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She told me that around 90% of them all have a house and are on benefits etc.
Take a walk around just before dawn and you can see them still camped out and sleeping in all sorts of places.
I'll echo what a lot of folk have said. Most of those out begging are making a living out of it in Manchester. There are plenty of places where folk can get a bed and food for the night, but they choose to sleep rough.
The company my wife works for do regular 'head counts' and go round talking to the homeless, and most choose to live like that. The police and council advise not giving cash etc to them as it just goes on drugs and booze. Instead, give it to the charities that help re-build their lives. The places providing food and shelter have more than enough capacity I believe.
Instead, give it to the charities that help re-build their lives.
+1 my choice being Centrepoint
Re charities - not sure I can name many but I see lots of different organisations working with people at King’s Cross where I work. Most doing good work on the face of it, and I have donated from time to time. I guess my concern stems from the current state of affairs being normalised thereby somehow releasing the govt from its responsibility to sort out the underlying issues.
Was in Manchester a couple of months ago and it was REALLY bad
It's worse than any time I can recall and I can't imagine many of them are on £200 a day.
The company my wife works for do regular ‘head counts’ and go round talking to the homeless, and most choose to live like that.
Your wife works for the Tory party?
There are plenty of places where folk can get a bed and food for the night, but they choose to sleep rough.
... and George Orwell in Down and Out in London and Paris described exactly why so many choose not to 'accept' that 'charity' together with the shelter afforded with other street people a whole 86 years ago, after having lived like that himself.
Personally, if it was a choice between the Sally Army's proselytising during a night locked up with drug and disease ridden folk and a shop doorway, I'd probably take my chances in a doorway. If I died of hypothermia, at least it'd be of my own choosing.
This is not a private hotel room and room service being offered here. There are strings. Many folk on the street do not want company or to socialise or to be patronised.
The places providing food and shelter have more than enough capacity I believe.
I very, very much doubt this.
Most of those out begging are making a living out of it in Manchester...
...The police and council advise not giving cash etc to them as it just goes on drugs and booze.
So not exactly "making a living", more "begging to feed a habit"?
In London around 60% of the homeless are foreign nationals. A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.
source?
...and around 200,000 more people arriving here each year than we can realistically build accommodation for
source?
cheddarchallenged, your statements mean nothing without sources.
In London around 60% of the homeless are foreign nationals. A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.
So they are homeless but can raise enough money (and keep the passport up to date) to get across Europe and the Channel multiple times? I have a feeling that if it was my 'lifestyle' choice to spend my life on the streets then I'd probably head to somewhere a little warmer.
Sources - plenty more data for anyone who cares to look.
Trend in uk house building - see graph
https://fullfact.org/economy/house-building-england/
Trend in migration - consistently more people arriving than we can build housing for
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics
fussy Member
I’ll echo what a lot of folk have said. Most of those out begging are making a living out of it in Manchester. There are plenty of places where folk can get a bed and food for the night, but they choose to sleep rough.
The company my wife works for do regular ‘head counts’ and go round talking to the homeless, and most choose to live like that. The police and council advise not giving cash etc to them as it just goes on drugs and booze. Instead, give it to the charities that help re-build their lives. The places providing food and shelter have more than enough capacity I believe.
Woah there, just hold your horses a minute there Cowboy...!!!
The fella up ^^^^ there said they mostly went to their homes every night. Cant be both surely? And didn't he say they come swarming into town on the train on a Saturday morning?
In my experience very few choose to sleep rough..... I mean, it must be such a barrel of laughs this time of year so I 'pose you know best.
I've spoken to hundreds and hundreds of homeless people and a tiny minority choose to live on the streets.
I would be very interested to hear your wife's opinions and experiences on the issue? This company that your wife works for, does it have a name? Is it a company or a charity? Having volunteered for Crisis for the last 7 years I've yet to come across such a company.
Giving money to a homeless person that has dependency issues will probably stop them from breaking into your house and stealing your expensive laptop or iPad or similar. Sounds a good idea to bung them a couple of quid after you've had a chat.
Homelessness + drug/alcohol dependency + mental health issues = A very very complicated problem for society. Don't underestimate how close you and your loved ones are to finding yourselves in a similar situation.
LOLs & LOLs @ cheddarchallenged. Your "Plenty of Data" link doesn't work.
A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.
I've never met a single foreign homeless person that fits your narrative. Sauce please?
In London around 60% of the homeless are foreign nationals. A good number of these have been repatriated at our expense but return to the uk anyway – in some cases multiple times.
source?
