[Closed] How bad is this recession?

Christ, open you eyes!

Whole retail companies are going under, pubs are closing down at a rate of nearly 4 a day, car dealers are lying to themselves, and tradesmen are far more amenable to discounts and haggling!

By Canary Wharf, there is a massive billboard, advertising an auction service for repossessed properties. Whole office blocks are empty.

something like almost 2 million people are currently unemployed, with this figure set to increase to over 3 million, in the next year or so. Remember the last time we had that level of unemployment?

And there aren't any manufacturing industries left, to close down...

Wakey wakey. It's Finest Colombian.

Over here in Vancouver Canada house prices have dropped 30%, my company laid off 1/3 its staff, a few car dealers have folded and you can't get a full-time job unless you kill someone.

IMO it is bad - but is also being well overstated.

In the eighties recession unemployment if counted as it is now would have been 5 million+ at peak.

I think the major reason its being shouted about so much is that its affecting the middle class much more than previous ones

In the 80s there was yes high unemployment but there were plenty of jobs on offer. Just saying that through my own experience and others that i know who lost their jobs in the 80s. Personally i think the 80s affected only parts of the country whereas todays affects us all where ever we reside... Its definitely not overstated 🙄

I don't see much change round here - few shops have closed but only ones that weren't doing that well anyway. Pubs and shops still seem busy.

The first wave was when all the companies that were running on borrowings had to cut back or close down.

The next wave of the recession will come soon when previously profitable companies start shedding staff because of reduced demand. I see this happening in my local area - there's quite a few doing 4 day weeks, including my wife's firm. I doubt she'll have a job by June.

Then we will see some real downward pressure on the housing market when people in previously safe jobs either can't keep up their payments or can't refinance.

The latest budget isn't going to help. I'm a great believer in taxing the rich, but realist enough to know that it's not smart to drive them out of the country with heavy taxes. (They have already placed their money elsewhere by now because interest rates here provide a poor return on investment)

IMO it is bad - but is also being well overstated.

In the eighties recession unemployment if counted as it is now would have been 5 million+ at peak.

I think the major reason its being shouted about so much is that its affecting the middle class much more than previous ones

Agreed, my business has about 10 months left in it, without any improvement it's goodnight Vienna.

Economics chappy said it was bad becuase normally its just the companies that are just about afloat that get hit and go, but they said this recession, lots of companies who are profitable are going, companies who make good money are seeing banks call in loans that don't need to be called in and so companies are closing even tho they have full order books

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Tant pis.

Sheffield now doesn't feel like Sheffield in the 80s yet, and I don't expect it to.

It's bad. It's noticeable. But I think it's been hugely compounded by the media's coverage of it. Scare tactics and sensationalism. It's bound to have had a severe knock on effect on people's spending.

Christ, open you eyes!

Whole retail companies are going under, pubs are closing down at a rate of nearly 4 a day, car dealers are lying to themselves, and tradesmen are far more amenable to discounts and haggling!

By Canary Wharf, there is a massive billboard, advertising an auction service for repossessed properties. Whole office blocks are empty.

something like almost 2 million people are currently unemployed, with this figure set to increase to over 3 million, in the next year or so. Remember the last time we had that level of unemployment?

And there aren't any manufacturing industries left, to close down...

Wakey wakey. It's Finest Colombian.

Maybe a touch dramatic, but not wrong on the whole.

Unemployment reached 2 million a couple of weeks ago though, remember being sat watching the news the day before the job interview I had (which I got offered) and wondering if I was going to remain a statistic for too much longer! They also predict the unemployment figure to reach 3 million by the beginning of 2010, so less than 9 months!

LOL @ "no manufacturing industries left to close down"... Sad but true! The ONLY way to survive in Manufacturing in the UK is to make a product that is so niche/unique/better than all the competition, otherwise you're screwed. I know of several manufacturing companies locally that have gone under recently.

Never in my lifetime either have I known so many boarded up shops (not just the old Woolworths shops either) all over the high streets.

