[Closed] Helmetcam / YouTube justice strikes again

Lol at the struggled bit. Bet that wiped the smile of the smug ****'s face.

Turns out the bloke runs a blog, The Cycling Lawyer, bit more interesting chat about it there:
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.com/2012/01/scott-lomas-convicted-and-sentenced-for.html

[the driver] was in breach of a suspended prison sentence imposed by the Crown Court in April 2010 following his conviction of a crime of violence, malicious wounding... ..he was fined £250, a victim surcharge of £15 and prosecution costs of £300 (total £565).

Turns out the prosecuting counsel was a cyclist too 😀

Ha ha! Awesome!!

That is well funny.

the back story on that is horrendous - he's been trying for months to get the Police to take the case seriously.

how can the police ask the same officer to review a case who originally rejected it and expect them to take an unbiased view, for example?

^^ yep, and that was with the guy being a barrister who presumably understands the legal process and how to get things moving!
Kinda makes you wonder what chance average Joe has??!!

On a similar, but really non-related note, this is from a survey from Institute of Advance Motorists. Strange wording. Do we have accidents among ourselves?
[IMG] [/IMG]

The driver apparently showed up in the [url= http://road.cc/content/news/31888-driver-who-threatened-kill-cycling-lawyer-puts-case-roadcc-it-truth-video ]comments section of road.cc[/url]

Funnily enough he had a different account of it, which seems to be roundly disproved. But even in his "justification" there were still some corkers:

"As the footage continues, he had been in front of me for a good half mile, in rush hour traffic, doing 15 mph when the limit is 30, steering in front of me, tempting fate. if i had of been such a thug, i would of knocked him down there and then, becuase he was doing what he shouldn't be doing. who rides infront of moving cars?..

People need to ask, why would i be tooting or swearing? It wouldn't be for no reason would it? I was provoked!

..Also, when i turn left, i have no need to indicate as it's a left only lane."

Good coverage and the full background here:
http://road.cc/content/news/50682-persistence-pays-cycling-lawyer-motorist-who-threatened-kill-him-convicted

[i] if i had of been such a thug, i would of knocked him down there and then[/i]

Yeah, instead of driving off like a chicken when confronted!

The driver never appears to be too close to the cyclist and the cyclist does seem to be riding in middle of the lane on numerous occassions which would annoy me if I was behind him. I havent seen the full video but IMO its cyclist like him that give alot of cyclists a bad name.

Not good that driver threatened to kill him though, looks like handbags out time to me.

Callum Best in the golf??

the cyclist does seem to be riding in middle of the lane on numerous occassions which would annoy me if I was behind him

😯 He quite sensibly takes the primary position while there are traffic islands in the middle of the road to prevent motorists trying to pass him when there isn't room.

I believe that is pretty much the recommended advice.

I havent seen the full video but..

Watch a bit of the full video from about 1:45 in. You'll see him pull to the left to let one car pass him between the islands, then he pulls back out again to take the primary as another traffic island approaches.

Blokey in the blue car gets annoyed, toots the horn and gives him verbal, cos he clearly intended to squeeze past at the pinch point and was denied it.

Full video:

Commute by bike much SiB?

(PS. YOU CANNOT TELL SOMEONE'S ROAD POSITION FROM A HELMET CAM VIDEO)

Do we have accidents among ourselves?

Sometimes, yes. I crashed into a bloke at Swinley once. I was going far too fast for the amount I could see at a particular corner and hit him almost head on. Hurt the chap's finger quite a bit, felt pretty bad but he was ok about it!

And here we see the crux of Golfboy's annoyance.
He got overtaken by a bicycle while sitting in a traffic queue.
Absolutely typical.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Watched the video most of the way through.....cyclist weaving through cars to get to front of queue at roundabout, overtaking cars as they are moving getting very close to them whilst cycling on white criss cross lines (dont know technical term but I know you're not meant to drive/ride over them) in the middle of road , on numerous occassions glancing over to the right which by very nature of action moves cyclist to middle of road........I'm just saying he's far from the 'perfect cyclist' and has wound up a motorist, I'm not saying motorist is in the right but he's bound to rub a few people up the wrong way. Doesnt look too bad to me, thats all Im saying. I experience worse on daily basis.

DezB....yes, commute to work every single day for the last 3 years on my bike, only 12 miles each way but starts on a dirt track, then on to unlit B roads, progresses to 60mph A roads (1mile long and perfectly straight, cars scream along it), through a town and then through a city, And race home fast to get back to my springer!

