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Having moved to the Uk from abroad I have a definite belief that the drivers in the Uk are more aggressive and less caring than home.
Adding to that the only two cars that came very close to wiping me out while training in Spain this Spring were GB reg'd cars. I've felt safer driving and riding in undeveloped countries than I have here sometimes.
I firmly believe that Uk drivers don't give a rats ass about me when I'm driving or riding - so I pay as much attention as I can. Still won't stop me having one or two close calls on my ride home through the city.
And I don't buy the whole "British drivers are so good compared to everyone else" crap
They are probably more aggressive than many but we do seem to take it more seriously than most - perhaps this is the problem. You can't argue with the stats though, our roads are some of the safest in Europe and possibly the world.
Adding to that the only two cars that came very close to wiping me out while training in Spain this Spring were GB reg'd cars
Maybe driving too close to the verge due to being on the wrong side of the lane? It's disorientating.
LOL - the cars that passed me too close when I was riding in spain had GB stickers
That's what I mean - the car drivers. Being on the wrong side of the car relative to the lane can bugger up your lane position if you're not careful. But then again.. you'd tend to drive too close to the middle rather than the verge...
anyway, when I said "fancy little Audi" I meant exactly that. A1 (little) with an S badge (fancy) on it.
Because more often than not an Audi is involved.
...
That's an interesting theory.
I do wonder if this is self-fulfilling, you know.
I had an E-class Merc for a while (snagged it when it entered the company car pool, it used to belong to a Director). It was a great car, but the level of contempt and hostility it attracted was just incredible. People just don't give you an inch; no-one gives way if they can possibly help it, and indicating just serves to tip people off so that they close gaps and box you in rather than let you out.
In the end I found myself driving to stereotype, having to be more assertive than usual and not indicate as much just so I could get anywhere. Ie, it wasn't the car, it was everyone else's attitude to the car that turned me into a Mercedes (BWM, Audi etc) Driver. Soon as I swapped to an Astra van everyone was nice as pie again. Very odd.
if bus/rail travel was as hugely subsidised as car travel, it could be amazing
A point I often make in less enlightened circles.
There is a progression in these things, parking is an example- there was a time that sports SUV's chose parent and baby parking spaces then moving up to disabled parking spaces, they now appear to ignore actual parking spaces altogether including reserved ones and just park right across the entrance to the our local tesco's, its a matter of time before their through the door!
I was going to write Audi or BMW actually
I tend to agree with you actually. There are a lot of "racing" Audis on the road these days. But the biggest cock by a country mile I've seen in recent months was actually driving a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo around Towcester. I've seen him twice and both times he was driving like a complete c*** by any standards. Anybody on here?
In the end I found myself driving to stereotype, having to be more assertive than usual and not indicate as much just so I could get anywhere. Ie, it wasn't the car, it was everyone else's attitude to the car that turned me into a Mercedes (BWM, Audi etc) Driver.
The only time I've personally taken note of any Merc drivers was on the bike as a large number of them seemed to be elderly and not very switched on, making them oblivious. I can see what you're saying but that doesn't account for the motorway tail gaters or fast lane hoggers, a disproportionate of whom drive Audi's and BMW's. In my experience.
You want contempt.
I once hired a full size camper van . Holy shit ive never been cut up so often or so badly.
I am much more zen now I drive round in a van. Maybe it's because other van drivers let me out at junctions or that being higher up and so able to see what's going better is less frustrating - and I can't see tailgaters if they are properly close so why worry. Possibly, because the van is not exactly quick there is no point rushing to get anywhere now.
In fact, I really don't like using mrs ODs car even if it's more comfortable, it's like being dropped back into madness.
crikey, where are you from? British drivers are at times shocking
I grew up and learnt to drive in South Africa, so British roads are a walk in the park.