The biggest problem though is that this whole situation is self perpetuating. We have NO CONFIDENCE in our govt. to sort this problem out (well surprise surprise!), and they're proving us right. Which means the problem is going to carry on getting worse and worse for some time yet. Look at the USA, where they at least have a govt. they now believe in for the most part, their economy is at least slowing down in decline if not making a healthy recovery yet, but the UK's economy is probably suffering the most of any out there (Zimbabwe aside) due to lack of faith in the govt.

TandemJeremy - Member

IMO it is bad - but is also being well overstated.

In the eighties recession unemployment if counted as it is now would have been 5 million+ at peak.

I think the major reason its being shouted about so much is that its affecting the middle class much more than previous ones

Hmmm... I agree about the fact it's probably affecting the middle class more than previous recessions, but is the answer to get us out of recession to penalise anybody with enough foresight to put some money away for the rainy days too?

Bring on a good old bout of high inflation yet stagnating house prices I say!

Where are the mass repossessions, the whole industries closed down (mining, steel, ship building etc), the mass unemployment and so on that we witnessed before.

Yeah it really is bad.

If it doesn't seem as bad as it's been before that's only because firstly, unemployment has only just reached the levels it was when the Tories were last in power.

Industries such mining, steel, ship building etc were all destroyed a long time ago by the Tories, and never re-built.

And finally this government is, unlike the Tories which pushed interest rates sky-high (15%) taking some small steps to actually help the situation.

Expect things to get really bad in 12 months time when the Tories are back in power.

but is the answer to get us out of recession to penalise anybody with enough foresight to put some money away for the rainy days too?

Exactly what I did, I knew this recession would happen sooner or later and having been through two recessions I tucked away quite a few thousand to support the business through hard times, I'm earning **** all interest on it now.

I find it I interesting that the 80s recession was supposedly because an economy based on making stuff was out of date. Now the economy based on buying Chinese goods with borrowed Chinese money has turned out to be pants, we're all supposed to panic. Well forgive me for thinking that it was all very predictable.

When are they going to tow london to the mid atlantic and sink it, that's what I want to know.

When are they going to tow london to the mid atlantic and sink it, that's what I want to know.

Most of the MPs which took the decision to back a policy of moving away from manufacturing, didn't actually come from London.

When are they going to tow london to the mid atlantic and sink it, that's what I want to know.

No need... Keep burning fossil fuels in an irresponsible manner, don't recycle, waste electricity, London will soon disappear under the Thames/North Sea! 😉

Tant pis

First recession of the internet age therefor we all know quicker and harder; not to say we will come out of it quicker though 🙁 .

Boarded up shops? Hey I'm a Grocer; it was a long long time coming. There is waaay too much high rent small retail space available at the moment. Thats been on the cards for quite a while.

My bank god bless them sent me a letter withdrawing my $150K business loan. Sadly they sent it and REMOVED the loan on the same day so first thing i knew was my accountant having an eppy on the phone. Covered it by nicking 150K out my home mortgage - strangely they haven't said anything about that yet. In 2 weeks time i'll cash up all the other stuff and clean it all out. Shortly after that I am moving banks. This is for a business that is incredibly profitable but like all businesses has cash tied up until certain times (in our case end of tax year).

NZcol, that wouldnt be ANZ by any chance? I was over in NZ last week, and have an ANZ account, and the ****ers charged me 10 bucks per traqnsaction to use my own banks cash machines! I phoned up and they tole me to get over it, as I was technically in another country and had to face the charges. the bastards. I'm well considering changing.

Nah it was ASB. You get charged everywhere, i get charged for using non-ASB machines, 50c per transaction. Oz is $5 per transaction so works both ways.
Its just mental really, they have no concept of almost ending a company for such a stupid and blatant c0ck up. Amazes me they haven't bailed me up about using my revolving credit (yet)...

