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Even Footflaps agrees that digital currency is coming whether anyone likes it or not.
maybe i missed it - but i dont think he suggested that would would be shifting to 100% digital currency / blockchain
- anyone that wants local currency cash to die off is part of this problem more than the advent of digital currency.
- i mean even now what you state happens - hence why folks hide cash in other tangibles - Gold/Classic cars/property
maybe i missed it – but i dont think he suggested that would would be shifting to 100% digital currency / blockchain
I CBA going back through the entire thread but I'm pretty sure they've said several times that there is no point in open crypto-currencies because governments will soon be releasing their own digital currencies and banning the open ones.
– anyone that wants local currency cash to die off is part of this problem more than the advent of digital currency.
One thing that I've realised over the years is that no one gives a shit what you, me, or any normal person wants. Companies want our data and our money. Governments want whatever companies want.
– i mean even now what you state happens – hence why folks hide cash in other tangibles – Gold/Classic cars/property
Yes, but with the advent of government backed digital currencies that could well become a thing of the past. Not only will the government be able to track each and every currency unit they will be able to require you to attach a record of exactly what you spent it on.
Blockchain analysis software will be able to spot any suspicious activity and apply penalties automatically.
This is why China wants to ban open crypto.
Governments around the world will see the level of control China can now exert over it's citizens and decide they want a piece of that. All in the name of catching drug dealers and pedophiles, of course. Knowing everything about every part of your life will be necessary to keep everyone safe.
If they couldn't get ID cards through UK parliament, I doubt they'd vote through surveillance of every single financial transaction of every citizen.
It won't be advertised as a surveillance method. If this thread has taught us nothing it's that most people don't understand crypto/blockchain/digital currency and are reluctant to even try to learn anything.
It'll be promoted as an easy safe way of paying for things (oh, and of course catching pedophiles, you aren't in favour of pedophiles, are you?) and the joys of blockchain analysis, non-fungible currency, etc will only become apparent afterwards.
CBA going back through the entire thread but I’m pretty sure they’ve said several times that there is no point in open crypto-currencies because governments will soon be releasing their own digital currencies and banning the open ones.
What's that got to do with anything I wrote ?
What’s that got to do with anything I wrote ?
I quoted the bit I was replying to. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
Or possibly cultural differences are an issue. I live in Norway where the vast majority of transactions are cashless. In fact, I would say being able to use cash at all only has a few years left as we are likely to follow Sweden if they end cash transactions in the next couple of years.
Personally, I haven't touched a bank note in years so it could just be that the end of physical cash is a reality to me in a way people in the UK can't imagine yet.
It won’t be advertised as a surveillance method. If this thread has taught us nothing it’s that most people don’t understand crypto/blockchain/digital currency and are reluctant to even try to learn anything.
Except you can already do that with Bitcoin et.al. (albeit there's a stumbling block in identifying who owns the wallet you cans ee the money ending up in). But then would anyone not be shocked if the CIA/GCHQ hadn't found a way around that?
‘Oh, you have savings? Well, we’ve decided that we aren’t too keen on savings at the moment so you can either spend your savings or in six months time it will be worth half what it is now. But of course, it’s entirely up to you.’
Are you arguing for crypto or fiat at this point? Because I'm sure if Boris is looking into it then he won't be basing the new British wealth distribution on your ability to buy up RTX3060's off CCL and ebuyer. It'll be issued by the BoE and they'll still issue as much or as little as they fancy.
Who do you trust more, the CCP, or some proto-crypto-anarchist who bought into Bitcoin over a decade before this thread started and now owns 80% of it, but you don't know who they are or what their motives are? Better the enemy you know.
[Maybe or maybe-not hypothesizing straw man content]
I mean.... if you were the kind of person who thought money was concentrated in all the wrong hands, and you had the mathematical skills to create a cryptocurrency, which you knew would be bought up by people with money they could afford to lose (the very definition of money being in the wrong hands), then what could the end game actually be? For all we actually know the whole ponzi scheme could be a decade-long financial terrorism plot!
[/Maybe or maybe-not hypothesizing straw man content]
Yes, but with the advent of government backed digital currencies that could well become a thing of the past. Not only will the government be able to track each and every currency unit they will be able to require you to attach a record of exactly what you spent it on.
have you met the tax man ?
