[Closed] help a newb - car buying

I am very fussy about the condition of vehicles and this car needs to be serviced and MOTed and nothing more.

Mileage is not going to be high and it will spend a fair bit of time parked and not used around town much

Given these circumstances, I'd really be thinking about hiring when needed. No cars are that easily accommodated. You can hire a lot of cars for the same money as depreciation, maintenance, insurance etc.

Sorry, doesn't exactly answer your questions.

Petrol Mondeo would be my choice

Hiring is what I have always done in the past but with the new circumstances its not going to work so well unfortunately. quickness and ease of use and hire cars you are not allowed things on the roof and estates are not common

But if i am looking for moon on a stick then maybe.

My vehicles have been approx £1500-2000 a year in depreciation, tax and parts (I spanner them myself). As they get older depreciation levels out to zero but then more components are required as they age and mileages increase.

£5k doesn't get a huge amount nowadays - new and used cars have rocketed in price over the last 5 years or so.

I'm swaying towards our next car being leased - there are some good deals if you shop about. Initially when doing the sums lease/PCP etc look way more expensive but if you factor your £5k depreciation, serving, repair costs & road fund and the value of car left in 4years Vs a 4year lease term there isn't much in it but you get a new (reliable) car with potentially lower fuel and road fund costs.

Should be doable, cars dont die at 100k anymore so mileage isn't an issue, especially if you're not doing much. You could buy a nice high high mileage car. Just be aware that expensive older cars still have expensive car spare parts costs.

Have a looks at cars derived from small vans, transit connect, berlingo etc are about the same length as a Mondeo, but the height makes loading them a lot easier.

Lots more private sellers/lower prices on ebay than autotrader.

Just search for all makes and models, set a maximum price and sort by distance from home. See what pops up.

ten year old BMW or a 5 year old Skoda?

Probably better off with an older Skoda to be honest. Skoda, VW, Seat and Audi use an awful lot of common parts, in fact the only difference seems to be the badge of the front (and the premium for the badge). Maybe consider something like a VW Touran, worlds most boring car but very practical, pleasant to drive (as long as you don't expect stellar acceleration or speed). Loads of space and the seats come out to create a mini van. Great driving position. Roof is still low enough to get stuff on and already has length wise bars. In true STW fashion I have a 1.6 diesel (fuel economy is great on long journeys), 2013 plate with 127,000 on it, still going well. There's quite a lot about, higher mileage shouldn't be a major issue, biggest problems with our has been suspension (springs, drop rods etc.) and wheel bearings, but I think that relates to the state of our roads. I'd avoid the pre 2013 version though, had one of those also from new and it was a money pit, got shot of it at 4 years due to the number of things that went wrong just out of warranty that shouldn't have, got a great deal on the current one as we knew the sales manager at our local VW garage and haven't regretted it.

I'm less experienced than many but am pleasantly surprised at what £3-5K can get you (no way would I ever buy a new car tho). I've bought privately and got on ok, on the basis that the rights you have against a dealer are only worth how much you can be bothered pursuing them.

Plenty of info on specific cars online including what goes wrong with them.

Mileage is not going to be high and it will spend a fair bit of time parked and not used around town much...........

Diesel or petrol? ......
given low expected mileage I am not that bothered about economy

Petrol.

You have to do 15k miles/yr before diesel really gets you any gains.

Personally I’d rather (and do have) a 10 year old BMW rather than a 5 year old Octavia but I wouldn’t buy a £5k BMW.

I’d look at Autotrader or eBay classifieds for private buying.

Buying at your price bracket will see all manner of dealers from dodgy backstreet lockups to decent well respected places.

Can you separate the need for instant availability and load lugging?
If you can, I’d spend less than £5k on a Honda jazz and hire vans for load lugging.
If you can’t, the petrol mondeo, Mazda or Toyota of some description.
Buy on condition rather than model.

The load lugging is likely to be fairly frequent ( I hope)

2009 Grey Ford Mondeo Estate
Gives you plenty of spare cash & its near you 🙂

ta

Arnold Shark / Clark, for all their faults, have provided us with a couple of decent cars.

IMO, for just two of you, you don't need a huge car.

The V70 is massive - perfect for 4 or 5 of us, a fortnights kit, boats on the roof and four bikes on the back. But it costs more in maintenance, tyres and general costs such as MPG.
The Ibiza Estate is big for a small car - it carries a single canoe just fine and two bikes on the back if needed. Costs a lot less on maintenance, tyres etc.