Up here in NE England it will have to go a hell of a long way yet to get anywhere near what it felt like in the 80s
At one point then every one of us [family of 6] was sacked with zero chance of finding another job
We all worked for different companies BTW

tradesmen are far more amenable to discounts and haggling!

Not down in the South East they're not. We need some work doing on our roof and we're looking for a sizable patio to be laid along with some other bits and bobs - landscaping, brickwork etc. There's a good week to two's worth of work.

Can I get anyone to come and even quote? It's like squeezing blood from a stone - it's taken two weeks and about 20 phone-calls as well as numerous messages left on answerphones / with secretaries etc. We've managed to get a couple of people to come out next week. Both times I've already been warned 'not to expect a start anytime soon'

Yeah local tradesman are struggling I mean we asked about getting some work done in January on our house because of the drop in trade the jumped at the chance, they're coming in August as that's the earliest they can do it.

Expect things to get really bad in 12 months time when the Tories are back in power

As they try and sort out the mess currently being swept under the carpet by the current Labour fools, so pretty much the same as last time Labour were in power....

As they try and sort out the mess currently being swept under the carpet by the current Labour fools

You think the Tories can solve the world financial crisis?

As they try and sort out the mess currently being swept under the carpet by the current Labour fools, so pretty much the same as last time Labour were in power....

In reality though, it is all bollox though, isn't it? Labour has turned into Tory and both sides have fallen in love with what they call 'free trade' and market liberalisation. They both talk the same rubbish, hold up a Rizla paper between themselves and say they have the best management. They're in love with the fat cats and don't give a damn about anyone outside their magic circle.

When Labour came in (after inventing themselves to be the New Tories) people thought this 'middle way' crap was going to be about capitalism and liberalism working hand-in-hand. Nah, it was just pure unfettered capitalism and look where that has got us.

As a way of looking at it think of both parties from, say, 25 years ago. Labour has changed massively (in the wrong direction IMHO) but the Tories look more or less the same.

Still, we get the governments we deserve.

YOu guys need to remenber that the way unemployment is calculated now is different to the eighties - the figure now is 20-40% higher than it would have been in the eighties ie 2 million now would have been 1.5 million then. Under current ways of counting unemployed the peak figure in the eighties would have been 5 million

Christ, open you eyes!

porterclough what they have never figured out down in London is that while they have all the money, we've got all the water. We just sit tight and see who cracks first

I think (and I could be wrong having been in school in the 90's), that the issue with this recession in length, not depth, and the fact that we no longer have some basic industries around that dig things out the ground, grow things in the ground, make something from the previous two, or provide a service that people need (not want). Without the underlying industries, and the massive debt we now face, and the fact that we import so much (so moving money out the country that could be kept here) - the way out is long, slow and slippery IMHO.
There are some areas of the country that do have the natural resources, and some of the basic industries, and they are doing OK at present - but I don't think its enough to prop up the other areas that are struggling and will continue to.

porterclough what they have never figured out down in London is that while they have all the money, we've got all the water. We just sit tight and see who cracks first

The next big hit will be job losses. The Govt are desparately trying to stop this happening in the public sector, but it is inevitable unfortunately. What needs to happen is to scrap some of the big projects, e.g. ID cards - a total waste of money in these times; Crossrail - demanded by the City, well they can f*^k off now; Trident would save a few bob too. Keep the projects that employ lots of people though.

porterclough what they have never figured out down in London is that while they have all the money, we've got all the water. We just sit tight and see who cracks first

No problem, a new job creation scheme emptying bottles of Evian into the Thames Water reservoirs should see us win that one 😆

But seriously, having recently returned from 9 months in the Midlands, London doesn't seem to be as badly hit- cities with one or two large employers are very vulnerable, but London's diversity means there still seems to be work out there, albeit a lot of temporary stuff.

The Govt are desparately trying to stop this happening in the public sector, but it is inevitable unfortunately.

your right, I think, when you look into yesterdays budget, thats just about to happen. Those people who have been smug in there public sector jobs for the last six months better watch out !

