[Closed] how do comparable public / private sector jobs differ?

Thus if there is a deficit in the future the [s]government[/s] tax payer has to make it good as it has not saved or invested the current surplus.

Fixed that for you.

[TJ - in fact that the current NHS pension scheme is not a "fund", payments go into general treasury revenues, and current and future payments out of the same, unlike a hypothecated pension "fund". The NHS Scheme is, by definition, "unfunded"

The fact that the scheme is currently in suplus is irrelevant This has occurred because increasing staff numbers have generated higher total employer contributions, leading to the current net cash surplus but giving rise to higher future pension obligations - which stand at about 287 billion quid total liabilities. The only ways for the NHS scheme to remain in "surplus" into the future are for the NHS headcount to continue to grow exponentially, for the contributions in per head to rise, or the benefits out to reduce.

Simple economics! Look upon it as similar to the First law of Thermodynamics.

The surplus is a current surplus. More money is paid in in contributions than is paid out now

So what! [b]The actual issue is whether the people currently contributing are contributing enough to cover future payments[/b].

There are some very gullible people on here who believe tory lies and propaganda as the truth

I feel rather sorry for you

The NHS pension fund has been reformed

those liabilities are over many decades and are a tiny % of GDP ie very easily affordable.

Reduce the pensions and benefit payments will have to be made instead - the average NHS pension is hardly enough to take people oput of benefits as it is.

dmjb4

I suggest you actually read up on how the NHS scheme works and apply a little scepticism to the tory propaganda you accept so willingly

There are some very gullible people on here who believe tory lies and propaganda as the truth

I feel rather sorry for you

TJ - there are currently 1.3million active NHS pension scheme members, there are about half a million deferred members, and there are about 650k pensioners in payment at the moment.

Can you not see, that in the future, the NHS scheme will have to find enough money to pay for nearly three times as many people as are currently being paid - the fact its [u]currently[/u] in surplus is completely and utterly irrelevant!

I suggest you actually read up on how the NHS scheme works

Actually TJ - it might be worth you taking your own advice, since you've claimed above that there is an NHS pension fund!

tiny % of GDP

Oh, you can tell what future GDP is now can you TJ? I mean, after all, you are aware that UKGDP can fall as well as rise?

those liabilities are over many decades

That is exactly the problem. We've had the maths discussion on another thread. No one is actually arguing to simply reduce public sector pensions - we are simply saying that the current promises are unfunded and unaffordable. Either they must become funded (i.e. defined contribution) or the contributions must rise massively to reflect the promises and the cost of the implicit guarantee provided by the Govt OR, yes, the pension terms must be reduced.

Do you know how much the cost of a guarantee takes from the returns on such a bond or equity fund?

dmjb4 - Member

No one is actually arguing to simply reduce public sector pensions -

we are simply saying that the current promises are unfunded and unaffordable.

Interesting thread but very few close comparisons to get anything meaningful from.

Can't say I've got much to add but I do work in the private sector (IT consultancy) and have recently been trying to recruit a couple of mid-level server analysts and it's a bit of an eye-opener when you get people applying from the public sector. They're usually much more experienced and seeking a lower wage however that experience is usually in out-dated technology or very specific (not in demand) areas and they don't have certs to back it up with. I get that the public sector likely don't fund much training/certification but if you want to move on you need to take some personal responsibility.

That said most of the people applying from the private sector were jokers to (inexperienced yet asking for top whack pay). The only CVs I was impressed with were from Indians over here on Tier 1 visas, they all seem to have relevant experience, good certs and realistic pay demands...

Interesting thread but very few close comparisons to get anything meaningful from.

Yup. Plenty banging their drums but they've not committed to the original question, rather they've gone on again about we should have our pensions effected.

Back to the original post
I was NHS. left to go to the private sector for a similar job, technical. Result was
- nearly £10k wage boost
- company car
- company phone
- lost around 5 days/year holidays
- out of pension fund and had to make own arrangements
- conditions of work changed without consulatation
- worked on a saturday to help company move premises, paid in pizza and beer
- overtime paid as money (when it was for clients), time off in lieu not allowed
- did a couple of courses, got certified
- paid an on-call allowance

Left that job, frelanced for a while then found myself going back in to the NHS,
- about the same wasges as the private sector, but now as a manager with several staff
- project management work as well
- responsibility for £Million project
- got my 5 days holidays back
- no paid overtime, it's time off in lieu
- no certification on courses (and not many external courses)
- back in NHS pension
- not paid for out of hours work or on-call, but as the machinery I'm responsible for impacts directly on patent care, I am contactable (using my personal mobile) and will do what I can

So, the money's worse in the public sector, but the conditions were better. I suspect that may be changing though.

I see that's pretty much how it is, the public sector have very good terms and conditions. These are under threat so if we loose those and have lower wagers then it's not as nice balance.

No they are not. You need to stop believing the propaganda

NHS fund about 2 billion in the black, I understand, all paid for by current employees and surplus will be being used by the government. By my reckoning that makes it the very opposite of unfunded and unaffordable.

You need to stop believing the propaganda