Stephen Yaxley Lennon.
Homelessness + drug/alcohol dependency + mental health issues = A very very complicated problem for society. Don’t underestimate how close you and your loved ones are to finding yourselves in a similar situation.
Exactly.
I've noticed it's increased in a big way in Manchester.
Southend-on-sea is probably the worst I've seen. Walk round at night!
Homelessness may not be a choice, sleeping on the streets can be. Even with enough beds via a prominent charity in our town we still have a relatively large community of rough sleepers.
These individuals find the restrictions placed on them to stay overnight too hard to comply with.
When your life is so chaotic you choose sleeping under a stairwell over a bed then it’s obvious that it’s a complex problem to solve. Many of those caught in this cycle have mental health or trauma issues that take time and money to address.
What is clear is that it has become a lot more prominent in the last ten years
Depopulation courtesy of the Tories.
Oh and it seems to be predominately young white men.
Walking through Leeds today I was asked for some money to help him eat and find a bed for the night, he said "it's my birthday too" I asked him what today's date was but he didn't know. I asked him when his birthday was and he told me to f off.
I'm not saying he was homeless or not but he wasn't being truthful. His grey tracksuit and white trainers looked very clean for someone living on the streets.
As above, give money to homeless charities, not to individuals. I don't buy into the argument it will stop them robbing my house!
The sad truth is there are genuine homeless out there who need help but there are also people taking the p##s. Hard to work out which is which.
In some cities there is a policy that you cannot get food hand outs without a referral. This is because they need to understand why you can't manage on benefits or why you are not claiming them. The idea is that they will work with you to budget, get clean, find accommodation, teach you to cook, etc.
This has sadly identified a lot of trafficked people / modern slavery and also people who just want free food so they can buy essentials like cigerettes and alcohol.
Why can some people manage on benefits but others can't? We have a responsibility to these people to help them but in some cases, they don't want help or don't know they need help.
The government pledge to end homelessness by 2027 is interesting. Homeless isn't just an issue of not enough homes, it's far more complex than that.
It will be interesting to see what happens after Brexit.
I find it really sad some of the views people have about our fellow citizens who are having a hard time in life.
A good friend of mine is a Police officer in Leeds on a small team trying to solve homelessness in the city and all the issues surrounding it. She told me that around 90% of them all have a house and are on benefits etc. They can earn up to £200 a day from begging which is spent on alcohol/drugs. They even get groups of beggars travelling by train every weekend from smaller towns that come into the city on a weekend just to beg then travel back on a Sunday night.
She says they work to try offer them support with addiction problems but virtually every single one refuses to engage with services available to them.
as many have said waht a load of bolocks you speak, perhaps that small group of police would be better employed catching crimials and those who dont have road tax orinsurance on vehicles.
To claim benefits you have to have an address or home and a bank account,probbaly a very small minority do have both an adress and claim benefits,a lot dont, a lot cant afford the high rents and council taxe along with a deposit and food and and furniture.
Many years ago councils had council flats for people to live in at affordable rents, sadly those ahve all gone , mostly given to housing associuations or sold off, whats need is student type housing/hostels, individual basic rooms, with a few staff on site for security and care, with cleaners and washing machines for the residents, funded by Housing bebnnefits instead of housing benefits funding landlords bank accounts
I’ve noticed it’s increased in a big way in Manchester.
Manchester has a serious begging problem. No idea how many are homeless vs how many are "travelling in by train to go begging" as another poster said but the issue is extremely visible now.
It's one of the worst places in the country for spice as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/29/spice-lethal-epidemic-austerity-drug
To claim benefits you have to have an address or home and a bank account
"You can still claim benefits if you're sleeping on the streets or in a hostel, even if you don't have a fixed address or a bank account."
My wife and I went into Cardiff shopping last weekend for the first time in quite awhile, and both commented on the level of rough sleepers. There were people dossed down in doorways, and numerous tents out on the pavements ... there was literally a campsite outside St. Davids theatre. We unfortunately walked through David Morgan arcade as paramedics were pronouncing a homeless person dead outside one of the little shops.
As someone working in social services I can reliably state that homeless people are without doubt more visible in Cardiff than nearby Newport. Cardiff really is a magnet for homeless people.
The fella up ^^^^ there said they mostly went to their homes every night. Cant be both surely?
Schroedinger's rough-sleeper - simultaneously both sleeping rough and cosied up in a flat provided at massive tax-payer's expense.
There are also immigrants stealing our jobs and claiming benefits at the same time.
