Forum menu
http://thecorner.eu/news-europe/will-macron-sell-the-jewels-in-frances-crown-like-engie-edf/65197/
"EDF: If it hadn’t been for the support from the government, it would have been impossible for the French utility to find the necessary funding to continue with its business. Its pensions plans, combined with the costs of dismantling its nuclear plants, would have been insurmountable burdens with its current cash flow structure. The government’s 84% stake guarantees its future and hides its disastrous finances. The progressive disposal of the stake which can be sold is the only viable way out."
going to be a tad more expense than first thought [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40479053 ]quelle surprise[/url]
French energy supplier EDF has estimated that the cost of completing the new Hinkley Point nuclear plant will be nearly [s]10%[/s] 25% more than expected.
FIFY 😉
And two years late already!
I thought that this was the case, due to the Contract for Difference method of payment.
A government spokeswoman said "the cost of construction, including any overruns, sits with the contractor".
But, earlier in the piece,
The extra costs partly result from adapting the project's design to meet the demands of UK regulators, the company said.
Makes me wonder if contract clauses mean that specification upgrades and regulatory demands mean that UK consumers will end up funding all the cost and time over run in the end. 👿
When was the last time a major UK project ran on time and on budget.
Sell you one thing, expect another. Its how business works 😉
New forth crossing was not far off IIRC Waverly line?
Olympic stadiums and associated infrastructure.When was the last time a major UK project ran on time and on budget.
Crossrail
Are the 2 that spring to mind without much thought.
tjagain - MemberNew forth crossing was not far off IIRC
probably because even the contractor was embarassed to take any more than the £1.35bn they'd already charged us!
New forth crossing was not far off IIRC Waverly line?
Both late and Waverley years later and more expensive than originally announced
Crossrail seems to be (83% complete)When was the last time a major UK project ran on time and on budget.
[url= https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/feature/crossrail-time-and-budget-how-get-major-infrastructure-project-right ]link[/url]
interesting reading there roger mellis
why arent we following a similar model for Hinkley then?
if im right though Crossrail was budgeted at 10bn with a 5bn contingency, which they used all of
Hinkley budgeted at 18bn, now 19.5bn
Plus Waverley line is a piece of crap served by crap trains. Sorry, that should read badly designed and under specced.
Hinkley's delayed because of the wait to commit to funding it, as far as I'm aware there is no other reason. Once it starts getting built its a case of hoping one of the others is progressing faster than it is so it can stay on schedule.
It should also be noted that unlike Crossrail, Waverley, the Olympics or anything else mentioned this isn't a public enterprise project.
The reason everything goes over budget and over time is that if people quote real times and budgets they don't get the contract. Or in the case of Hinkley, if the government and contractor were honest about the cost and timescales, it'd never have been started. Easier to ask forgiveness than permission, especially with Too Big To Fail
squirrelking - Hinkley is a government project - its just the Government is French!
Owned perhaps but not managed, there is quite a distinction.
interesting reading
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2989112/nuclear_powers_annus_horribilis.html
It could be nuclear fuel that becomes a problem.
Seemingly the whole Euratom thing is due a strategic U-turn as the idiots in charge have finally let the briefing sink in.
Bigjim - yes interesting, not least because it contains a lot of ommissions. No the Chinese reactor doesnt have its GDA yet but it only started the process a few months ago! Sizewell C is recruiting and a Bradwell B team is being formed. Not sure whats happening at Wylfa or Moorside but would be surprised if nobody looks to invest as GDAs are done and both reactor types are much more viable than EPR right now.
Does this mean we are not going to let the Frenchies wasted their money funding our project?
Damn....
THM - quite. Wholesale prices are not good at the moment, the fact is ANY new power will need tarriff guarantees. And more importantly, we need capacity of any type or we are really going to be boned in the next few years.
If you want to blame anyone blame the successive governments that dismantled our state owned nuclear and power inustries and left it to "market forces" to lead us to where we are today.
Not interested in the blame game - just wanted to amuse myself watching the Frenchies subsidise us here.
Wasn't addressing you as such, just the people that are getting salty about the feed in tarriffs
Not interested in the blame game - just wanted to amuse myself watching the Frenchies subsidise us here.
we'll be paying for it one way or another, BIGLY
http://renews.biz/108425/r-uk-lauds-astounding-cfd2-result/
Offshore wind now coming in not far off half the price of Hinkley
While on the flip side the tories let another world leading UK technology and project slip away
https://www.ft.com/content/24321f5a-9561-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b
Hinkley is now even more obviously a white elephant. the most expensive electricity you can get and not going to be online for 20 years if ever. spectacularly useless.
