept called Proof of Work where transactions deliberately require a high level of computational effort as a means of security.
I think Ethereum and others use a concept called Proof of Stake, which is faster and less intensive.