Who do you trust more, the CCP, or some proto-crypto-anarchist who bought into Bitcoin over a decade before this thread started and now owns 80% of it, but you don’t know who they are or what their motives are? Better the enemy you know
No one 'controls' bitcoin. Also, no one owns 80% of it. The largest wallet (Binance's cold wallet) owns 1.6%.
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
So the question is not if I trust a single proto-crypto-anarchist over the CCP, it's whether I trust a lot of individuals with their own priorities over the CCP, and the answer to that is I absolutely trust a group of individuals over the CCP.
have you met the tax man ?
Yes, and with CBDCs and no alternatives he will be living in all our heads 24 hours per day.
Except you can already do that with Bitcoin et.al. (albeit there’s a stumbling block in identifying who owns the wallet you cans ee the money ending up in). But then would anyone not be shocked if the CIA/GCHQ hadn’t found a way around that?
They have, and it's made it a lot easier to trace money around than it would be via fiat and conventional banking:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/technology/bitcoin-untraceable-pipeline-ransomware.html
Ms. Haun added that the speed with which the Justice Department seized most of the ransom was “groundbreaking” precisely because of the hackers’ use of cryptocurrency. In contrast, she said, getting records from banks often requires months or years of navigating paperwork and bureaucracy, especially when those banks are overseas.
Yes, and with CBDCs and no alternatives he will be living in all our heads 24 hours per day.
Whilst I'd be anti extra surveillance. I'm not sure an increased ability to evade tax is an upside of anything.
No one ‘controls’ bitcoin. Also, no one owns 80% of it. The largest wallet (Binance’s cold wallet) owns 1.6%.
Hyperbole turned out to be hyperbolic. But from your link 80% seems to be owned by 0.05% of wallets. Even if a proportion of those are in essence banks, a quick scroll down the list shows that at least half the front page aren't. Hardly a democracy.
They have, and it’s made it a lot easier to trace money around than it would be via fiat and conventional banking:
It's possible.
However, if the FBI has a secret way to compromise BTC wallets I wonder why they chose to reveal it's existence to recover $2.2 million dollars?
I think it's more likely that they used the FBI equivalent of a $5 wrench attack to access the wallet.
But from your link 80% seems to be owned by 0.05% of wallets. Even if a proportion of those are in essence banks, a quick scroll down the list shows that at least half the front page aren’t. Hardly a democracy.
Something like less than 1% of wallets own 85% of BTC. Where a market is so cornered one has to has doubts over the veracity of its true worth.
Yeah it was reported that they didn't hack the wallet, they just obtained the key. Darkside don't seem to have been the most sophisticated operators.
But even so, the FBI were at their door in a matter of days.
Whilst I’d be anti extra surveillance. I’m not sure an increased ability to evade tax is an upside of anything.
It's not just about evading tax. With a non-fungible currency you can make currency more or less valuable. You can time limit currency. You can make it conditional on being spent in certain ways.
The opportunities for government manipulation if you have a CBDC and no other alternatives are endless.
But from your link 80% seems to be owned by 0.05% of wallets. Even if a proportion of those are in essence banks, a quick scroll down the list shows that at least half the front page aren’t. Hardly a democracy.
True, but isn't that just reflective of wealth distribution in general? How much wealth do the top 0.05% in the world control?
Also, BTC is still in the very early stages of adoption. The very very very early adopters were able to grab a large share. In order for the value to continue going up more people will have to acquire it. In order for that to happen the top holders will have to give up some of their holdings. This is a large part of the reason the price varies so much. In order to widen adoption BTC has to be sold which causes the price to drop. As people buy the available BTC the price starts to rise and people become reluctant to sell until one of the big holders releases more BTC and so the cycle continues.
So yeah, it could be a giant ponzi. However, fiat could also be a giant ponzi. It's difficult to tell if you've made the wrong decision until after it's too late, normally.
Anyway, I'm sticking with 10% of my savings being in crypto and working on my trading bots.
Personally, I haven’t touched a bank note in years so it could just be that the end of physical cash is a reality to me in a way people in the UK can’t imagine yet.
Nope, it's more or less the same here. I've had the same cash sitting in my wallet for over a year now.
Perhaps like others I've rather lost track of the argument you are making BruceWee, but my feeling is you are too cynical regarding western government motives. As already stated, they do already have a lot of power regarding the value of our savings. If you're worried about your savings disappearing overnight then "open" cryptocurrencies would currently seem to be one of the worst place to keep it..
