Lexikay, you want to have a look at these as an alternative to joining and training in a gym...
British Military Fitness
http://www.britmilfit.com/
Forces fit
http://www.forcesfit.co.uk/
Kev
iDave - it's you that doesnt have the clue. Explain to me how what you are suggesting they do will give them the results they want. Go for it.
Tell you what - you tell me what results (e.g. titles at world level) you've had with cyclists you've trained, then I'll do the same. Should be quicker than me trying to re-educate you... and I have already stated what the benefits are to the suggestions I've made.
None at world level. Some at lower levels, but i'm not one to boast about these things. Now you tell me yours.
Then you tell me what the OP is looking to gain and what the best way forward is for them and why.
But resistance training is effective for fat loss, and enhanced upper body and core condition will improve performance on the bike. In addition, using the cardio equipment for intervals will improve ability on the bike more than steady state.Intervals and resistance work - which I suggest is done using dumbells/medicine balls and instability exercises (swiss balls/beams/balance boards), is in my mind the most effective use of time in the gym.
there you go... do you need any more explanation, ie regarding training muscles for enhanced neural drive rather than hypertrophy?
Aye, I read that the first time. You seem to have forgotten about what the OP wants to do, where they're coming from, base fitness and the field of exercise physiology though.
Also - which results have you had in training folk?
Can you explain the training muscles for neural drive rather than hypertrophy thing to me please. I'm interested to know how a lay person could do that effectively by themselves in a bog standard gym.
the OP wants to 'improve general fitness, strength to make climbs on the bike a bit easier, and maybe lose a little weight'
The things I've suggested are the most effective means of doing this.
As for forgetting about exercise physiology, it is a while since i lectured in it at degree level...
They're not the most effective ways of doing it though are they? Not when you take unsupervised training into account.
Couldn't care less what you have lectured in. Training for elite sports people and people off the street is totally different in the best approach to take. You should know that.
Training for elite sports people and people off the street is totally different in the best approach to take. You should know that.
Yeah, I do. I've trained lots of both elite and normal people, and not just cyclists. I've trained people who train PT's. Obviously some rogue ones slipped through the net. No point in arguing with you, what with you having certificates and that...
This guy must be motivational dynamite in the gym.
"You're a fat **** who'll never amount to much, now get on that exercise bike"
Zulu - If you are a personal trainer then this is still your business. iDave has retired from the game so to speak.
All you've advised is go to BodyAttack, right?
iDave and others have advised a far more complete work out routine. Encompassing the principles that are at the heart of BodyAttack but modified to provide an increased, more intense, focus on the cardio/strength/conditioning elements. How can this not be better than what you've advised?
Without a really concrete answer I'll suggest 'don't give up the day job'... oh. 😯
So why are you not aiming for increasing base fitness then? I'm interested to know.
Also want to know about the increased neural drive thing. Particularly regarding the OP's scenario.
Yeti. I am qualified as a personal trainer, but dont do it much because I think the profession is full of folk that don't have a clue what they're doing. Full of people that appear to be intent on injuring people.
Enancing neural drive improves strength without adding bulk, ie body weight, but then you knew that being a PT with certificates and that....
The OP said she has no problem with endurance, so your wittering about base fitness?????
Do you know that intervals improve cardiac output more than steady state cardio work?
EDIT - your assessment of the PT industry gives a big opportunity to PTs who can do it right? Surely? You don;t do it because others are no good at it??
I can understand that logic. You're not involved in a profession as you believe that your fellow professionals are incompetent and you're one of the few who knows what they're on about.
Actually, no I can't, surely you'd have clients literally sprinting to you?
Damn your edit iDave. I had an original thought for a minute or two there!
I get that bit, but whats the science behind it?
OP "said" she had no problem with endurance, but then went onto say that she had a problem climbing hills - hence the building base fitness thing.
Intervals improve peak output, not that good for endurance though.
I like to think of fitness like a pyramid. Build a bigger base and you can build the whole thing a lot higher....
As for the why I dont work as a PT - bigger fish to fry. I prefer rehab work.
Intervals improve peak output, not that good for endurance though.
on that note, you should just let it drop, you clearly have no idea... I'm out.
Er okay didnt mean to start a forum fight...
I got so confused that I went swimming instead this evening 😀
Thanks for all the replies though, I'm going to do a bit of research I think.
lexiekay - what you need to know is that there are a thousand ways to skin a cat. Plenty of dogma and poor quality trainers out there. Go and try a few things and find out what you enjoy doing. If you find something you enjoy, you are way more likely to keep at it and that is the only way you will get improvements. Have fun with it.
[i]Intervals improve peak output, not that good for endurance though.[/i]
is, quite frankly, b0ll0x.
Lexi... check out the BMF link I posted. Real PT sessions are so much more beneficial to all round fitness and body conditioning than can be achieved in any gym environment.
Kev
iDave - it's you that doesnt have the clue.
iDave does have a lot of clue but seems unable or unwilling to get his point over particularly well on here. Which is a shame cos I'd love to know more.
As for the OP - I thought I had great endurance until I had a blood lactate test and did a season of base training.
Intervals improve peak output, not that good for endurance though.
on that note, you should just let it drop, you clearly have no idea
I'm intrigued. I've found personally that the interval training I've done didn't help my long ride/race endurance, but again I'd be interested to know more.