This was news not long before I left to move back to the UK:
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/hockey-stick-was-weapon-in-road-rage-death-1.51293#.VHdY3PmDm-0
I have seen two drivers pull over on the hard shoulder as traffic was travelling past at 70mph, and start having a go. One had a pick-up, and grabbed a plank from the back, I'm not sure what the other bloke was brandishing (many people carry baseball bats in their car. Or a gun). Then we can get on to drunk driving, speeding in traffic, ill maintained cars, the Saturday nights spent listing to the drag racing through the suburbs etc. etc.
And some recent gems:
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Cop-in-dock-over-KZN-road-rage-shooting-20141106
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Biker-road-rage-trial-to-start-in-January-20140930
My philosophy is to just be relaxed behind the wheel. People are people, and there is nothing you can do to change that. As Cougar points out - it can become self fulfilling.
I've recently done my motorbike lessons and test, that is an eye opener! Hadn't realised how bad people's driving standards and attitudes had become until I had to grow eyes in every orrafice and look at other drivers.
Think I struggled to find anyone actually driving within the law and was more bothered about failing my test due to somebody else driving like a tool than I was about my own ability to control the machine. scary!
PS... the downside of being high up in the van is being able to see all the idiots texting (or whatever) on their phones. I don't think that drivers are deliberately trying to hit me when I'm on my bike, but worry that some tosser updating their facebook status will take me out without even seeing me.
Drove to London and back yesterday (from Yorkshire) and the amount of idiot/angry drivers was disconcerting.
I moved to London a year back and the standard of driving (and cycling) down here really is terrible. If you want to see agression and anger at rush hour then try the southern approach to the Blackwall tunnel any weekday morning between 06:30 and 09:00.
Age of ego
I like that MalvernRider. I may steal it!
Because more often than not an Audi is involved.
I'm not sure if this is confirmation bias or just complete shite...
Yes, I drive an Audi and no I'm not a cock behind the wheel. I have had people crash into me and tell me it's my fault because I'm an Audi driver though... Funny really seeing as I stayed in my lane and they swerved into mine... Same kind of attitude as you JimJam...?
It really feels like it's getting worse. Personally I'd rather not even drive anymore - train is a much nicer way to travel, or cycling on quiet roads.
Interestingly, the commuter trains and Tube in London which are the traditional preserve of lousy behaviour, are getting nicer and nicer - there's almost a competition to be polite and do the English 'sorry' thing. Lots of standing up for pregnant ladies and helping people carry luggage up and down stairs. I think people are tired of feeling stressed and isolated - and being nice to other people is an antidote.
Cars are fundamentally unhealthy - physical, mental, social. They bring great benefits when used appropriately but current usage patterns are excessive and unnecessary. The sooner we get back out of our cars and back on the streets with each other, the better IMO
jamj1974I'm not sure if this is confirmation bias or just complete shite...
I tell you what, do a google image search for Audi meme. Actually I'll do it for you
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Now, the mere fact that there are thousands of images in circulation about Audi drivers beings dicks doesn't mean that Audi drivers are all dicks but it indicates some sort of phenomena. There's no smoke without fire, and most cliches have some truth to them. I realise that I am probably now more sensitive to Audi and BMW drivers "habbits" due to a minority of drivers behaving in a pretty terrible way, but it happens to be the case that a lot of asshole drivers seem to drive Audi's.
Same kind of attitude as you JimJam...?
Yes I regularly crash into audi drivers and blame them for being at fault 🙄
If I wanted to blame an Audi driver for a crash all I'd have to do is touch my brakes on the motorway.
The sooner we get back out of our cars and back on the streets with each other, the better IMO
Agree with that.
You want contempt.I once hired a full size camper van . Holy shit ive never been cut up so often or so badly.
Try running a Driving School, I'm seriously looking for another job because of the idiots on the road.
there seems to be a huge rise in young women drivers who seem to use their car as a weapon, just randomly aiming at other cars to get past, then when they crash they ring their dad/boyfreind and cry like a child. Seen that a few times.
also middle aged men driving like prats, trying to emulate clarkson but without any skill.