If I were you I would split the difference - something like a Focus Estate or Corrolla/Auris/Ceed/Civic estate is perfect. Stick to a petrol, the simpler the better for maintenance.

You have to do 15k miles/yr before diesel really gets you any gains.

Depends on the age of the car.

At the cheaper end the price gap shrinks to nothing. My Bangernomics Berlingo Diesel paid for itself in about 2 weeks / 3 tanks Vs the petrol equivalent.

Obviously a 10 year old diesel has more expensive bits than a 10 year old petrol, but modern patrols are also turbocharged, and on older cars in general there's always a clutch, belt, bearing about to wear out at some point.

FWIW my last car was £5k Ford C-max 1.6 petrol at 5 years olf with 33k on it and lasted another 10 years/120k before being written off in an accident. It was still good as new mechnically. Compared to the Berlingo anyway, that's the same age and feels like it's had a hard life 🤣.

On that basis I'd say Ford S-Max and get whatever the best one available locally within budget is regardless of engine or trim options.

tjagain
Full Member

ta

Father in law has a 2009 2.0 petrol saloon Mondeo with 212000 miles on its been abused and driven hard for all its life as he's had it since it was an ex demo.
I've driven it yesterday and apart from slight wear on the switches graphics it drives perfectly

2009 Grey Ford Mondeo Estate
Gives you plenty of spare cash & its near you

Looks tidy but £305 VED - ouch!

Premier Icon
MrOvershoot
Full Member

2009 Grey Ford Mondeo Estate
Gives you plenty of spare cash & its near you 🙂

Run an absolute mile from that ^ and it's crap MOT history that would suggest it's not had any care for the last fews years.

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.133984590.1552647113.1618747306-278110864.1618747306

that MOt checker is exactly the sort of info I need. ta

Jeez I hate being a newb!
I am a decent mechanic so I guess the usual checks would be a crawl round underneath - check exhaust systems / cats / sills and floor pans, shake the wheels to check for bushing wear accelearte hard in evey gear / check dipsticks for oil cleanliness

Do modern cars still have filler caps to check for emulsion?

anything else?

OK so I was only looking at cars near TJ but on an MOT tyres and exhaust problems on a 2009 car are hardly rare?

OK this is a 12 plate with a a new engine fitted
Mondeo 2012 2.0 Titanium Powershift Estate

Probably better off with an older Skoda to be honest. Skoda, VW, Seat and Audi use an awful lot of common parts

But can be VERY expensive to replace wear and tear parts (DSG). The cost to repair my 3.5year old Skoda with 14k miles was 1/3 the cost to buy a 1 year old Belingo MPV with 3k miles on it. Even then, I couldn't find a dealer willing to do the work. And no, it wasn't involved in an accident or fire etc. Just poor bad luck.

on an MOT tyres and exhaust problems on a 2009 car are hardly rare?

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily write a prospect off for that, the owner just seems to turn up, have an MOT done and got fixed what was needed for a pass. Not really the sign of a cherished car to give such a swerve to proactive maintenance though!

Personally I’d rather (and do have) a 10 year old BMW rather than a 5 year old Octavia but I wouldn’t buy a £5k BMW.

Indeed.

Although a car at 5 years old / 60,000miles should be solid, be aware that they can have expensive bills like timing belt replacements which can add £800 onto the price instantly.

I don’t understand car prices though. The price of leasing a new car has dropped yet the second hand values have rocketed.

I’d look no further than a petrol Honda Accord or Toyota Avensis estate.

that MOt checker is exactly the sort of info I need. ta

Jeez I hate being a newb!
I am a decent mechanic so I guess the usual checks would be a crawl round underneath – check exhaust systems / cats / sills and floor pans, shake the wheels to check for bushing wear accelearte hard in evey gear / check dipsticks for oil cleanliness

Do modern cars still have filler caps to check for emulsion?

anything else

Decent branded tyres not Chinese ditch finders - also decent branded battery = looked after car rather than budget banger
Pedal and steering wheel wear matching mileage
Mayo under oil filler cap
Oil tide in water header tank
Smell of diesel on dipstick coupled with high oil level
Replacement wings - check bolts for paint disturbance = front end shunt
Up inside front suspension turrets from the wheel arch for rust setting hold
Pull boot liner and check spare wheel well for ripples/rear end damage
Move drivers seat belt away from bolster and make sure it's not covering a split
Check when timing belt due/last done
Stick finger in wheel and check for brake disc lip
Ask why selling - check how long owned on V5

Yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily write a prospect off for that, the owner just seems to turn up, have an MOT done and got fixed what was needed for a pass. Not really the sign of a cherished car to give such a swerve to proactive maintenance though!

