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Its a question that`s bothered me for some time about archaeology. Just how dead do you need to be before its "OK" to dig up graves? 50 years? 100years? 500 years? where is the cut-off point?
I guess a better question is how old stuff has to be before doing stuff counts as archeology. Maybe it is like the tipping point from "vintage" to "antique"
I read somewhere it was a 100 years, so no one was left who knew the person personally.
There's no answer to this. it's tricky, You can get tangled up in all sorts of cultural offence. The answer is always get permission first, . Find descendants, find cultural representatives and be aware of disposing of the remains afterwards (give them a final say in what happens to the bones/mummies)
I guess a better question is how old stuff has to be before doing stuff counts as archeology. Maybe it is like the tipping point from “vintage” to “antique”
Thats the same question. So its ok to dig up a king from 1000 years ago, but if you dig up Aunty Vera that died 15 years ago you'd get arrested.
Glad I've chosen cremation
Vintage is generally 25 years, Antique is 100 years... got a mate in the trade
Glad I’ve chosen cremation
+1
and someone gets to hide my dust in some bog up a remote forest up a hill somewhere.
Glad I’ve chosen cremation
There's a memorial garden at Wendover where people scattered their loved ones ashes. Sadly it's on the HS2 route so is gone.
Glad I’ve chosen cremation
Thankfully so have most humans through history. We've Christianity (how will you be resurrected if you don't exist anymore) to thank for burials becoming a thing, it's surprisingly recently (1890-1900) that cremation was made popular (and legal) in the UK again.
Glad I’ve chosen cremation
+1. Cremation should be mandatory. Or; because cremation would cause more pollution, how about maceration and composting?
I think I'd quite like my ashes to be mixed into some concrete or something, so that my physical remains could then end up being part of a nice building somewhere. Or perhaps a motorway flyover.
We’ve Christianity (how will you be resurrected if you don’t exist anymore) to thank for burials becoming a thing
I think the opposition to cremation somewhat predates Christianity...
and someone gets to hide my dust in some bog up a remote forest up a hill somewhere
maceration and composting?
I think 2000AD had the best idea- resyk!
there is quite a lot of calorific value in a human once burning well, so just burn in the body in an EFW and generate some electricity, with the bonus of no ashes to worry about as the remains will be mixed in with tonnes of bottom ash. winner all round.
Its a question that`s bothered me for some time about archaeology. Just how dead do you need to be before its “OK” to dig up graves? 50 years? 100years? 500 years? where is the cut-off point?
God knows why, but I found myself talking to someone the other day about this...
The answer seems to be 'it depends' for example, when we die, if our loved ones decide to have us buried, you or they don't own the grave, they're buying a grant for exclusive burial and with so many of us being born and dying these days, the standard grant can be as short as 25 years. It can be renewed, and you'd hope your off-spring would outlast you by 25 years, but it's not always the case and 25 years after we die, if no one renews the grant your headstone could be removed and the plot re-used. But they can't remove your remains. You need a court order to exhume remains and a really good reason.
That's not always been the case though, in Cardiff we have 'Dead Man's Alley' a short path built in 1891, it cut through the ground of a Church that's stood in one form or other since around 1100 including it's grave yard. Even now, the graves it crosses over are undisturbed and marked.
I'd say if remains are discovered, or searched for because of a discovery of some historic documents or something, historians can excavate them because they're unmarked, but if it's a marked burial, they'd need a court order and a good reason, however old they are.
I'd happily be ground up and fed to starving animals or people.
My liver might be a bit chewy
Soylent Green
I read somewhere it was a 100 years, so no one was left who knew the person personally.
I believe this is correct.
Many years ago I was working on a building site in Bethnal Green, at one point, unexpectedly, the diggers started to drag up coffins and skeletons to the surface. And quite a lot of them.
An investigation discovered that back in the Victorian days there had been a workhouse on the site. Deceased residents were simply buried on the grounds of the workhouse. Many included children and babies, their tiny coffins were heart-wrenching.
Someone contacted the Daily Mirror which made it into a news story. It was however decided that the work could continue as the cemetery was over 100 years old and no living relatives were likely to be alive.*
The bones and pieces of coffins were collected and burnt in heaps, simply to acknowledge respect for the deceased. It wasn't straightforward and bits of bones/skeleton were everywhere, you could easily find yourself standing on part of someone's skull, for example.