My neighbour runs a profitable engineering company and was in the final bidding for a multi million $ deal. Needed to expand his factory by 1/3rd and get some new equipment. Bank refused a loan and cancelled his overdraft. There was no way he could now bid for any new work.

Fortunately he is successful enough to ride it out at the moment but that stopped a load of new jobs and business expansion. In other times there would have been no issue.

My personal experience is that I have been made redundant. For the previous 20 years I have been head hunted regularly. 8 weeks of looking and I have had a couple of 'speculative' interviews where they will call me when there is a need for more head count. One interview where I was given the job subject to them getting phase 2 didn't happen and when I phoined to find out why the guy who interviewed me had just been made redundent.

There is, i feel, a bit of a delayed reaction. For so long as people are still in work, they suddenly feel a little better off as their mortgage payments drop in line with interest rate cuts. As a result, there is probably some more spending going on than was the case when interest rates were uncontrollable climbing in the early 90s.

Other factors, people have also alluded to: (1) this is a middle class recession in the way that previous recessions have not been. People in my profession (law) are losing their jobs left right and centre (my shop is already on its third round of redundancies in 8 months) (2) this recession is linked to a collapse in the banking sector, which is drying up working capital from businesses, causing good businesses to fail quite quickly (3) the way out of this mess is not around the corner: we will be carrying this debt for so long it's unbelieveable. this will be the biggest limiter on economic recovery.

As I see it, the only obvious answer is the return of inflation in order to shrink the size of the debt.

I have been amused at the glum faces of the partners in the offices: they're all afected by the new higher rate income tax band. For some, it's like the 1980s all over again (the higher rate was only reduced to 40pc in 1988 - from 60pc)..!

(the higher rate was only reduced to 40pc in 1988 - from 60pc)..!

Wasn't the highest income tax rate 83% at one point?

Regardless of your political leanings, giving 83p out of the pound to the government is obscene

But it's only a certain rate above a certain figure though isn't it?
it's not [wasn't] 83p/60p/50p off every pound earned

If it gets a lot worse, I may have to sack my second under butler.

Does anyone know what the £XXXXXXXXXX that the govt have borrowed could physically buy? Like miles of motorways, or Hospitals or XTR Groupsets?

I know we borrowed a similar amount after WW2, but we had something to show for that. We kicked Hitler's arse.

A decent District General hospital is around £500 miliion I think. Motorway is 10 - 100 million a mile depending where it is built

something like that anyway.

But it's only a certain rate above a certain figure though isn't it?
it's not [wasn't] 83p/60p/50p off every pound earned

IIRC what is/was the 40% tax threshold was the 83% threshold i.e. anything above £35k would've been taxed at 83%

Getting bad this week, didn't manage to sell any eggs at the gate all week until today.
Usually sell a dozen a day, free range for £1.50/dozen. I can't drop the price, just have to eat more omlets then.

I work in the building sector & this is not as bad as the 80's crash.

But government borrowing scares me rigid. Would have been cheaper to have paid off everyone mortgage & let the banks crash & pick up the pieces.

So much for being [PRUDENT].

I'd be interestwed to see how spending on upmarket cycling gear has changed in the last 2 years.

I know everyones says they'r buying SLX because its so much better value than XT, but realisticly, LX was always better value than XT, is it not that you can no longer afford XT, so are buying the new SLX as its the same price as the old XT? And people that would have bought LX are now buying deore kit?

IIRC what is/was the 40% tax threshold was the 83% threshold i.e. anything above £35k would've been taxed at 83%

Wiki to the rescue..!

[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_Kingdom#History [/url]

i heard 'tother day, that the government have ANOTHER problem

they borrowed £10bn to ease the recession, and now the people they borrowied it off want it back....

firstly, surely they should learn that borrowing isnt the answer?
secondly, ide love to meet this handful of people who have £10bn between them in money from down the back of the sofa...

there are a lot of big flash cars being sold it seems to me.
i blame those people.... (not bitter, much)

i may have got this all wrong though....