So, hate to be the bearer of bad news for the doom merchants (myself included) but this little nugget passed us all by 6 weeks ago:
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Chinas-Taishan-1-reactor-connected-to-grid-29061801.html
It works.
Hinkley is still on schedule for unit 1 completion in 2025 and unit 2 in 2027 albeit 5 months behind. Sizewell C is hoped to be underway in the next few years to take advantage of cascading resources from one project to the other as they become available. Meanwhile neither Horizon nor NuGen have broken ground on Wylfa or Moorside.
Did the government advisors not recently say that nukes are white elephant and no more should be built?
Did the government advisors not recently say that nukes are white elephant and no more should be built?
Did they? Was it part of a comprehensive energy review, if not it's a fairly meaningless statement.
Any energy policy needs to come up with concrete proposals on how it's going to deliver this amount as a minimum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption
Then how it will deliver more with technology we can identify and set to building today, with a timeline for completion and lifespan. the cost of energy is one factor but if we assume it's going up we need to know what each component of the mix will be.
It amuses me that with 9 years still to go its 7 months behind schedule. By bet is we never see any electricity from these white elephants.
Shame it's in the times and I can't read the rest of it, would be good to see what they budget that to cost and what it could deliver along with storage and peak/baseload. Then how long it would take to get to the position where it was enough.
Unless you don't actually turn on the power station you will see electricity from them, running practically silently and out of view for years doing a very solid job just as they have been since they came online.
I think it was actually quite a weak piece of advice that only really looked at headline costs without considering those other somewhat important factors.
I don't think these plants will ever be completed. Leaving euratom throws a big spanner in the works and I will bet that the delays keep on appearing with completion dates being continually put back.
What we need IMHO is a lot more renewables including tidal flow and new gas plants ready to go on line in that pesky winter high pressure event! Keep them in reserve for when the renewables cannot cover.
Since this debate started on here scotland has massivly increased its renewables and renewable generation is providing much more of our power than it did those few years ago. IIRC now providing more than hinckly can and at much lower cost.
Nuclear has its place in the energy portfolio.. continuous levels of output with minimal emissions. Can be used as part of an overall energy plan etc.
There are obvious issues with waste but not insurmountable. Plus if you ever want to make some weapons.....
not burning coal, oil or waste would be a good start. Renewable should form a large chunk of the future. as power plants last decades the cycle for bidding, construction and use are 30-40 years tends to make people play safe or at least not try “new” tech so they can guarantee return on investment
What we need IMHO is a lot more
Open, transparent costings and long term commitments with a planning system to cope. We need state lead decisions with the right incentives and assurances to get things built. We need a mix and a lot of evidence based decision making here.
My goodness - is this an outbreak of agreement and sensible point making?
I find it hard to disagree with that Mike.
hinckly
Aaaargh, Hinckley is in Leistershire whilst Hinkley, which we are talking about, is in Somerset!
That aside, Taishan has demonstrably proven that they will generate. Euratom has very little to do with this project since it is entirely commercially driven, it's the decommissioning and developmentside of things that will lose out in that respect. And read what I said again, it's [b]five[/b] months behind schedule, not seven. With seven years to go (unit 1 online in 2025 remember) they are confident they can claw that back. Whether or not they do is by the by anyway, five months is hardly show stopping stuff.
And I'd wager nuclear will play a serious part in that. The UK has a very dense population compared to a lot of places we don't have all the space for big expansive schemes but we do have locations for some real big generators.
Open, transparent costings and long term commitments with a planning system to cope.
a lot of evidence based decision making here.
Can we we extend this to everything else?😀
I'll wager nuclear does not play a significant part if there is actually objective decision making and transparant costings. and I'd also wager that delays will increase not decrease.
Taishan has proven the design CAN work not that Hinkly will ever produce any electricity.
What's the base load in your plan tj?
I’ll wager nuclear does not play a significant part if there is actually objective decision making and transparant costings.
Depends what you want your costs to tell you. Nuclear is a long term play, unlike gas turbines which you can throw up in short order (and deplete your national reserves just as quickly). Nuclear should be compared to hydro as opposed to any other source, the payback is on a similar timescale.
Objectively speaking, nuclear has a future in the energy mix.
What we need IMHO is a lot more renewables including tidal flow
Unfortunately the governments on this side of the world have really lost interest in supporting developing tidal technology and more companies sliding into oblivion. Just crazy with all that completely predictable massive amount of energy around our coastline.
Bigjim +1
Bigjim plus 2