My current thoughts on your trip are Ryvoan, Fords of A’an, Laiogh, Hutchison should be fine, and Larig Ghru to retur
This looks like a great route, thanks!
That’s the route I had in mind, but articulated better than I could manage. Enjoy the trip!
Hazards may not be apparent even to experienced moutaineers, and aren't exclusively in the highest mountain areas. A good appreciation of avalanche hazard goes with the other technical experience mentioned:
Chalemain gap avalanche
I would suggest that if the OP is considering a route that may possibly require ice axe and crampons, he shouldn't be going, full stop. A multi-day solo trek through the Cairngorms is no place to teach yourself the basics.
Either stay well clear of possible problems with a low level trek (depending on the ambient conditions of course) or go somewhere suitable and safe to play around a bit. Ben Lui NE side is the sort of thing I recall learning on as a child, a corrie that holds snow with a gentle run-out. Cairngorms are characteristically convex, often steepening as you leave the summit plateau, meaning an easy stroll can turn into an icy slide very quickly.
One of my coldest bike rides was coming down from Ben Macdui the last weekend of August in 2020. We got to the Hutchison hut and it was full of wet and cold people. My friend and I have both done our MBLs so fairly experienced which is as much about knowing when to call it a day. We got close to the summit but as it had been raining steadily for a couple of hours we decided we didn't need to get to the summit and starting heading down. On the way down I realised we weren't on the right path so stopped and corrected our mistake. It was misty and easy to do but turning back earlier probably helped recognise our error. The next day we read that an exhausted walker possibly with hypothermia, I forget the details, had been rescued from a neighbouring hill having been on BM about the same time as us. You're only a couple of small mistakes away from some bigger ones.
If you’re in snowwhoes and it really is avalanche prone what exactly is the rope going to do ?
Even after the explanation I'm still not sure I understand that one!
These type of threads are hilarious and predictable, everyone waving their willies about talking about how extreme their experience was.
To the OP, pick a good day, choose a straightforward route*, go for a look, and if it's as expected you'll be fine. If the weather is poor or you don't feel happy or the underfoot conditions are not suitable then turn back early and go for the plan B you already had in mind like say Meall a' Bhuachaille.
*in good conditions Ben Macdui via the path under the Northern Corries is very straightforward.
Yeah, it would be a shame to miss a good snow day on Macdui, hence my suggestion of trying a few lower level options and giving some time for mucking about with an axe in benign conditions. Unless there's a plentiful fresh fall of snow, the way to Macdui is usually well marked by the ski tracks.
These last two comments align with how we went about it. Both my mate and I are very used to being outdoors, having worked in arboriculture/horticulture our whole lives, so we understand weather. We love an adventure so just headed up and learnt on the job. Our first day we had 70mph gusts making walking extremely hard, but we moved slowly and carefully, assessing each risk as we came across it. We stopped regularly to get our bearings, using a Harvey map and compass plus a phone and GPS to help.
Had a wonderful time and it felt so good to do something with consequences. Makes you feel alive.
To learn self arrest, we found a short steep slope and spent a joyous hour throwing ourselves down it. That gave us a ton of confidence.
The Way from Northern Corries to Ben Macdui was marked by cairns every 50m or so. Wouldn't have attempted it in heavy snowfall but it was just icy freeze/thaw albeit with around 200m visibility, so we took our chances and had a lovely day.
Our favourite moment was was on that first day when we were on the shallow icy slopes of Coire Raibert and my mate got bodily picked up by a gust. I grabbed his rucksack straps and we clung onto an outcrop of rocks whilst a sea of ice crystals flowed over us. Magic!
These type of threads are hilarious and predictable, everyone waving their willies about talking about how extreme their experience was.
Or maybe they are just pointing out how extreme the conditions can be in the Highlands in the winter. Another solo hiker found dead just now in the news.
< stealth edit>
Yeah Spin, what have you ever done on ice ?
😉
@shermer75 it's a pity you're not here today. Windspeed at the summit of Cairngorm is 1mph and there's not a cloud in the sky.
All I was trying to say is that even in late summer it can be pretty cold and miserable up that high but as long as you are sensible etc.
These type of threads are hilarious and predictable, everyone waving their willies about talking about how extreme their experience was.
A mate of mine was part responsible for this happening. He’s very experienced, so was the lad that was injured. Believe the air crew were quite experienced too…
TBF I think most of us are on the same page here. It's just tricky to know what level of experience the op is coming from.