To be fair, a lot of it is stuff like worn suspension bushings (a clunk if you listen out for it), a tyre worn on an inside edge, an indicator bulb thats gone yellow, and a rusty exhaust.

Some of those things a mechanic might pick up before an MOT. But an average person probably wouldn't.

And "preventative maintenance" means different things to different people. Some people swear by replacing the oil and filter every 6k, why? It's not the 70s anymore, we have synthetic oil now. On an Ariel Atom I'd expect the bushings changed every few years to keep them perfect as proactive maintenance. On a family saloon Id not expect them to be picmed up before the MOT because no one has pry bars and ramps in their garage.

On a 9 year old Mondeo I'd expect most but probably not all the stamps in the book were there and check the cambelt had a few years left on it. Everything else I'd say was a visual check and a test drive.

Premier Icon
thisisnotaspoon
Full Member

Yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily write a prospect off for that, the owner just seems to turn up, have an MOT done and got fixed what was needed for a pass. Not really the sign of a cherished car to give such a swerve to proactive maintenance though!

To be fair, a lot of it is stuff like worn suspension bushings (a clunk if you listen out for it), a tyre worn on an inside edge, an indicator bulb thats gone yellow, and a rusty exhaust.

Some of those things a mechanic might pick up before an MOT. But an average person probably wouldn’t.

And “preventative maintenance” means different things to different people. Some people swear by replacing the oil and filter every 6k, why? It’s not the 70s anymore, we have synthetic oil now. On an Ariel Atom I’d expect the bushings changed every few years to keep them perfect as proactive maintenance. On a family saloon Id not expect them to be picmed up before the MOT because no one has pry bars and ramps in their garage.

On a 9 year old Mondeo I’d expect most but probably not all the stamps in the book were there and check the cambelt had a few years left on it. Everything else I’d say was a visual check and a test drive

But why buy a flogged out money pit when there are cherished looked after cars out there.

But why buy a flogged out money pit when there are cherished looked after cars out there.

Because, realistically a £3-£5k car isn't "cherrished". Expensive sports car with a known problem, might get fixed preventatively on a "cherrished" car. On a bog standard Mondeo, you're going to find bushings get fixed when they wear out 🤷‍♂️

And TBF doesn't need to be.

My last C-max's previous owner traded it in because they couldn't cope with a manual gearbox. They'd also worn a set of tyres and rear brake pads out, and missed and annual service in ~33k. And the boot looked like it had done some work too. It was the definition of the sort of thing internet experts suck through their teeth at and tell you to walk away. But I needed a car that week and the dealer stuck new pads and tyres on it.

Didn't do it any long term harm though. It was still on its original clutch when it was scrapped!

Hire a van when you need to transport tandems & canoes and then hire a car when you don't.

Otherwise £5k buys you trouble - when it goes wrong you have to fix it.

In answer to your question - I would take the 5yr old Skoda, in fact I would take most 5 yr old cars over a 10 yr old because I don't have the time or inclination to change the bits that would need changing.

At 5 yrs a 50-70k FSH car will have lots of life left. A 10yr old 90-110k car could after a few more years use need new dampers, if you are load lugging new rear springs, bushed may perish, corrosion etc.

That's not to say you won't find one with all that done. Buy on condition, history, look for 10-15k a year and don't touch low millage cars at those ages. May have gone 2 yrs between oil changes stewing in acidic moisture laden oil/ egr and egr cooler gummed up.

Mondeo estate gives a lot for the money - look to see if the bottom timing chain has been changed. 2 people at work had these fail, one paid a lot for a rebuild the other scrapped an otherwise perfectly good car losing a similar amount (this may have been coincidental bad luck though).

Volvo v70 or merc eclass estate.
Huge load luggers with low roof for tandem mounting without step ladders.
Likely to be owned by old people who just take it to a garage to be fixed.
Mot. Gov. Uk for fail history and milage check

I would check the above plus driveshaft boots. Volvo cambelt is 90k, merc diesel 150k chain replacements recc interval

Avoid geartronic volvos

Interesting split on opinions - a couple of folk stating a £5000 big estate could well be a money pit, ramp up on my taxis and hire cars, others that a car in that price bracket should be fine

some good stuff to think about. Ta folks

Big posh german mile munchers do seem to be very good value - I guess because of thirsty engines?

