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You could try the cost angle. It's over 10 years since I worked in the field but back then it was about £5-£10 for a PCR test for a single virus. A test to identify you as an individual (paternity test) was £200-£250 and a health screen looking for disease markers was £1000s (and pretty new cutting edge). If you google for paternity test price and a full DNA health screen from 23andme or similar you should be able to find up to date costs.
Yeah paddlers costing is probably more accurate based on scale they must be doing, ignore my £50! £5 is more likely
23&me are about £150 for health screen, this isn't a full genome sequence, just a selection of specific regions scattered throughout your genome that have a known risk %age for diseases associated with them.
If you want an example of what big brother Genomics might look like go to Iceland (the country not the shop)
They've sequenced 2/3rds of their population and there's been no health insurance catastrophe, just lots of rare diseases uncovered & explained
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCODE_genetics
The problem isn’t the specific mechanics of the PCR test, @5plusn8. If you stick a swab into someone’s throat, it will have their DNA on it. The fact that the test isn’t interested in that, and discards it, is immaterial. If you believe that someone has nefarious intent, then you’ll also believe that they will take that DNA.
It's why I've been avoiding hairdressers all these years. They can't harvest my valuable DNA from hair samples if I don't go. HA! (The male pattern baldness is unrelated).
Actually, I am quite happy with society dictating that nutjobs get comeuppance for their views when the views clearly get in the way of everyone else's safety, and suggest that the nutjob a) spends too much time on Facebook and b) is incapable of making good decisions. I'm just sorry it's happening to OP's family.
II expect he’s giving his employers all the excuse they’ve been waiting for to get rid of him – I’d imagine this isn’t his first and only foible.
You know all those tales of big multinationals making it a dismissible offence to not hold the handrail when you go up stairs?
Never seems to happen to the productive and useful employees does it.
Never seems to happen to the productive and useful employees does it.
I have to say I have never heard of it happening anyway...
I use this website for H&S issues like this at work.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2014/case271-visitor-handrail-mobile-phone-stairs.htm
Really informative thread! Some arguments @5plus8 may be able to use:
- if the company wanted your DNA they don't need a C19 sample to get it. Just looking around his workplace etc - he can search for what forensics need to get DNA from.
- as above, the C19 PCR isn't analysing his DNA (too expensive) and it's not even analysing the viral RNA - it's just looking for a few distinguishing marks.
- even if the company did want his DNA to analyse, the worst they could do with it is sack him, and they're going to do that if he doesn't take the test.
Has he picked up on this particular conspiracy theory?
I always find these threads a little disheartening. It's like people like to talk about talking about mental health in one breath, and in the next are quick to be dismissive of someone as a nutter that can't be reasoned with having read a paragraph or two of text about them. If it were me I'd like to think I'd be given more of a chance.
II expect he’s giving his employers all the excuse they’ve been waiting for to get rid of him – I’d imagine this isn’t his first and only foible.
You imagine!?!? What relevance has your imagining got here? Maybe don't imagine, it's a slippery slope 😉
Tell him you heard that the Russians started the DNA sequencing rumour to discourage people from taking the tests in order to attempt to destabilise the West by weakening its population, just like they did with Brexit. He'll be at the front of the queue tomorrow.
A private company collecting that data would need to get permission from you to store it under the data protection act.
If found in violation it would cost a fortune.
If found in violation to that scale it would almost certainly involve the controlling mind going to jail.
If it were me I’d like to think I’d be given more of a chance
Agreed. I wouldn't expect it to be easy but I'm surprised at the number of people saying it's impossible.
Has he never had a blood test done? For anything, at any point in his life? If he has, then he has nothing to lose. If the dark powers wanted to know about his DNA they would already have it via that means.
What about standard, childhood immunisations? Plenty of opportunities to harvest DNA samples throughout the average person's life.
If he's not had the secret police knocking on his door so far, why would he think that would change going forward?
I saw a documentary about that a while back. Some red-headed woman had her DNA sampled during vaccinations, she worked as a Special Agent at the FBI too. Her partner had some stupid name, Wolf or something, and he was always papping on about aliens and conspiracy theories and stuff. And bees, somewhat randomly. I think he was a sandwich short of a picnic, tell you the truth.
He's going to be shocked when he finds out about the Lateral Flow tests planting Lizard Eggs in his brain...
It is a known fact that if you sign up to a dna ancestry search, your dna is requested by the police, and there are recorded incidents of people being arrested for crimes in the past after signing up to such tests.
Also on the note of insurance, i would find it highly likely that insurance wouldn't want as much info on people as they can lay their grubby little hands on, remember that information is a comodity
Ok seeds planted, just got off a zoom call with him where we agreed to do a research exercise together. Kind of you show me yours I'll show you mine.
I gave him my keywords for him to search, and copied the zipper machine explanation to him.
And yes posters are correct he is driven by the covid dna retention law thing. Which I debunked for him ages ago, but he has given me some things to search too.