There's an awful lot of reverse snobbery too when it comes to Audis / BMWs etc but they all too often do live up to the negative expectation. Maybe it's the company car mentality? But then that would imply an awful lot of Mondeo/Passat driving dickheads on the road too and if I'm honest I haven't seen that many of those in proportion to the Audi types.
Plenty of other "stereotype" driving cocks to choose from anyway e.g. senile pensioner in Micra, white van man, boy racer Corsa, school run mum, etc, etc. The latter can be pretty scary outside our local school.
While we are bashing premium German cars. There seems to be a misconception that all Audi and BMW cars have a self destruct mechanism triggered by flicking the indicator stalk. [b]This is untrue[/b]
I drive a Mercedes, which is another German brand that appears to attract bad drivers, but it does seem to be the case that a lot of BMW and (especially) Audi drivers do live up to the negative stereotype.
Good thread OP - I agree that this time of year seems to bring out the worst in people on the roads
It's not called the rat race for nothing
Be nice to see some stats rather than anecdotal evidence...
Generally on my west London cycle commute there are a number of drivers/ vehicles/ brands that do seem to fit stereotypes, mostly gained through slightly unpleasant personal experience:
[b]Women from middle 20s -late 30s[/b] = the worst, most aggressive drivers on the road, usually driving a [b]BMW Mini[/b].
[b]BMW 1 series[/b] - 20s/ 30s males and females = "making progress" I believe its called
[b]Minicab drivers[/b] - usually a MPV such as a [b]Vauxhall Zafira[/b] or [b]VW Sharan[/b] - actually the Addison Lee guys have been pretty well brought to heel after the enormous level of bad publicity that they got a couple of years ago.
[b]Seat[/b] drivers - they must now believe that they're the baddest asses on the road, more so than [b]Audi[/b] (which tend to be particularly awful on motorways).
Modern [b]Volvo[/b] cars - they must believe that they're driving the new version of those TWR racing 850 estates
[b]SUVs[/b] - doesn't matter what brand, all of them - often driven either by [b]diminutive Asian women or blondes[/b]
If you think London is bad never drive in or near Portsmouth.
Red lights are seen as a vague indicator that you may need to slow to 50 as you came it through.
Slip road barging is seemingly the norm along with the usual last minute lane swappers and people forcing their way into traffic by simply driving into moving traffic from side roads.
After that, London seems much more polite to me, it's just a lot busier so can seem hectic.
Try running a Driving School, I'm seriously looking for another job because of the idiots on the road.
Oh the ironing! 😆
Strange thing with Audi being the badge of choice for today's estate agents is they (audi) once ran an advertising campaign positioning themselves as the car for more considered people a direct dig at BMW who at the time were for brash loads amoney types.
Here you go...
How things have changed!
Ha, had totally forgotten that ad!
Audis just make me think of the ad they used to (still do maybe) have on the radio with a guy with a really, really smug voice.
Its just a machine FFS and nothing to do with you, it just happens to be the thing your driving
Too true.
This thread is another sad indictment of how we are willing to depersonalise people and see them as something we ascribe negative values too. No different to the actions of some people who want to drive cyclists off the road because they have seen a couple of RLJ'ers or that we don't pay "road tax".
It's all balls. You can only judge each person in each situation as and when it happens. We may as well see all young black men as criminals, all Asian men as paedophiles and all blondes as dizzy. Stereotyping isn't just unhelpful and lazy. It often leads to a lot of negativity and excuses for excessive and bad behaviour.
There are measurable as well as anecdotal correlations between certain car types and people groups to act in one way or another, probably true for people on bikes too but no ones taken the time to measure it because just doest matter if your on a bike.
Its just a machine FFS and nothing to do with you, it just happens to be the thing your driving
There's no two ways about it; Audis are often bought by the sorts of people who take themselves too seriously. It's all here: https://yougov.co.uk/profiler#/Audi/demographics 😀
We may as well see all young black men as criminals, all Asian men as paedophiles and all blondes as dizzy.
