I'm heading to the Cairngorms next weekend for a hike and wild camp. I don't have any crampons (just 'grampons' or mini spikes that strap onto light weight boots) or an ice axe. Do I need to stick to the lower altitudes? Is it foolish of me to buy an ice axe and head out on to the plateau? I've never been up there before, and I don't want to be a statistic, any wisdom and experience appreciated!
Ice axe is to rescue yourself if you slide, crampons are to help stop that happening in the first place. If you dont know how to use the ice axe to stop a slide it's not going to be much use, it's not a glorified walking pole.
Ice axe is to rescue yourself if you slide, crampons are to help stop that happening in the first place. If you dont know how to use the ice axe to stop a slide it’s not going to be much use, it’s not a glorified walking pole
Yep, it would be the first time for me, would I be ok in the Cairngorms next week? There's still a lot of snow up there
something topical on this here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-64743670/blockquote >
Yep, that's what I'm worried about! That prob answers my question to be fair
I should prob qualify that I'm not an attempt a scramble type, far more of a stick to the easy path kind of a guy. But I suppose there's always a chance that you might not get that kind of an option? Looking at the map there is def a loooooot of contours...
It's been raining & about 0 degrees in Aviemore this evening. It'll be colder & snowy higher up.
My mate is doing his winter ML in the Cairngorms in a couple of weeks. As part of it, they have to build & sleep in a snow hole.
Assuming you're not trying anything technical then a walk around and over (some of) the mountains will be fine. From what I can see, there's actually very little snow at the moment but you will likely come across patches of hard ice where it has thawed and re-frozen. You can't always avoid these so crampons make a lot of sense. Of course, it helps if you know how to properly use axe and crampons and have had some experience with them but that could actually become a good reason for the trip. Just stick to the well-known areas and spend some time practising while there's some snow to do it on.
There are, of course, plenty of lower glens for an overnighter. If you're heading from the Aviemore area I can certainly give you some options.
It's a different world on top of the Cairngorms, could be 7° in Aviemore but well below freezing 4000 ft up.If it's windy hang on to your hat. I think I'd avoid if low cloud unless your very confident with a map and compass
Mountain weather and avalanche forecasts are your first port of call.
Kit and experience next. How’s your nav - where are you planning to go?
first weekend in March does look quite settled weather at the mo, but looking a lot worse soon after
Thanks @Scotroutes- much appreciated, well experienced advice as always! Some options for the lower glens would be much appreciated, thanks! Only planning to head up to the higher altitudes if it looks safe tbh
Kit and experience next. How’s your nav – where are you planning to go?
Prob not much further than Ben Macdui tbh- if that!
Be sensible, don’t take on a route you can’t reverse or that’s over committing where you can turn back if you encounter problems and you should be ok. Use the SAIS and MWIS and any other sources of info to help plan. Do turn back if in doubt. I remember doing a walk in Glen Coe and we merrily romped up one side of mountain in the sun (south) with barely any snow or ice and the other side (north) was basically sheet ice. We’d not have got down that side without crampons. Those wee crampons are great but they aren’t so good on steeper ground, and I’d prefer to have an axe to hand on the hill. Just to add, an ice axe is for more than just arresting if you slide, first and foremost it’s a tool to keep you from sliding, whether that’s cutting steps or digging it in for stability. Arresting a slide is bloody hard if you’ve gained any speed at all. If I were you I’d get an axe and try it out (using it that is, not self-arresting!).
If conditions are good then the plateau would be great. If conditions are grim it’s a very harsh and dangerous place to be without the right skills - especially navigation.
Although if the goings easy, a bit further. I have 3 and a tiny bit days
There are tons of great routes through the glens and nipping into loch Avon is spectacular. Scotroutes will have better knowledge than me, but I’d suggest a good basic (and classic) loop to build from (depending on conditions) would be out to Derry lodge via lairig an Laoigh and then over to Corrour bothy and back via Lairig Ghru. You can add bits to it easily if your going well, and take in some tops if you want. You will of course the major bonus of winter/spring camping…no midges! I’m getting very jealous thinking about it.
Looking at the map there is def a loooooot of contours…
The problem is that once on the plateau, there aren't...
It's very easy to become disoriented in poor visibility as the plateau is large, flat and mainly featureless (until you happen on the aforementioned contours).
I never understood how people could (unintentionally) walk in circles until I was caught in a white-out on Cairngorm. People were arguing with the compass because they were so sure that they were walking in a straight line (they weren't).
There can be large patches of ice up there, too. I remember being puzzled at seeing a perfect reflection of somebody on the gound in front of me, and wondering why that would be - just before they started doing impressions of Bambi on ice.
My 2p: Be guided by conditions - settled, clear weather and while it might be (VERY) cold, it could be brilliant. Any sign of poor visibility or rain/snow: activate plan B.
One of the classic low level Cairngorm walk is Blair Atholl to Aviemore through Glen Tilt and the Larig Gru. Depending when you start there is a nice camp spot beside the bridge at the Falls of Tarf. 12 miles. Or another 4 gets you to the Red Bothy NO003870. Plenty options from there. Glen Feshie. Larig Gru. Bob Scotts.