My keywords to search on:
Elle McPherson (no kidding)
The anal swab thing came up...
Vaccine induced stroke
VARS (its actually VAERS but I didn't have he heart to tell him)
He attempted to mention chips, bill gates, nanobots etc, we both agreed this was too far fetched.
Covid shutdowns to save the enviornment (if this were true I'd be happy about it)
Thats it for now, I will update.
I know very few people who've actually had a Covid test. So if it's an attempt to grab everyone's DNA it's failing massively.
On the other hand, most people I know have had a blood test at some point.
Makes yer think! 🙂
Progress.
Mucho thanks to all those who answered my question, I appreciate your efforts to educate me and another random stranger.
He accepts my point that all his keywords were antivax with nothing about DNA retention from CV19 tests other than the afore mentioned myth, which he also accepts is not true. Score 1 to logic and reason.
I have however committed to a keyboard battle with him over vaccines, but that's reserved for later. Score 1 to the bad guys, but chance for review. I can feel myself getting more ignorant.
He is finding the PCR keyword search believable. But needs more time. Another score, his wife is over the moon.
Test is booked for 0920 tomorrow. Another call with him tonight
I think I got the most success by getting him to face reality earlier:
Do you really think there are loads of dodgy people working in the lab breaking all the data protection rules?
Are you really gonna chuck your very good job away over this when if your theory is correct, then they have your data anyway? If not then they'll get it from your dustbin tonight.
These things made him go quiet.
Also on the note of insurance, i would find it highly likely that insurance wouldn’t want as much info on people as they can lay their grubby little hands on, remember that information is a comodity
At the moment at least it is illegal for life insurance companies in the UK to request or otherwise use DNA testing for premium rating purposes. Yes they'd like to but they can't.
Can we have some sources (like real actual credible sources and not some link to an article by The Mysterious Truther about someone's cousin's ex they found on Facebook) to anyone being arrested in the UK after signing up to a DNA ancestry type thing as well please.
Can we have some sources (like real actual credible sources and not some link to an article by The Mysterious Truther about someone’s cousin’s ex they found on Facebook) to anyone being arrested in the UK after signing up to a DNA ancestry type thing as well please.
Waits whilst everyone posts all the well known US cases...
The government already has his DNA thanks to cashless society, bank cards contain DNA reading chips which they then send whenever you make a purchase, smartphones with the fingerprint tech and inbuilt cameras to record your face all uploaded with contactless payments. This is why they faked a pandemic to get more people to use cashless. Too late for him to worry he best keep his job now they have that much information and he may unemployed.
Buy a large fish, walk up to him and slap him round the face a few times. If that doesn't work, god knows.
Waits whilst everyone posts all the well known US cases…
Exactly what I was expecting too 😀 . Even then I think people will struggle to come up with any unless the perp was already a suspect...
Interesting list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suspected_perpetrators_of_crimes_identified_with_GEDmatch
Ok the pigeon is in the pot, repeat the pigeon is in the pot.
His wife called, he is on his way to get tested.
We had deep chats last night and I can't claim all the credit as I think he long realised he was being daft and needed a way out. So I just acted as midwife to his apology/reversal which was in no way coming out on its own.
Interestingly I think this was all caused by the fact that he doesn't like his job, which by all accounts is a bit sucky.
The keyword search helped him to find a way to say that actually he wants to use his brain at work, and is fed up with being a donkey. So he is quite fired up about learning more about biology etc and is looking at courses with an idea to become a lab tech.
Once again thanks to all those who put the effort in to explain/help. I had no idea where to start and just a small nudge at the science was what it needed. (TINAS, GRUM, martinhutch, grahamt1980, LS, PhilO, and anyone else I missed) What has happened here is that you have poured oil on troubled waters, all is calm with the relations.
So he is quite fired up about learning more about biology etc and is looking at courses with an idea to become a lab tech.
Probably best to keep quiet about 5G and Bill Gates in the interview for that one. 🙂
Well done, must admit I tend to see anyone willing to say some of this conspiracy shit out loud as a bit of a lost cause, so it's nice to be proved wrong. Sending the terrier of truth to flush him out of the rabbithole!
I think it was a kind of cry for help. as many noted, maybe he didn't want to go back to his job, which was 100% true and needed a forward path to make him see sense.
Maybe he's done something very bad at some point and is worried that DNA would link him to a crime...
It's going to be disappointing when he finds the secret police are waiting for him at the test centre. 🤣
I think there are possibly quite a lot of people who have gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole, realised that their concerns have no basis, and just need a helping hand to find a way of putting it behind them without "losing face" as it were. The pandemic and lockdown have all affected us in different ways. If you are prone to anxiety, or it's covering for other worries, it could pin itself on any particular weird aspect. Mine does.
Some have gone down the hole and just can't stop digging though. I suggest we just fill the hole in on top of them.