In 1974 the top-rate of income tax increased to its highest rate since the war, 83%. This applied to incomes over £20,000, and combined with a 15% surcharge on 'un-earned' income (investments and dividends) could add to a 98% marginal rate of personal income tax. In 1974, just 750,000 people were eligible to pay the top-rate of income tax. [6] Margaret Thatcher, who favoured indirect taxation reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s. [7] In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top-rate was reduced from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%. [8]. The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets - to 29% in the 1986 budget, 27% in 1987 and to 25% in 1988. [9]. The top-rate of income tax was cut to 40% in the 1988 budget.

98%! Thank goodness for Thatcher.... 😉

Anyone who has to ask " Is this recession as bad as the one in the 80's", clearly did not live in the north (of London) in the 80's.

personally this time doesn't seam as bad as 80's or 90's 80's was at secoundary school and remember lots of my mums and dads friends being out of work for quite some time and nowhere near as bad as the 90's got made redundant at the end of my apprenticeship and was out of work for about 18 months and as i have got a job and it's stable at the mo and i can afford my mortgage (no 16-16% intrest rates this time),i live in the south east and my work takes me all over the south east and havn't come across many firm about to fold etc.

Just wait untill the stagflation later on this/next year.

[i]TJ - "YOu guys need to remenber that the way unemployment is calculated now is different to the eighties - the figure now is 20-40% higher than it would have been in the eighties ie 2 million now would have been 1.5 million then. Under current ways of counting unemployed the peak figure in the eighties would have been 5 million"[/i]

All sounds very plausible TJ until you factor in that 16-18 year olds aren't counted in the current unemployment figures, the fact there are more 18-25 year olds unemployed now despite the billions the government wasted on "new deal", the 3m people languishing on incapacity benefit, and the 6-7m people of working age who aren't in education, employment or training. All of which seem pretty compelling evidence that the UK is royally ****ed.

All of which seem pretty compelling evidence that the UK is royally ****ed.

I'm sure it might well be 'pretty compelling evidence' ........ but I'll be ****ed if I can understand it 😯

Using [i]your[/i] figures Farmer_John, what do [i]you[/i] claim the 'true' level of unemployment is ? 😕

According to the ever-reliable Daily Mash, the recession is [url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/christ-on-a-bike%2c-says-britain-200904231723/ ]THIS BAD[/url]. 😉

Can't be bothered to read all of that!
Jus tell me...are we talking recession of hair lines or the whole economy thingummuy?? 😉

I joined JObcentre Plus in the early eighties and have have seen various booms & busts. This one has happened far quicker than anything else I've seen, and spread through more sectors than others. At the moment my job is visiting companies and giving redundancy talks, sorting out re-training etc etc. Its sole destroying to see all the people being made redundant or being put onto short time working....but.......... there are the first signs of the rate of redundancies slowing, we've been quieter over the last 2 weeks (I hope that wasn't a 'murray Walker' statement!) claim numbers are starting to slow up in the offices, and we've got more people signing off & starting work than in recent months. Who knows if this is the end of the begining, or its the tide going out before the tsunami hits us!

We had a bit of a talk about this in our management meeting today as to how his is affecting our company generally, strangely we all did not think it was not that bad!. now in fairness we are in electronics manufacture and came to the conclusion that its been so bad for us for so long that this hasn't been that noticable! To qualify that, 10 years ago there were 400+ companies like us in the UK, now probably about 50. The Chinese have killed us and we survive by being good at what we do (most of the time). What this has really meant is that we react VERY quickly to our market and can "cut our cloth" when needed. A good example was us going to a four day week, it took us less than a week to restructure our production (no job losses and no drop in pay), the savings were due to reduced power and water use and being a bit more hard arsed with our customers. We've seen a reduction in business but we will just deal with it, we have to. What we see now has been a long time coming and this forum has spoken about it before it all kicked off (house prices, buying stuff you don't really need, blah, blah). I personally have put enough cash aside to cover me for a good while if it goes belly up, could have bought a flash motor but decided that it probably won't feed my kids. Not being smug just been in this potential position for a long time....

indeed...where is the inflation to go with all of this ? why are we not seeing inflation... it MUST happen in this economic climate..