I was in Edinburgh and staying in Jurys. The police were moving them on from the hot air vents under the Scotsmans steps, stopped and watched till I was told to move on. Quietish street, no obvious alcohol on display, late at night all equals no need in my opinion.
A report for England has just been released.
Apparently overall numbers are slightly down on last year but up in London. Its has lots of caveats though but will be better for cities.
gov pdf
Yes there may be the odd one but 90% is utter bollocks.
It might be more than the odd one, but these are still vulnerable people, and are still sleeping rough for whatever reason, and there are undoubtedly more people forced to sleep rough now than there were a few years ago.
There's a BBC3 program on iplayer at the moment about "fake homeless" - whilst some police forces claimed 80% of people prosecuted in relation to begging/rough sleeping had homes, country wide the number of people prosecuted for antisocial behaviour offences who were sleeping rough was 45%, despite home office guidelines stating that rough sleepers were not to be prosecuted under these offences. It's not impossible that rough sleepers had somewhere to go, but what if that was a B&B full of drug and alcohol addicts - would you want to sleep there or would you sleep rough (regardless of whether you were yourself an addict)? Councils that claimed to offer a bed to everyone sleeping rough in fact it transpired would do "all they could" which appeared often to be to put you on a waiting list.
Also, if it's so profitable and easy, and you're so jealous of them, why not do it yourself? It's easy money, right?
Homelessness may not be a choice, sleeping on the streets can be. Even with enough beds via a prominent charity in our town we still have a relatively large community of rough sleepers.
These individuals find the restrictions placed on them to stay overnight too hard to comply with.
When your life is so chaotic you choose sleeping under a stairwell over a bed then it’s obvious that it’s a complex problem to solve. Many of those caught in this cycle have mental health or trauma issues that take time and money to address.
This is the right emotional response.
whilst some police forces claimed 80% of people prosecuted in relation to begging/rough sleeping had homes, country wide the number of people prosecuted for antisocial behaviour offences who were sleeping rough was 45%
Those numbers are not inconsistent. 80pc of people prosecuted in relation to begging/rough sleeping have homes. Also country wide the number of people prosecuted for antisocial behaviour offences who were sleeping rough was 45%.
I've no idea if they're correct or not but one doesn't contradict the other.
He's the show if anyone's interested (I haven't watched it):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06r9xbq
My partner volunteers for Bethany Christian Trust in Edinburgh, she was out last night with them.
It's the first time I've seen her truly upset and in tears when she came home.
They found a couple sleeping in a tent in Greyfriars Church yard, she was physically disabled and the man was unwell.
As far as she could make out they had been kicked out of there home after the woman had her disability benefits cut.
Absolutely disgusting for this to be happening in 2019.
Hopefully they will get something sorted for the couple today.
If anybody would like to contribute my partner is doing the Bethany Big Sleep Out in March
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/mairi-findlay?utm_campaign=pfp-share&utm_content=Mairi-Findlay&utm_medium=fundraisingpage&utm_source=Facebook&utm_term=Azyn2Y3Pr&fbclid=IwAR3li_xfueUl4OnML1dqMXQ7XdLKxJ8e3GG2OcClTCFifRpk8GQ_yFq1iUw
I’ve no idea if they’re correct or not but one doesn’t contradict the other.
Agreed, but they do imply it's more complex than some of the figures suggest.
And it begs the question why are they prosecuting the 20% who have nowhere to go and are rough sleeping?
Agreed, but they do imply it’s more complex than some of the figures suggest.
Yup, we've already established it's complex.
And it begs the question why are they prosecuting the 20% who have nowhere to go and are rough sleeping?
I have no idea, you posted the number.
A plea for donations to a local Charity from me too:
https://www.justgiving.com/stonepillow
https://stonepillow.org.uk/how-to-help/donate/
Sorry if this bothers anyone but GS started it!
To get an idea of what it could be like here after a hard Brexit as the associated job losses and cost increases, see the US. As above, San Francisco is an eye opener, with shanty towns under many bridges.
`Same old tories
So in Milton Keynes based upon my observations there has been an increase in the amount of homeless people here
I regularly travel through the centre by bike and there are often tents pitched in the underpasses - I also saw somebody living in a bus stop
Just recently one of the main spots where I used to see a number of tents has been vacated - I don't know if the people have just moved to a different location or whether they have been provided with accomodation etc.
I work for a social housing provider in the East Midlands.We also have a number of hostels and homes for people who are really down on their luck.
I see people in doorways any time I'm in Leicester, yet, there are always beds available at our homes if people seek them.