Nice one, glad I was proved wrong.
nickc, it isn't the first time I have done this fools errand, but it is the first time someone has moved from their position. So I can understand why you would expect it to go nowhere.
I can't help thinking the pressure of losing his job helped him to change his mind. A normal discussion like this is just pub/internet warrior conversations where neither side has anything to lose, so keeping a conspiracy position is harmless to them.
It all goes tits up when they believe it so much they act on it, see the recent capitiol invasion for the results of that. And countless mass shootings in the US.
Excellent news!
That's a solid win! There are times when this place really does warm my heart and make me realise that there are helpful, positive people out there.
(TINAS, GRUM, martinhutch, grahamt1980, LS, PhilO, and anyone else I missed)
I forgot kimbers and wwpaddler, great help guys.
He's waiting at home for his test results, secretly hoping it is positive..
Can we have some sources (like real actual credible sources and not some link to an article by The Mysterious Truther about someone’s cousin’s ex they found on Facebook) to anyone being arrested in the UK after signing up to a DNA ancestry type thing as well please.
I think because we have a national police DNA database that records the DNA of arrested people, there is less need for this in the UK. That and GDPR issues.
This link provides a discussion of the issues, with the conclusions that
Familial searching in the UK has been used since 2003 in serious crimes where there is a DNA STR profile attributable to an offender, but the offender’s DNA profile is not in the National DNA Database (NDNAD). The technique ranks the genetic likelihood of a familial relationship between the crime scene STR profile and individuals on the NDNAD.
WHen looking at commercial DNA sites such as ancestry.com etc:
Genetic genealogy should only be used as a policing tool if it can be shown to be based on clear evidence, verified by an independent body, and that the established methods already in use for these law enforcement purposes are no longer adequate or effective. Otherwise, the use of any such novel processes would not meet the tests of necessity and proportionality. This would make the legality of using such novel processes highly suspect.
The legality of using informed consent as the sole appropriate legal basis to obtain the above highly sensitive data is doubtful, in line with the Data Protection Act 2018 (Part 3), the EU Law Enforcement Directive, and well-established Article 8 ECHR case law.
If it could be shown that the use of genetic genealogy was clearly needed in light of evidence that current processes were no longer adequate, a binding legal framework would have to be enacted that explicitly permits the collection and use of such genetic data, accompanied by relevant legal safeguards.
Just explain to him that under the capitalist system it's desirable to have a certain amount of unemployed people. And you are fine that he's selflessly choosing to be one of them.
Give him a wee pat on the back for doing his civic duty. 😆
They’re cheap and quick (the result comes up in about a minute but you’re supposed to wait 30minutes to be sure). I take one every week plus every time I attend certain sites.
stop reading them at 1 minute - start reading them at 30. A positive test will not appear until very close to 30 minutes unless you have a scary amount of virus in your nose. This type of error is why they are only designed for use by professionals and DHSC have skated a very dodgy line giving them out to almost anyone. (Set a timer on your phone for 30 mins - if you come back to it an hour later a negative test can look like a weak positive).
*applause*
On the vaccines thing:
Yes, there is limited evidence that in rare cases vaccines can be harmful. This is what the anti-vax brigade seize with both hands going "see? SEE?!" But there are two things they conveniently overlook:
1) Even given that there is a risk, the benefits far outweigh it and the risk of consequences from not having it are far greater. How many polio cases have you heard of recently?
2) Everything carries a risk. Go read the leaflet listing possible side-effects inside a box of paracetamol, it's terrifying. People have died from anaphylactic shock after eating a peanut (where are all the anti-legumers?). I have a friend who is violently allergic to zinc. Shit happens, someone can have a bad reaction to anything. But that doesn't make these things inherently bad.
Oh I am big into debunking antivaxx, I have reams of stuff on this.
What I did not know is the Andrew wakefield is now shagging Elle McPherson.
eg VAERS, the problem with it is that the antivaxx crowd do not understand causality and Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Has he never had a blood test done? For anything, at any point in his life? If he has, then he has nothing to lose. If the dark powers wanted to know about his DNA....
... they can get it from the sewer as it leaves his house
I take one every week plus every time I attend certain sites.
And here's the biggest debunk the OP needs. If the point of C19 testing is harvest everyone's DNA (even though there's plenty of ways to do that without you even knowing) why go the trouble of doing it more than once for anyone? And why use a method that's not even accessible to most - that sounds like a very wasteful, uneven and unreliable way of gathering all that precious precious DNA data. I've had at least two tests a week since September because I work in the movies and the financiers are both massively risk averse and also cash rich. My sister in law is one of the Covid volunteers who retuned as a front line worker in the NHS - never had a test. Most of the people I know have never had one and many of them probably never will. If the dark powers want to harvest DNA this way then what they'll mostly get a very high proportion DNA of namby pamby ****ers who work in 'media' like me and TINAS (or as we'll soon be known 'The Master Race') and not much from anyone else.