Out of 22 shops in the same street as my shop, 6 are empty. 2 years ago when I started all were full and doing good business. I haven't been affected personally by the current recession.... I couldn't afford a house before and I can't now.

Liverpool seems to be doing better than ever in the last year or so, the highstreet is always full of shoppers and the place is looking better than ever. Though apparently Liverpool is one of the worst placed for riding out the recession. I'm a student at the moment, so I guess I'm seeing it all from one perspective, a mate who's an engineer has just had a meeting about how his company is going 'survive' but he didn't think it was all that important.

Unemployment reached 2 million a couple of weeks ago though, remember being sat watching the news the day before the job interview I had (which I got offered) and wondering if I was going to remain a statistic for too much longer! They also predict the unemployment figure to reach 3 million by the beginning of 2010, so less than 9 months!

If you factor in the people not claiming dole because of Nu Labour's stat-fudge, the figure is approx 8 million.

If anyone is under the illusion that things are going to go anywhere other than down for the forseable future, just bear in mind that the UK plc is effectively bankrupt.

Per-capita we have a 6-fold greater debt than the US.

Or banks have no ability to borrow. Building societies can't borrow. Tax revenues will actually FALL despite the budget.

We've seen Phase I (Reduction in avaiable capital). Phase II (redundancies) is starting - I've got many mates who have had their notice, or awaiting their notice and those are highly paid people. Phase III hasn't arrived. That's the 'depression' of the 80's that some remember.

Sad fact is that this IS way worse than the 80's depression. NOT media hype!! And we sold our house in 2003 on the basis of this event. The fact that I'm not an economist and could see that 6 years ago puts the levels of talent in government into perspective!!!

Good luck to all.

At the moment my job is visiting companies and giving redundancy talks, sorting out re-training etc etc. Its sole destroying to see all the people being made redundant or being put onto short time working

Maybe you should travel between these companies using a bike or car then 😉

Or at least charge them a shoe allowance! 😆

People are generally confusing two things, the hole in public finance and recession. The fact that they overlie each other (and interact)encourages the confusion but they have their origins in diferent places.

That is why we can see the country coming out of recession in the next year to 18 months and a general feel good factor returning and at the same time require massive cuts in public expenditure for many years to come.

The level of debt is now (relatively) equivalent to the end of WW2 and if i recall correctly, we've only recently finished paying that off.

So how bad is this this recession? wrong question.

bartat, well put.

Do we imagine that Gordon Brown will hold an election before the latest date of june 2010??

if there is a sharp, early (autumn) upturn in the economy and a return of the feel good factor then an early Spring election could be on before what is going to happen to jobs in the public sector becomes truly apparent and cripples the Labour vote.

But odds on, May 2010 for me.

Bartat

Nice optimism.

What do you think will provoke the upturn in economy then?

Not only is UK plc bankrupt, the public themselves are way overborrowed. In a nation where lending to consumers and businesses alike isn't happening.

In a nation where 25% of jobs are in the state ( not revenue generating and funded from tax).

It will be quite a while before we see the bottom ( we're not even close)let alone the recovery!!!

mikertriod - you do seem to know waht you are talking about but it seems overly pessimistic to me.

I think more fuss is being made because its affecting white coller types more than in previous times.

You are totally out on your unemplyment stats tho - that would mean in the early eighties 12 million people out of work!

well, seeing as we are all going to hell in a handcart.

i'm off riding.

TandemJ

Don't think I'm wrong there mate!

If anything it's more than 7.9m now.

The govt have reduced that figure by careful manipulation of stats, creation of non- jobs, use of incapacity benefit, artificially boosting student numbers that would previously not qualify in full term education and discounting part time employment.