Many who sleep rough are mentally ill,or, more usually, drug or drink addicts, and would rather be on the streets, having no regimentation to their lives.
Only occasionally are homeless people thrown out of our homes due to them being abusive to staff and smashing up premises.If I was the boss, I'd be throwing them out immediately, but it isnt the policy to throw them out if they smash the windows, or kick down a door when have lost their keys.And it happens regularly, such that it is clearly not worth us carrying on doing it as a business, but, we do it as charitable help.
And , it is 99% men, genuine homeless women tend to get a room somewhere. I was in a womens refuge yesterday, only 4 of the 7 rooms were occupied.
The issue is complicated for sure.
Very often the people we see being referred by GPs or police have been previously housed by local authorities, and then for a variety of reasons have lost their tenancies for typically anti social behaviours .. this could be related to the people visiting the address or for failing to keep the place in a satisfactory condition; we have a person who hoards ... and as such cannot keep the accommodation in a safe and satisfactory condition as agreed in the contract ... so is about to be evicted .. even though this is illegal because hoarding is a mental disorder, so falls within the Equality Act etc.
Once the person then loses their home they are unlikely to be offered another local authority tenancy .. so private rental is only route; and whilst bond schemes are often available - often the homeless person will not have a guarantor to secure it at the final stage ... so is homeless.
And in most places I work, the homeless person needs to register at a police station before being able to secure emergency shelter in places such hostels or churches etc ... and for whatever reasons .. a lot of homeless people are very reluctant to register with police!
With the snow forecast this evening we had an increase in requests from the police for MHA assessments on homeless people presenting themselves with suicidal ideation ...
I saw a documentary last year showing that government spending on homelessness had halved over a period of years and during the same period homelessness had doubled!!
As the OP noticed, I regularly visit Cardiff and am amazed by the amount of people sleeping rough there, I do not know what the solution is, because as mentioned previously, there are so many different factors involved.
We donate to Crisis to help in some way and also buy warm food and or drinks for some when we are out. I feel for these poor buggers whatever their situation is, especially the youngsters who are similar age to my kids.
Years, well decades, ago I lived with my partner in a multi. On the floor above was a couple of junkies and I regularly saw him out begging. So begging and living in a house aren't mutually exclusive. They fought a lot and we could hear them screaming at each other. One night the noise woke my step-daughter and scared her. So I went upstairs to "sort them out". The door was open, so I stormed in, straight to the living room where I found Nothing. No chairs, no carpets, no pictures on the walls. Nothing. Just a bare mattress in one corner. The bloke was nearly in tears because she'd locked herself out on the balcony because he'd sold the telly and he was begging her to come back in. He was so out of it he wasn't even aware of me. I though **** it, I can't make these people's lives any worse than they already are and left. Still, they had a home and I'm sure if I had a fictional copper friend he'd be telling me that there was an Aga in the kitchen, a gold-plated toilet and a 4 poster in the bedroom
Case in point today. Called to do some work in an Ex-offenders hostel. The word hostel seems to leave a feeling of a grim place to live. This one isnt. Its a Victorian detached house with room for 7 men (men only). They get their own room, have to share bathrooms and kitchens. The place is better than some B&B's I've been in (one in Ebbw Vale last September was worse than this hostel).
Anyway, this guy seemed to be getting back on his feet, he had a TV, CD player, his room was tidy, he was a little bit scruffy, but not unkempt. (probably like me!)
On the way out the Warden shouted up to him 'make sure you pay your rent'.
Then said he's going to be evicted if he misses his rent again.
He said the rents used to be paid direct to the Landlord, now it goes to the Tenant, who should then pay the LL. But, many of the receivers of the housing benefit then go and spend it on something else, thinking they can get away without paying rent for a few weeks.
This undoubtedly leads to more homelessness.
I'm not sure the government have this wrong, it's clearly been put in to make people more aware of their debts etc, and make them aware they have to pay things to live, rather than relying on the state to do everything for them, but, if they have a drink/drug problem, it isnt helping them much at all.
Lewis75 your first post on this thread is shameful, the last person to ask for a true understanding of homelessness is a *ucking police officer. Try asking someone who has been through it and what caused it for the real picture.
Actually, I'm not surprised at this thread. It represents the brutality and total lack of compassion that our society currently strives for. I worked for 15 years in a charity that tackles homelessness and the harsh views presented here are the kind of thing we fought against every single day. You're all one pay check or a divorce away from life on the streets. Your judgement will be reflected on you.