Perhaps like others I’ve rather lost track of the argument you are making BruceWee, but my feeling is you are too cynical regarding western government motives.
Yeah, it's a big subject and it touches on philosophical debates about how we attribute value to things.
I actually started off down the rabbit hole because I was shocked at our electricity bills while working from home. I looked at this 1500W electric heater I use to heat the basement and started wondering if I could use a mining rig to heat the house instead of just pumping electricity through metal bars.
I'm planning on putting an old laptop in a metal container filled with mineral oil and using it to mine Monero to see how much heat it can generate and how much money it can make next winter (Monero is designed to work with CPU mining rather than GPU or ASICS).
From there I just kept reading and decided to invest.
From there I discovered I could make my own trading bots.
The point is that there isn't a single reason I got into crypto. At this point it's probably more of a hobby than an investment for me.
So yeah, I find the entire field fascinating. In addition, I don't trust governments of large countries with low levels of accountability so it's a match made in heaven 🙂
In order for the value to continue going up more people will have to acquire it.
So yeah, it could be a giant ponzi.
So it has the defining characteristic of a Pyramid/Ponzi scheme, and it could be a Ponzi scheme. Walks like a duck?
So it has the defining characteristic of a Pyramid/Ponzi scheme, and it could be a Ponzi scheme. Walks like a duck?
Yes, fine. It's a ponzi. Happy now?
I won't bother asking you to justify why fiat isn't a ponzi because I know that the answer is, 'Because the government have promised us it isn't!'
This is now page 17 and I see the same protestors are still hell bent on stopping people from actually talking about crypto so I'll leave you to it.
From there I discovered I could make my own trading bots.
This has the potential to be very interesting.
I had looked at bots but I'm not that computer savvy. I found someone showing people how to program them on python but that was way beyond my skill level.
How do you do yours? Do you litterally create them from scratch or are there commercially available (and reasonably priced?) ones you can adapt, setting your own rules for them to follow and suchlike? How do you link them into an exchange (and which ones can you do this with?)
Is this a reasonably straightforward thing from the average laymen or do you need to be pretty good with computers? I've got some rules which appear to working (ie I made a small profit doing it manually) but unless I can automate it I'd have to sit at the computer 24hrs a day and I don't want to do that
I actually started off down the rabbit hole because I was shocked at our electricity bills while working from home. I looked at this 1500W electric heater I use to heat the basement and started wondering if I could use a mining rig to heat the house instead of just pumping electricity through metal bars
An interesting point! And one which is often overlooked... e.g. the overall energy efficiency gained by use of LED lightbulbs is eroded in the winter, when the reduced heat output will instead need to be generated by the central heating system....
I use 3commas.io. It takes a bit of getting your head round to start with but it's the easiest way to get into automated trading, imo.
A good place to start would be The Trading Parrot on YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrqilwm_w0Jww188AyxBq7w
Take what he says with a pinch of salt, particularly when it comes to returns, but he has some good introduction videos.
You can set up your own buy signals but the QFL strategy that comes as standard with the Gordon bot is actually one of the most profitable or at least that's what I've found so far.
Now I'm working on my own signals generated on TradingView to trigger the buy and sell signals.
I probably will end up making my own bot in python (just for fun more than anything else) but so far I'm pretty happy with 3commas.
In a cashless CBDC future.....
I'd like a copy of the Apple newspaper please. That will be 10 sats
Thankyou for your payment.
I'd like a copy of the Apple newspaper please. That will be 10 dRMB.
Sorry sir - your payment has been rejected. Have you been watching too much youtube about the recent HK protests?
Next please.
I'd like a copy of the Apple newspaper please. That will be 10 dRMB.
Thankyou for your payment.
Feel free to substitute 'Apple newspaper' with other words such as food/transportation/public library/unvaccinated.
Feel free to substitute 'watching Youtube' with you're Coloured/Asian/White/Muslim/Catholic/Uyghur
bitcoin/eth/ tokens created on an open blockchain (created by nerds) is permissionless - just like cash. CBDC will most certainly not be. Whitelist and Blacklist will be words of the future.
I believe NFTs are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way...
🙂
I believe NFTs are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way…
🙂
I thought NFT's were for selling digital artwork? In which case is this the digital equivalent of buying something with the rear wheel off Jimmy Saville's bike?