Big posh german mile munchers do seem to be very good value – I guess because of thirsty engines?

Yes, but mainly because of the high cost of running compared to the cost of the car - servicing and a lot to go wrong and expensive when it does.

From your description of prioritising reliability I'd suggest going Japanese - most things from Honda, Toyota etc will (generally) be more reliable although models vary, how it's been used and looked after matter a lot plus there's plain luck to consider.

A good guide is to look at what models taxi drivers choose (the budget end of the market rather than the fancy airport limousine end of things) - there's a reason why certain models are commonly used.

Mondeo was my first thought also. I've no idea how long your tandem is but you might even get it in a hatchback with the front wheel* off? Worth testing, the boot with the back seats down is cavernous.

On your usage:

Modern diesel engines need the occasional long run to get hot enough to start burning off shit or you'll start killing (expensive) filters and sensors.

Modern car batteries will die (expensively) if they go into deep discharge, which depending on age and condition will likely be after a few weeks laid up unused.

This limits your option to be particularly choosy as big cars around your budget tend to be almost exclusively diesel, there are many ex-fleet company cars out there which will have been driven with varying degrees of care but will at least have been serviced regularly.

If you just want something to pop to the shops once a month then you either need something made in the 20th Century or a taxi.

(* of the bike)

Big posh german mile munchers do seem to be very good value – I guess because of thirsty engines?

I'm only guessing, but I'd have thought that the sort of people who buy big posh German mile munchers tend rather to want new big posh German mile munchers rather than 10-year old ones?

usage will be visiting my folks a 50 mile drive away and then getting the most out of opportunities to get away into the countryside with either a canoe or the tandem. so its likely to be twice weekly 50+ mile runs. No nipping to the shops

to fit the tandem in the boot with just the wheels off needs around a 6 ft load bed. Remove the fork as well and it can be a bit shorter

Big posh german mile munchers do seem to be very good value – I guess because of thirsty engines?

Depends on the model.

If you took say a 520D and compared to a Mondeo 2.0 diesel. The BMW will be much more expensive to buy. And parts will probably cost more. Even consumable stuff like tyres will tend to be less common sizes which means more £££.

They only look good value if your mindset is £40k car for £10k Vs £20k car for £5k and the old Beemer has "saved" you more money buying it used.

There's also the odd daft thing like a 4litre V8 S class or 7 series. Which weren't fast enough to have a following and become classics, but cost so much to run that no-one wants them as Bangernomics options.

to fit the tandem in the boot with just the wheels off needs around a 6 ft load bed. Remove the fork as well and it can be a bit shorter

Some van derived cars have a folding front seat, as long as Mrs TJ doesn't mind being in the back that might be the easiest way to move big bikes. I do this on long trips with surfboards as the OH just sleeps and the boards make a racket on the roof.

Look at the reliability tables....not just the most reliable, but the least.
You'll be surprised at the once trusted names that end up near the bottom.

I agree with @rustyspanner - look at reliability facts, not someone's perception.

a couple of folk stating a £5000 big estate could well be a money pit,

My V70 is worth around £5k now.

It's in the garage next week. Service. Suspension bushings. An unidentified whine (I think alternator bearings).

That is going to be a £1500 bill from my (good) back street garage.

Big, heavy diesel estate is not needed for the two of you, even with tandem, walking kit and the boat.

I guess maybe the BMW thing was me trying to avoid buying a ford mundane!

We have had the tandem in a berlingo with 3 people but it needed the forks off. I am thinking a low roof car as if / when we go canoeing its likely to be just me to load it hence not wanting something with a high roof. I don't like putting bikes on the roof

Ta again folks.

May I present the answer to your car dreams. Yes its a Dacia Logan;

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103230505631?price-from=4500&year-from=2014&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&sort=relevance&body-type=Estate&postcode=de159gu&radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&maximum-mileage=80000&price-to=5500&include-delivery-option=on&fuel-type=Petrol&page=2

Cheap, basic (very basic) transport. Get a 1.2 not a 0.9 and enjoy budget motoring. We had one as a hire car and I was surprised at how well it went. (Rose tinted holiday glasses were on at the time).

For vehicles up to £5k I would suggest motors.co.uk rather than autotrader. Buying a used car is always a bit of a gamble. Good luck!