[Closed] How do atoms last forever ?

how can he be [b]in[/b] the church debating whether he should be allowed [b]in[/b] or not?

If you mean in a socially acceptable way, then the same as I could walk into the girls changing room and debate whether I should really be allowed in there or not. If you mean in a physical, can a higgs boson actually be in any 3 dimensional object, where the dimensions are height, width, and depth, then I'm not really sure how.

oh so it wasn't a 'quantum mechanics joke' then?

" It's an enigma wrapped in a lie."

I like that

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They have got to be made up of something or we'll disappear in a puff of logic

And what is this 'something' of which you speak?

Try pushing two magnets together with the same poles facing. Sure feels like there's 'something' squishy in the way, doesn't it?

[img] [/img]

Yup they last forever, still have a set on my commute bike

As I understand it, an atom is made up of a nucleus of neutrons and protons, with a load of electrons orbiting it.

Well this understanding is what, maybe more than a hundred years out of date?

As others have said, quantum mechanics changed our view of what a particle is, although the big problem is that there is no agreement within this discipline as to how to explain the results of quantum experiments.

There are still paradoxes within QM to be resolved, but what I still see in much writing is this need to believe in particles, however small or fundamental. We need to think in terms of whole systems, and maybe we also need to let go of our need for thinking of time and space as fundamental aspects of reality too.

All IMHO of course 😀

It's a great question, but then so many aspects of our cosmos are still a mystery to us, it's great to explore these things huh?

That diagram is completely wrong......

.......everyone know electrons are orange, not green

And don't forget, every 1 in a billion times someone stabs a knife into some butter, the blade goes between the nucleus and proton of an atom and the butter spontaneously combusts.

If people went around sticking knives into fissionable material with the same regularity they do with butter, the earth would have turned into a star by now. That's what all stars are, planets where people stabbed thorium-232 just once too often.

We need to think in terms of whole systems, and maybe we also need to let go of our need for thinking of time and space as fundamental aspects of reality too

You're not a scientist, are you?

These 'whole systems' are so complex that they could never be understood fully. We know how a brain cell works, but the human mind? Forget it.

If I remember according to Dr Cox in his last series current thinking in some circles is that at a totally unimaginable point in the future the final proton will decay and that's yer lot, all gone no where. Just ceased to be.

You're not a scientist, are you?

I guess I am not a scientist in the same way that James Lovelock, Basil Hiley and David Bohm were not scientists then 🙂

My old physics essay would answer this if I can find it...

Nothing last forever.

Beware of quantum ducks......

Quark Quark

If I remember according to Dr Cox in his last series current thinking in some circles is that at a totally unimaginable point in the future the final proton will decay and that's yer lot, all gone no where. Just ceased to be.

True, I saw the same thing in that episode of Futurama where the professor builds a time machine that only goes forward, where billions and trillions of years into the future, the last proton decays. So it must be true.

molgrips - Member

....We know how a brain cell works....

actually we don't 🙄
we have a fair understanding how some components of some cells found is some brains function on a biochemical and electrochemical level,
we have less understanding of how these components interact in any physiologically significant environment,
we have almost no understanding of how these interactions maintain a functional biological unit we label 'a brain cell'

As Simon said, reductionist science has has it's day and made it's contribution, but we need to start thinking integrally (or holistically if you like) or our (theoretical) scientific advances are just going to consist of making up new names &/or numbers for 'things we don't understand' or to 'make the equations work'

As for the planetry model of atomic structure, please don't tell me that is [i]still[/i] being taught at anything higher than junior school level 🙄

at a totally unimaginable point in the future

I just imagined it. Does that make me some kind of genius? Where do I go do collect the cheque?

I guess I am not a scientist in the same way that James Lovelock, Basil Hiley and David Bohm were not scientists then

I don't think they were starting from the same point as we all are 🙂

Not saying you are wrong, but your post was rather glib.

As Simon said, reductionist science has has it's day and made it's contribution, but we need to start thinking integrally (or holistically if you like) or our (theoretical) scientific advances are just going to

Had its day?

Saying we need A instead of B is rather simplistic, don't you think? What area are you talking about?

E=mc^2

but is c constant?

molgrips - Member

Had its day?

Saying we need A instead of B is rather simplistic, don't you think? What area are you talking about?

Yes, had it's day 🙂
Reductionist techniques have taught 'us' a lot about our world, it's place in the universe and the creatures that inhabit it etc.
But, and IMO it's a BIG but, it is now proving to be a barrier to advancement (in Life Sciences) as, on an operational front it discourages cross disciplinary exchanges and encourages a "big fish, small pond" way of thinking in which research groups are increasingly encouraged to become 'centres of expertise' rather than collaborators in larger projects.
On the scientific front, it is becoming ever more apparent that (again in Life Sciences) that the 'mini-machine' view of life is just not applicable to anything other than the most elementary of systems, and often only when these systems are investigated out of context.
There is a need to increase contextual scientific studies rather than divide the existing field of knowledge into ever decreasing areas of study if any useful new information is to be found, so 'turn the telescope around' if you like.
Life exists in context not detail, systems are important not components, environments/niches matter not species and so on...
And yes, I am being simplistic because primarily that's the way to start discussions, secondly it's a mixed audience and finally this is stw remember and the thread will descend into name calling/point scoring soon enough and I don't want to get drawn in too deeeeeep or I'll get distressed and Elfish 😉

Oh postscript, I meant 'as well as' rather than 'instead of' which is why I said "need to [i]start[/i] thinking..."

I'm taking my son for a tour around CERN for his birthday. He is a geek. I am thick. Can anyone suggest a kind of 'stick in the spokes' type thing I can do to their big particle machine thingy?

Can anyone suggest a kind of 'stick in the spokes' type thing I can do to their big particle machine thingy?

Sprinkle the place with holy water and watch those suckers buuuurrrrrrn 😈