How will the UK market respond to NONCEfinance?
How will the UK market respond to NONCEfinance?
It's still in it's infancy. I'll wait until it's more developed even if it does offer an attractive spread position, could get you in trouble right now if you opt to pump and dump.
People still buying on the dip? Pretty big dip if so, but still plenty of profit for people who got in early. Anyone who bought Bitcoin at ~$60k must be sweating.
I'll be chucking another £50 in on pay-day. It's beer-money investment gambling for me, not life savings.
Same as the-muffin-man for me.
Although this month I'm gonna probably send the money to Kraken and sit on it there, until deciding to buy rather than buying as soon as the money arrives.
Anyone with nice tingly feelings over the last 2 weeks?
I bought some AUDIO half way through a youtube video. It had me at 'fairer spotify'.
Followed my own advice regarding ETH and ADA announcements.
To be fair - throwing at a dart board would have given me the same result with the current bull market.
I also heard the Taliban aren't happy that the US have frozen the Afghanistan Govt reserves that were held with them.
@Earl - yes, very much so. I'm currently up 136% in the last month - LUNA, ETH, ADA and SOL have all done very well for me recently. Only slightly annoyed that we didn't have any spare cash to buy the dip.
I wish I had had more spare cash too. SOL has done mental in the last month.
I noticed Audio yesterday and it reminded me of the conversation about crypto I had with a young lad while out on a group ride in the woods at the start of April, which actually prompted me to splash my toes in the crypto sea.
Yes watching ADA climb has been good the past few days. Thanks to that, and also ATOM, I'm no longer in the red with crypto. I only started buying crypto as things were already high around April/May. During the dip, converted some of it to XLM and transferred out of coinbase, then split between ADA and ATOM and staked it.
A long way from a new bike though. Possibly a good 2nd wheel if I find a bargain lol.
For those already in, by the time this thread starts really kicking again and people are talking about profits we'll have made lots of money, should be looking for the top and selling to stablecoins ready to buy back in later on in the bear market and repeat. Don't be the bag holder. Happy green candle days!
Yeah, I'm currently up on all of my crypto investments.
I am still putting a bit in every month.
I have been looking into FIRO over the last few days, but it's not available on Kraken so I need to look at where it is available and decide whether I want to set up an account on another exchange.
I noticed on my PayPal today you can buy and hold four flavours of crypto. I'm sure that will have sucked in some new speculators.
Took some profit from ADA the other day, bought me a Tele and Apple TV for the pain cave whilst still leaving my original investment in so happy with that.
I’ve not read any of this thread before, going by the theory that having not bought any Bitcoin 10 or more years ago, now is not the time. However, reading this page I cannot tell if any of it is for real or not. It reads like the Mornington Crescent thread.
There are a number of accounts that give you interest on your crypto currencies. The rates are quite high and if you are investing in Crypto then it make sense to be gaining interest whilst you are holding them and waiting for them to rise...
Nexo is one
I'm in for the long-game. Got no interest in making short terms gains as I'm not active enough to trade at the right times.
Currently sat at £600 profit from £700 put in. Not the best, but decent.
Whacking about £50 a month in.
For me it's ETH, ADA and SC (Siacoin as a 'they're dirt cheap but being crypto it may go balistic!').
But it's all one massive gamble! 🙂
should be looking for the top and selling to stablecoins ready to buy back in later on in the bear market and repeat. Don’t be the bag holder.
I did that when Ethereum hit £2.2k again, sold half of it with a buy order a £2k to increase my holding when it dipped. Still waiting...
There are a number of accounts that give you interest on your crypto currencies. The rates are quite high and if you are investing in Crypto then it make sense to be gaining interest whilst you are holding them and waiting for them to rise…
I use Blockfi for that. Appear to be fairly reputable but as I guess with all crypto things don't put all your eggs in one basket, I've half my stuff there and half on Coinbase.
Currently 5% on Ether, 8% on some stablecoins, 4.5% on Bitcoin and a bit less on a few others.
If anyone wants to use it you get a wee bonus if you use my refer a friend thingy (disclosure, so do I)
https://blockfi.com/?ref=dd67ec53
andrewh
Free MemberI did that when Ethereum hit £2.2k again, sold half of it with a buy order a £2k to increase my holding when it dipped. Still waiting…
This hurts. Why? Nothing was pointing to an immediate reversal.