If the weather is settled the Larig Gru will be fine but it is about 2700ft with a shape that funnels wind so even in March it could be tricky in some conditions. Beuatifil place to camp in calm cold clear conditions. I camped at the Pools of Dee late one October. Freezing night but with the height and cold dry air the stars were stunning.
This was exactly me and a mate two weeks ago. First time in the Cairngorms, stayed at Aviemore.
Wore microspikes on our shoes and they were fantastic. After our first day when we walked the two corries route (I believe its called) I.e. around the ridge of the cliffs, we went straight to a shop and bought axes! Plenty of icy snow on the southern slopes and it was wickedly windy.
Had a great time the next day practicing self arrest on a small but steep slope that we found down towards Loch Avon, which reinforced our confidence.
Final day we marched out to Ben Mcdue (sp?), which was in the clouds but marked with regularly cairns.
We really practiced our nav, using paper map and compass but backed up by os app on phone and a garmin etrex.
It was brilliant!
Just don't be tempted to rely on microspikes. You might be fine but are no substitute for crampons.
A colleague of mine set off with microspikes. No sign of snow from the car. It's his funeral on Monday.
Prob not much further than Ben Macdui tbh- if that!
As things are just now you should be able to get to Macdui without axe and crampons.
I'd also add to the warning about microspikes. They're fine for confidence on icy paths but no good for security on steep terrain.
I came as close blowing in the Cairngorms as I have any where
1. GPS navigation will have moved things on but the plateau can present real problems in snow and mist
2. It can get really cold. This wasn’t factor for us but has been an issue for some
I’m not saying don’t go. Just really think things through. The valleys are just amazing so you could have a great trip in those
A colleague of mine set off with microspikes. No sign of snow from the car. It’s his funeral on Monday
Well this is about a clear a warning as anyone needs! Sorry to hear about your colleague
irc
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One of the classic low level Cairngorm walk is Blair Atholl to Aviemore through Glen Tilt and the Larig Gru. Depending when you start there is a nice camp spot beside the bridge at the Falls of Tarf. 12 miles. Or another 4 gets you to the Red Bothy NO003870. Plenty options from there. Glen Feshie. Larig Gru. Bob Scotts.
If the weather is settled the Larig Gru will be fine but it is about 2700ft with a shape that funnels wind so even in March it could be tricky in some conditions. Beuatifil place to camp in calm cold clear conditions. I camped at the Pools of Dee late one October. Freezing night but with the height and cold dry air the stars were stunning
Some great tips here, thanks!
If you have 3 days and Macdui is a goal then I'd suggest a couple of lower-level or "orientation/training" days, perhaps taking an axe up to a suitable slope to play around with, before another day heading to Macdui itself. A high-level backpacking expedition also involves a much heavier pack, affecting balance, increasing the possibility of slippage and making any arrest far more problematic.
I can't actually see the mountains at the moment as they are shrouded in cloud but I'll try to give some updates on this thread before you set off.
Just to point out the obvious about ‘spring’ in the Cairngorms. This is the top of Ben Macdui in April:
Note the snow shoes and ropes. They were really needed - deep fresh snow. We were very careful but still ended up on a dodgy avalanche prone slope over the norther corries at one point.
I'm sure the main paths would be no worse than any other higher hills this time of year, the Cairngorms are a popular place especially from places like Braemar and Aviemore. Just be sensible. Check the hill weather before you venture out.
https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Cairngorm/forecasts/1234
If you've not already read it then I'd recommend this book, some good tales of walking in the Cairngorms.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bothy-Tales-Footsteps-Scottish-hills/dp/0995595828
I was once ski-touring on the Cairngorm summit plateau in near white-out, no horizon and high winds was completely disorienting I was skinning uphill on a bearing and within a few hundred metres I was 90 degrees off-course as I thought I was still going uphill, when in fact I was going downhill but the force of the wind made it feel uphill. I was able to retrace my tracks and skied down the head wall into Corrie na Ciste instead. Just a couple of hundred metres lower, it was sheltered, little cloud and quite pleasant.
2 winters ago, I was living underneath Ben Rinnes, not quite a Munro but I’d be up there at least once a week. It’s a popular local climb with a well-worn track but in winter it would get completely blown-in and the last few hundred metres was often hard neve, impossible without microspikes at least. I’d see people getting out their cars at the bottom in training shoes.
If you're in snowwhoes and it really is avalanche prone what exactly is the rope going to do ?
Obviouslyas the pictures above indicate it can be really grim, and that is quite a high possibility. It can also be fantastic. I would look at the weather forcast, and then pack, assuming it could be a bit worse amd then do what conditions deem appropriate, high or low level walks. I'd second buying an axe tho' and practice carrying and using it. Until you have one ou can't practice using one, and the vast majority of people learn to use one by doing.
Get off the Sleeper at Blair Atholl and follow Glen Tilt towards Braemar, then left towards Aviemore via either Glen Feshie or Lairig Ghru. You can always go higher if it looks doable plus there's the Corrour Bothy as a 'shelter'.