This isn't quite the same. Being black isn't a choice. Buying an Audi is; there's more of a chance you're going to be a bit of a ****
self selection the marketeers wet dream.
5pm on a Friday has to be the worst time for attitude drivers round these parts.
Yes I think it getting worse.
I have a roundabout off a large hospital to navigate on my bike on my commute home, catch that at clocking off time, is like watching the start of a Formula 1 race entering the first bend!
This isn't quite the same. Being black isn't a choice. Buying an Audi is; there's more of a chance you're going to be a bit of a ****
Of course it isn't but the sense of stereotyping is exactly the same - no sense in it.
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Might this ad have been a hugely successful misfire? The viewer is making the positive association between the horrible yuppie and the Audi right up until the last few seconds where there's the reveal/twist. You could just dub/recut the last few seconds and it'd be a perfect parody for today's Audi driver.
jamj1974This thread is another sad indictment of how we are willing to depersonalise people and see them as something we ascribe negative values too. You can only judge each person in each situation as and when it happens. We may as well see all young black men as criminals, all Asian men as paedophiles
Maybe your heart is in the right place but I don't see stereotyping Audi drivers as aggressive, successful young white men as being the same as racism. Racism is an irrational hatred or prejudice against someone based on the colour of their skin. People the world over are discriminated against and murdered because of it.
Stereotyping Audi drivers as tail gating tossers, because a certain portion of them drive like tossers won't cost anyone their lives or their jobs, or their happiness.
Shabby and aggressive driving is definitely on the rise but it's a gentle upward curve ime.
Each year the roads seem to get a little more crowded and every peak journey a bit longer and I am sure the bad mood from one autumn carries from one year to the next and just gets a little worse.
9 years ago when I started my current job I could do the 35 mile car commute in the same time a 20 mile commute now takes me since i moved house. I travel 18 miles of that on the same route that I used to use before the only real difference is I join the motorway about 15 miles sooner now and the couple of miles from home to motorway is usually pretty clear.
Thank **** for the trains. 3 or 4 days a week away from the traffic 😀
Stereotyping Audi drivers as tail gating tossers, because a certain portion of them drive like tossers won't cost anyone their lives or their jobs, or their happiness.
No, it won't. Can't argue with that. Not sure must of them where I live in Brum are driven by white young men though!
I just don't like stereotypes - I don't think they are an aid to finding the truth in any situation. They are way too convenient and open to abuse. As I indicated I've suffered from the sterotype when no fault was mine - so being on the receiving end is bound to make me more than a little sensitive...
I think I've made my point though so I'll shut up.
Anyway its the merc drivers who are all ****s imo!
Stereotyping is for people who don't have the intelligence to understand nuance and evidence-based analysis. It's nasty stuff and a favourite tool of autocrats and dictators for several millennia. Ask any Jews you know...
Choice of brand of car is tightly linked with ego needs and status so whilst stereotyping is unhelpful there may well be some similarities of underlying psychology which drivers of certain brands have in common. For e.g. why would you buy a big, macho-looking pickup called a 'Warrior' and with that word written in big letters on the back of it if you felt strong and secure in your own masculinity 😆
Same with a car which is vastly more powerful than you need given UK roads and speed limits... what, really, is the point of a car that does 120mph in a country where there is absolutely zero opportunity to drive above 70mph if it's not somekind of expression of your status? Insecure people tend to need these kind of status symbols and are therefore more likely to be inappropriately aggressive to hide their insecurity.... from that you get stereotyped behaviour. I don't think this is brand-specific, just leads to an observable tendency for people with powerful cars to also be the more aggressive drivers...
Had my first cycle commuting incident to draw blood this evening (I'm a London cycle commuter of one year). Caused by a cyclist who barged through a crowd of pedestrians and into me, catching my wrist with his bar ends. He was on a Specialized Sirrus. Say no more!