Despite being thick as mince ( to emerge from 15 years of 'growth' and be in this level of mess takes some doing!), Chairman Brown has a team of capable fraudsters at his disposal. We'll never see the real figure.

Thing is mikerdriod - you do know that the tories systematically manipulated unemployment stats during the eighties to reduce the count by 1/3 or so and that the labour party actually restored the count to the method that counts higher and is more accurate.

Not that you could be accused of bias in any way of course.

I am, afraid on this one I am sure you are wrong. the number of unemployed is still far less than at the tory peak

Does anyone know what the £XXXXXXXXXX that the govt have borrowed could physically buy? Like miles of motorways, or Hospitals or XTR Groupsets

Yes. I have been doing the maths on that today

It would buy 1 Yumeya groupset.

TandemJ

I'm not saying the Tories didn't do similar. I'm just commenting on the unemployment levels of the UK.

I AM wrong on my figure as that is about two months old. It's no doubt over 8 million now.

you know a figure is becoming significant when people start debating its validity

do any of you actually believe that statistical spin is an exclusive trait of any one political party?

silverpigeon - Member

Does anyone know what the £XXXXXXXXXX that the govt have borrowed could physically buy? Like miles of motorways, or Hospitals or XTR Groupsets

Yes. I have been doing the maths on that today

It would buy 1 Yumeya groupset.

😆 😆 😆 😆

Does anyone know what the £XXXXXXXXXX that the govt have borrowed could physically buy? Like miles of motorways, or Hospitals or XTR Groupsets?

Probably 200 M class star-ships of a mass of 63,000 metric tons each dependent on the exchange rate. Capable of atmospheric re-entries and for surface landings. The micrometeorite and particulate shielding is sufficient enough to withstand rough re-entries.

Possible downsides are the Laretel WF-15 2.8 Terawatt fusion reactor. A tad troublesome, the newer P class star ships use the Laratel ZN-5 reactor which has a significantly longer Meantime Between Failures. But we'd oly get 80 of those....

IMHO Its bad and but its going to get worse, for a few reasons firstly apart from Financial services Britain doesnt own much to pull it out of recession, Financial services have been affected directly of course and indirectly by the global downturn and reputationaly - Browns changes to the UK regulatory framework were catastrophic.The collapse of sterling will help exports a little but we will be vunerable to further foreign investment/takeover in particular the LSE which Germany and the USA have been interested in buying for years, once the uk is downgraded as a debtor the interest rates will increase. As a nation we are severly in debt and we have an incompetent labour government who despite receiving an excellent economy described as "golden legacy" have succeeded through taxation and red tape increases to make our country totally uncompetitive and practically bankrupt (standard labour performance then!)Despite all the extra taxation they have largely wasted all the money squeezed out of taxpayers in a series of mistakes instead of consolidating the nations finances with a warchest for a rainy day. There seems little cause for any optimism to help start a recovery - increasing stimulus by borrowing more to spend our way out of it via the Public sector can not really be taken much further without literally bankrupting the Uk, in any case having a huge unproductive (in many senses!) Public sector is not really desirable when its already so disproportionately large compared to your productive Private sector - despite what all the Labour tssers keep saying!

What needs to happen is to scrap some of the big projects, e.g. ID cards - a total waste of money in these times; Crossrail - demanded by the City, well they can f*^k off now

indeed...where is the inflation to go with all of this ? why are we not seeing inflation... it MUST happen in this economic climate..

sirJohn

Spot on!

As for inflation/deflation:

Job cuts, wage freezes/cuts, house price instability, reduction in car prices, decrease in consumer goods prices all contribute to deflation. Despite the government's attempt to flood the markets with available capital to kick start the economy, inflation won't be with us just yet.

However when it does, I think inflation will be aggressive, drive up interest rates and we'll be back seeing 14% mortgage rates etc.

A lot of pain for many yet to come.