Get Sleeper back from Aviemore.
Thanks for all the tips! Lots of genuinely useful real world experience and info there, thanks! @scotroutes if you're able to give me an update on the conditions next week, that would be massively useful! Thanks!
@wbo we had used the rope to get onto the plateau via the fiacaill ridge, which was fairly safe. When we got to the top we kept it on for two reasons, 1) so I could use it as a visual aid for navigating (we both used a compass as it was proper whiteout and really hard to walk straight even using the compass, me at the back having the rope to sight along made it much more accurate to correct our direction) and 2) in case we got off course and my dad wandered over a cornice. The avalanche danger was when we were heading down and got onto the steepening slopes above Coire an Lochan - there the snow shoes were not helpful at all.
Do people still die in large numbers up in the Cairngorms or has global warming put an end to most of that ?
Do people still die in large numbers up in the Cairngorms or has global warming put an end to most of that ?
There’s someone still missing in Glencoe with his dog from last week - it’s been a pretty mild winter this year (stunning blue skies and no wind today) but that particular afternoon was horrible, gale force winds and sleet at sea-level. There’s also a guy missing in a kayak off Jura from yesterday, went out in a t-shirt, outdoor trousers 🥺
You can rent kit (including an ice axe I think) from Tiso in Aviemore.
If it is snowy definitely recommend crampons although the greatest 'risk' is probably weather, particularly low visibility on the tops. There are a fair few cliffs etc. and proper white out is really disorienting. I fell over stood still whilst attempting to ski up Brieriach once as the grey sky meeting the grey snow an only a couple of metres visibility made working which way was up hard to do. It was a clear bright day when we got back down to the Lairig Gru but still cloudy on top.
Basic 10 point crampons fit most boots. Often end up walking with crampons and ski poles only getting an axe out on steep ground. Do practice walking in them though. Very easy to catch a trouser hem.
Also whether going up high or down low make sure to remember your gaiters or you'll have permanently wet and cold feet!
March in the Cairngorms is magic but good days and quite often enforced cafe or low level pottering days due to weather. Have a great trip.
https://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Climbing-Running/Winter-Alpine-Expedition/Crampons/Grivel-Monte-Rosa-New-Classic
To put a bit of context as to how changeable it can be, there wasn't any snow on Friday and this is how it was last Saturday (taken from lower slopes of Derry Cairngorm). No summit photo as it was thick cloud with very little vis.
I wouldn't be heading anywhere without an axe and crampons. Even without snow, there is a lot of ice. My local hills are forecast -15C today with wind chill.
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Do people still die in large numbers up in the Cairngorms
Global warming won't stop the wind. One day I left the ski car park to walk round to Coire Lochan. Too windy to go on the tops. With the funnelling effect near the mouth of the corrie I got blown clean off my feet while crouched waiting for a gust to pass. Dropped 5 or 6 feet away. onto snow luckily. Hands and knees for a hundred yards. Once further in the corrie the wind dropped off.
The same day a female walker was killled. Walking up the ridge to the right of the Coire Cas. Blown off her feet. Slid down a slope and banged her head. Talking going in the helicopter. Dead shortly after arrival at Inverness.
Don't forget the Cairngorm summit weather station has the wind speed record for the UK. 173mph gust.
To add to earlier words about 'be prepared for anything' weatherwise, here are a couple of photos of the 'gorms in the past.
1st one https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6456876 is in early March in the Lairig Ghru - it was knee-deep and more at times.
2nd one https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6413726 is taken from pretty much on the top of Macdui one Easter weekend, and although the snow cover was extensive and obviously deep, it was still quite hard underfoot in places.
Have a great trip, I for one am extremely jealous.
stick to the easy path kind of a guy
Then definitely don't attempt going high up. If you've never done it or anything similar you don't know what to expect, so going alone is a recipe for disaster.
My local hills are forecast -15C today with wind chill.
I imagine to OP is plann8ng to go fully clothed...
The most challenging navigation I have ever faced was on the Cairngorm plateau in winter on ski. 3 meter visibility. There were 6 of us and we split into 3 teams of 2 to navigate independently, but stay together, conferring when required. It was HARD, and one of the group was a submarine navigator! We actually hit the summit of MacDhui spot on. We made the decision to turn back, and as we stood up, the cloud cleared to bluebird and we went on to complete the 4 tops of the Cairngorms in incredible conditions. That was in April BTW.
I never carry crampons when ski touring, but once had to cut steps with the ice axe climbing out of Loch A'an. That was scary as an un arrested fall would have been fatal. A slight gradient change and a slight change in snow surface texture and the skis were back on and everything was totally fine.
My current thoughts on your trip are Ryvoan, Fords of A'an, Laiogh, Hutchison should be fine, and Larig Ghru to return. MacDhui via Loch Etchachan and then back over the plateau might be OK but you have to be prepared to turn back before being committed.
I would have a look at the SAIS blogs for an idea of snow cover, and MWIS for weather. Stay safe, have fun, and let us k ow how you got on.