Edit : * Sorry I mean no living relatives who knew them and are likely to be alive.
my physical remains could then end up being part of a nice building somewhere. Or perhaps a motorway flyover.
Upset the right/wrong people and that's a distinct possibility.
When I worked for the local council many moons ago I use to help out in the cemetery's grave digging if there was no tractor work and as oldmanmtb2 said a grave plot was for 100 years as it was deemed all close relatives would be dead by then. Though there were headstones that went much older than 100 years but then there were still a lot of empty plots available in the cemetery.
Just down the road from us they are digging up and reburying a fair few and finding all sorts of artifacts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59077550
Archaeologists have been working on the site and about 3,000 bodies have been removed from the church, which dates back to 1080, and will be reburied elsewhere.
I once discussed the potential for having sky burials in the Chilterns, you know something else the red kites could feast off...
There's an old graveyard behind the engineering block at Leeds. I was told by the prof that organised the landscaping of it that it was xx years after the last burial before you could do anything. They got parliamentary permission to act way before then as the place was dangerous and used some of the old gravestones to create a path and piled the rest in a corner and grew some grass over them.
I often think this when passing through the cemetery. Mainly, how long until the council sell it off to housing developers. These dead old dead people are taking up prime locations.
When I go they can put me in the bin for incineration at the veolia plant and generate some energy for the grid.
25 years after we die, if no one renews the grant your headstone could be removed and the plot re-used. But they can’t remove your remains.
Just squash your bits down a bit like a bin you can't be bothered take out yet?
I often think this when passing through the cemetery. Mainly, how long until the council sell it off to housing developers. These dead old dead people are taking up prime locations.
My dad (priest) did some exorcisms on a couple of houses that had been built on a saxon age burial ground 😬
My dad (priest) did some exorcisms on a couple of houses that had been built on a saxon age burial ground
did it work?
My youngest used to point at the cemetery as we passed and said that’s where the dead people live 👻
Free exorcisms with every house sold.
did it work?
Ask Carol Anne
did it work?
To my knowledge yes, but could just as easily been the new occupants being told what their house was built over having a "how do we solve this" moment without any appearance of ghosts or the like before the exorcisms.
but could just as easily been the new occupants being told what their house was built over having a “how do we solve this”
So Saxon demons weren't bothering them? How disappointing.
My mate had a job pushing gravestones over. Some kid had been hurt playing in a graveyard by a gravestone falling over. My mate wandered the graveyards of Edinburgh with some bit of kit to measure how wobbly the stones were. Anything past a certain amount of wobble he had to push over.
Probably the oddest job I've come across ever!
@FB-ATB 200ad and resyk +1. Might as well get some useful stuff out of me when I'm gone. It's not like I'm going to need my corneas when I'm dead!
I normally give it two weeks at least before grave-robbing. I'm not a monster.
My dad (priest) did some exorcisms on a couple of houses that had been built on a saxon age burial ground
.
did it work?
It appeared to for a while but then the houses got repossessed
t appeared to for a while but then the houses got repossessed
Bravo!!!
In the Uk there is some law about this - eg I knew I guy who studied bones and was allowed to dig up Napoleonic war dead in the UK.
It appeared to for a while but then the houses got repossessed
I heard the banks got spooked and decided to call in the debt. They can be so ghoulish sometimes.
We own a small graveyard and headstones need to be left in place 100 years but can be moved sooner with family permission. As mentioned above some are unstable and have to be laid down or repaired. I usually repair them as it looks better. Not sure about digging them up. I've had to do a fair bit of digging to remove brambles and old tree stumps but I've not needed to go down very deep yet. Does feel a bit wierd going at a grave with a pick axe and shovel.
My dad (priest) did some exorcisms on a couple of houses
Never go into a warehouse during a full moon!
On coffins, modern coffins last about 5 years before rotting away yet I've done re-openers where the first coffin have been buried 10's of years and made out of solid wood and they were as strong as the day they went in.
I also helped to exhume a body so it could be examined by the police. always remember that as the grave was shielded with tarpaulin and half a dozen coppers standing around watching and the police coroner present.
That repossessed joke deserves more love
We own a small graveyard
Wait; what?
How does anyone get to 'own' a graveyard? I mean, did you buy it? Was it land attached to a property you bought?
WE NEED ANSWERS!
I want a graveyard... 🙁
When I die I want my remains to be spread over the South Downs. I don’t want to be cremated though.