I wonder how much it costs to subscribe to a journal? At this rate I'm going to have to.
I got so confused that I went swimming instead this evening
Well done, better than wasting your time trying to understand the bickering girls above.
Swimming is awesome, combine it with cycling and a good diet and you'll be reet.
This is me (can of lager in hand) at my worst..
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and now (please excuse gormless expression)..
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Shed 2 stone plus just cycling, swimming and watching my diet my fitness has increased markedly I have ridden 12 and 24 hour solos and recently completed an 8 hour solo SS race.
iDave does have a lot of clue but seems unable or unwilling to get his point over particularly well on here. Which is a shame cos I'd love to know more.
More unwilling than unable. Take for example relative strength - improving muscle strength without adding bulk. To explain the complexities of training to improve the neural drive rather than muscle fibre growth is not a 2 minute job, and then leads to further questions. In the famous case of fat loss, to get across that reducing body fat is a different issue from becoming efficient at buring body fat became a marathon in itself. It's not my job to do this anymore - though I am seriously considering changing that situation.
Virtually every elite endurance athlete on the planet does a large volume of interval training. When I trained riders for the Tour de France, their longest rides were 3 hours, but with intervals within the rides. That was about 16ish years ago and quite revolutionary at the time - 3 stage winners, 2 yellow jersey holders...
If you have a group of 10k runners and you need to know who is the fastest over 10k, time them over 60 metres... it works
Counter intuitive is usually valid as our intuition is based on misinformation and misunderstanding.
agreed swimming is ace.
Mol... intervals have always worked for me, never had a problem with distance /endurance despite never really doing much of it. How far do you call a long ride - off road ?
In my experience the body remembers endurance for far longer than it remembers speed.
No no no. Swimming doesn't excite you're neural muscular feedback circuits properly and is at least 4.6% less effective than my proven training methods.
My methods also involve beer, which tastes far better than chlorinated water mixed with teenage piss.
No no no. Swimming doesn't excite you're neural muscular feedback circuits properly
It bloody did when two Eastern European girls decided to shower naked in the poolside shower.
Swimming isn't quite so good for weight loss as the water keeps you cool and it's excess heat which is a big calorie consumer - great for muscle conditioning though.
And, it has to be asked, which pool do you use KINGTUT???? 😯
Swimming isn't quite so good for weight loss as the water keeps you cool and it's excess heat which is a big calorie consumer - great for muscle conditioning though.
As I recall that theory is based on outside swimming or in cold water, most indoor pools are around 27 degrees which is warm enough to keep up the calorie burn post exercise.
Or something.
Pools in Bristol BTW.
I swim to be able to swim (and paddle when surfing) better but have never done it for cardio fitness/toning.
You want to run, cycle and eat sensibly. Weights help too IMO - I've had many a niggle knocked on the head after a weights session. Through no research or facts at all, it seems to "reset" the muscles and help them recover.
I think it gives you a shortcut to doing well in races too - it's a little extra oomph that means you take to new sports really easily as well.
Always done weights (since 16ish) and always will until limbs start to fall off. I think they are an essential part of good overall body conditioning.
Don't forget to stretch though.
Double posting error.
Hmm, all very interesting. For my part, I started training for a 24 hour solo Mayhem and did tons (10-13 hours a week) of base over the winter. I've done more intervals and less base subsequently, and my endurance is definitely not as good.
Before doing the base work I could ride for 6 hours fine, so I thought my endurance was good. However I then realised what good endurance really was 🙂
Not disagreeing with you iDave, just relating my experience. I would really love to be able to train well without the long rides because they are hard to fit in these days 🙁
If you have a group of 10k runners and you need to know who is the fastest over 10k, time them over 60 metres... it works
Hmm, maybe it works for 10k runners. I could beat any runner I know over 60m but I'm not even sure if I could run 10k without stopping 🙂
Why does generating excess heat consume calories btw? I'd have thought it was the consuming of calories that cause exceess heat?
Strangely I'm a quick sprinter and 10k runner but pretty average at "middle" distances like 200m, 400m, 800m.
I think endurance is 50% fitness, 50% state of mind. That's how Eddie Izzard ran all those Marathons without dying.
Where you need a strong mind is in the 6 months before hand when you have to get out and do another 3 hour sh*t road loop in rush hour rain, not so much during the race. Anyone can get psyched up for the big day, not so much all the little days.
I think endurance is 50% fitness, 50% state of mind. That's how Eddie Izzard ran all those Marathons without dying.
From my experience, that's about spot on.
Gyms are for people who don't own bikes.
Sorry to all in bringing this thread back up but a couple of mundane questions for iDave.
You mention you should do intensity and resistance work.
What sort of resistance exercise would you advise for someone who rides, swims and surfs (not enough).
Intensity I presume this can be done in the pool as well if so how long and how often would you suggest doing this?
Also where is this famous iDave diet thread I am really intrigued and also need to lose some poundage.
Thanks in advance.
Intensity work, is basically high intensity intervals. Yes, you can do in the pool. Basically any cardio exercise mode - run, row, bike etc
For resistance I prefer use of dumbells, bodyweight exercises and lots of unstable platforms - swiss balls, balance boards etc.
Watch the video in my first post on this thread... only thought of as odd by people who lack understanding of training principles.
Email me for the diet...