The cairngorms can be completely deadly.
But
With the right approach you can mitigate those risks to a degree, and it's generally worth going out.
I’m really not proud of what happened to me and my mates in the Cairngorms. I mean embarrassed enough not to want to do the whole story.
But I’ll share one more detail as I think it’s a useful lesson.
We walked across the plateau and camped. Weather broke and we realised that hiking back across the plateau wasn’t an option. Only at that point did we start looking at the valley touted for getting out and realised just how in the middle of know where we were
So to the OP. Take it easy. Check the weather. Think through bail out options. Enjoy your time in the hills
I think it is absolutely reprehensible that some of you are encouraging the OP to commit suicide. This thread is an example of all that is wrong with the internet.
Wow, Waderider, that’s quite extreme (unless I’m missing the sarcasm). I think we’re all suggesting that the OP take care but get out and enjoy themselves. Yeah, there’s an element of risk with any activity like this, but largely you can control the risks.
As for ‘willy-waving’, Spin, I thought it was mostly just good natured sharing of experiences (good and bad) and the odd cautionary tale.
Sad news for his loved ones.
As someone who goes into the mountains often and wildcamps, how can you avoid dying, basically? I wouldn't do stuff that required a icepick because I've no idea how to use one and cannot read snow/ice conditions, but just hiking and wildcamping never seemed parituclarly dangerous. I often camp in extremely cold conditions but always have the right gear.
I think if you dress right, work within your experience and don't take silly chances then that's all we can do to mitigate disaster. But it's the tiny chance of trouble that makes these trips exciting and worth doing. It's good for the soul.
I wouldn’t do stuff that required a icepick because I’ve no idea how to use one and cannot read snow/ice conditions, but just hiking and wildcamping never seemed parituclarly dangerous
Got to say I'm surprised my people focusing on the ice/slip/fall side of things. I have no evidence to back it up, but strongly expect that navigation/ benightment snafus would be more of a risk this year...
( though of course many a nav snafu turns into a fall snafu)
strongly expect that navigation/ benightment snafus would be more of a risk this year…
Quite a lot of winter climbers getting banjoed this year due to loose rock and thin ice. Not surprising given the winter we've had.
As an aside, it's basically summer in the NW today. Better than summer in fact because there are no midges. I should have been taking photos for the winter climbing guidebook but instead I'm soloing wee rock routes at Inveralligin in a t-shirt. It's glorious but it's not right!
I think the reason for focussing on slips and falls is that the OP appears to have little to no winter mountaineering experience and was specifically asking about that. If they have previously gone camping (“wild camping”) in winter and are staying on the valley floors then there’s nothing in particular to talk about. It might still be hostile but they wouldn’t fall down a cliff.
It isn’t suicidal to go up high but I would certainly call it foolhardy in their situation.
Got to say I’m surprised my people focusing on the ice/slip/fall side of things.
Mate of mine died this time last year rock climbing in The Lake District as it was nice and warm and the winter routes weren't in. Slipped and went down 100m to his death. Icy slips are possibly the worst hazard in 'bone-y' conditions.
But, but, but the OP specifically asked about hiking in the Cairngorms, not rock climbing, or indeed ice climbing.
This very subject was on Countryfile tonight, vaguely interesting for a change.
Apparently 20 people have died so far this year in the Cairngorms
But, but, but the OP specifically asked about hiking in the Cairngorms, not rock climbing, or indeed ice climbing.
I don't want to cause offence to @kraftyslices (I assume the sad incident is the one I know about) but that was a death in a relatively benign area caused by a fall. In fact I was there today, but conditions have completely cleared. I was there a few weeks ago and my axe shaft was completely submerged in snow.
Standard advice from all agencies in winter is to carry an ice axe and crampons...and have the knowledge and experience to know how to use them. The OP doesn't have that.
The weather may be fine for the OP's trip, but it equally might not. March is usually a busy time for winter training due to expected conditions (although this year has been different). Personally I wouldn't advise someone to head out solo in winter conditions in the Gorms with no previous winter experience. Maybe I'm risk averse despite being out in it lots myself (having gained experience...time in experienced company, practice and winter skills courses).
Apparently 20 people have died so far this year in the Cairngorms
FWIW, that segment was filmed in 2018, and possibly towards the end of the year. There certainly hasn't been 20 fatalities in the area in the past 8 weeks.
scotroutes
Full Member
@shermer75 it’s a pity you’re not here today. Windspeed at the summit of Cairngorm is 1mph and there’s not a cloud in the sky
I heard it was amazing! I saw some photos on Twitter, so sunny!!
but largely you can control the risks
Yes, if you know what you're getting into and how to get back out of it. I mean you can control your risk of getting lost by using a compass and following bearings but you have to know how to do it before you set off, as just one example.
As someone who goes into the mountains often and wildcamps, how can you avoid dying, basically?
I'm planning to start low down, walk up using the main paths and stop and/or turn around if it starts to look hairy.
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. Somewhat confused why you prefixed it by quoting me.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for 1 second that anyone go out into the Scottish winter mountains without ice axe and crampons.
What I was saying is that IMHO navigation failures and people getting lost on the plateau are probably more danger to hikers than falls.
For example...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorm_Plateau_disaster
@thegeneralist I possibly speed read, but I think the risk of fall (as has happened recently) and a nav snafu are both for equal consideration (along with avalanche risk). It's all just plain vanilla risk assessment. Apologies if I mis-quoted you.
I know you didn't suggest anyone go out ill equipped, but I do genuinely believe in gaining experience before venturing out solo.
I'm very familiar with the Cairngorms tragedy. It occured in an area I frequent regularly. The Jocks Road tragedy too for different reasons.
I hope the OP has a great trip, and a safe one. I'm just concerned that he doesn't have the experience of the Cairngorm plateau in winter, nor using crampons and an axe should the conditions not be favourable (unlike today, yet they were near zero vis where I was last week).
Peace.
Yep
@futureboy77 yes it was pretty benign conditions and a hill that I've done many times.
Conditions on the valley floor do not always give a good indication of what's happening 1000m higher up, and conditions can change dramatically and quickly.
I'm all for people walking in the hills throughout the year. But knowing the risks helps us to make the right decisions at the right time.
Enjoy your trip @shermer75 !
kraftyslices
Full Member
@futureboy77 yes it was pretty benign conditions and a hill that I’ve done many times.Conditions on the valley floor do not always give a good indication of what’s happening 1000m higher up, and conditions can change dramatically and quickly.
I’m all for people walking in the hills throughout the year. But knowing the risks helps us to make the right decisions at the right time.
Enjoy your trip @shermer75 !
Sorry for the loss of your colleague. Agree with you. Walking past the flowers was quite jarring as I've seen the conditions change so much recently. Hope the funeral goes as best as it can.
Apparently 20 people have died so far this year in the Cairngorms
Source?
Matt - that seems to have been a misunderstanding based on an old interview from 2018 that was aired on Countryfile this evening.
Ah, OK. I did think that was a very high number, and when I hadn't seen so much press about it.
Anyway OP, enjoy your trip and do post photies...
4 people rescued in Cairngorms
To answer the OPs question. Personally (and I have a fair bit of experience), I wouldn't be on the plateau on my own in March. If you can find someone else to go with then yes, buy an ice axe and go up there if the visibility and wind are forecast to be fine. If not, stay lowish.
Personally (and I have a fair bit of experience), I wouldn’t be on the plateau on my own in March.
Personally, I would. But I am Summer ML holder and Winter ML trained, so also have a 'fair bit of experience'.
I wouldn’t be on the plateau on my own in March. If you can find someone else to go with then yes, buy an ice axe and go up there if the visibility and wind are forecast to be fine. If not, stay lowish.
As mentioned above the plateau can be very difficult in the clag. I've taught nav to students on it in white out conditions and they were absolutely shitting themselves at the start! You can barely tell up from down and have to rely 100% on this tiny compass in your hand and pacing in your head. You can hear the sense of relief when a cairn suddenly appears in front of them out of nowhere. On a sunny day, it looks the most innocent place on the planet....
Even catches experienced people out, one week we were there a fellow instructor (MiC) had finished the climbs with his students, had topped out and were chatting away on the walk back to the Ski area, when they suddenly found themselves at the big rock in Sneachda. Could be worse, people often end up at Loch Avon.
Personally (and I have a fair bit of experience), I wouldn’t be on the plateau on my own in March.
Not, in any way meant to be a dig, but I think that's quite extraordinary and extreme. You'd write off the whole of March (so, presumably November/December, January and February too)?