I experience worse on daily basis.

But you shouldn't experience people threatening to kill you (or "worse") on a daily basis just because you chose to ride a bike, even if you are an absolutely terrible cyclist!

Edit: (which he isn't)

The driver never appears to be too close to the cyclist and the cyclist does seem to be riding in middle of the lane on numerous occassions which would annoy me if I was behind him. I havent seen the full video but IMO its cyclist like him that give alot of cyclists a bad name.

Seriously? I see nothing wrong with his riding, either as a cyclist or a driver and I watched the vid all theway through. He has every right, and it's the sensible thing to do, to take to the middle of the lane in narrow sections. He's perfectly within his rights to filter in stationary or slow moving traffic and none of that affects the drivers other than their ego.

cycling on white criss cross lines (dont know technical term but I know you're not meant to drive/ride over them)

Chevrons, and they're bordered by broken lines meaning they CAN be crossed if it's safe to do so.

wrt glancing to the right - it's called being aware of the traffic around you - do you rely solely on your hearing to identify if someone is coming past or do you just cycle along blindly? Bikes rarely have mirrors to see behind and if planning to move anywhere within the lane you want to look behind to check what's there, thats just common sense.

Dear god, no wonder some cyclists trudge along at 10mph in the gutter praying cars dont run them down, they don't take basic sensible precautions and make use of the road as they're allowed.

Actually he filtered to the front a couple of times that I wouldn't, but other than that...

Watched the whole vid and my personal feelings were..

Dick head driving the car and pathetic excuse for a man on the bike. Who goes to the authorities over something so trivial.

A lawyer.

A lawyer.

Exactly. My friend was once enjoying a bit of friendly banter at a Sunday football league match with a rival when a lawyer came up and offered to be a witness.

[img] [/img]

Yeah, I didn't see anything wrong with his riding, I certainly wouldn't (don't) sit behind big queues of traffic while on my bike.
Difference is, I wouldn't get into a discussion with someone for shouting at me because I wouldn't hear them. 😉

Dear god, no wonder some cyclists trudge along at 10mph in the gutter praying cars dont run them down

indeed. i chided a good mate (who is getting into mtb and doesn't cycle much on the roads) for riding in the gutter and his words were along the lines of:

"yeah but if i was a driver behind you and you were riding where you are, that would piss me off"

i gave that short shrift 🙂

I think someone put it very well on one of the other threads about a helmetcam incident, that for the sake of getting to work 20 seconds early you'd actually endanger someones life to make an overtake. Personally, after seeing good advice on here i do not let them have this opportunity.

Funny how the cyclist couldn't hear the driver, even feeling the need to tell him as he rode past him, UNTIL it was a specific threat... Then it was all, 'would you mind repeating that for the benefit of the camera' lol. Stupid nasty driver obviously in the wrong, but pathetic cyclist, who antagonised the situation should really just man up. No one ends up looking good on this video.

Only abused? My Peugeot driver hit me in the face! Police can't prosecute as the car was not registered to any owner. What helmet cam for assaults by drivers? AJ04OBB driver is wanted by the Police. Hopefully an ANPR will find him eventually.

[i]but pathetic cyclist, who antagonised the situation should really just man up. No one ends up looking good on this video.[/i]

So you know that's all the abuse he got? You can see what the car was doing behind him? I suspect there was a fair bit of intimidation from the little pillock.

Lets give every lawyer and policeman a decent commuting bike I say. Then things might start changing.

So you know that's all the abuse he got? You can see what the car was doing behind him? I suspect there was a fair bit of intimidation from the little pillock.

meh

Dick head driving the car and pathetic excuse for a man on the bike. Who goes to the authorities over something so trivial.

It may appear trivial, but if someone's actions are dealt with at the stage where it is merely a threat then surely this is better than dealing with his actions when he actually carries through the threat.

Id certainly be nearer the pavement than the cyclist was but definitely not in the gutter. I know someone posted that you cant tell the road position with a helmetcam but I can tell he's got plenty of room to move to the left. I try to ride a foot from the kerb, head down, not move to centre to prevent cars getting past thus not annoying drivers.

GrahamS.....I know, I shouldnt experience worse but I do and I expect the majority of users on here do too, 4 cyclists in our office and they too couldnt believe the cyclist complaining. Its the way it is out there, its a jungle (even if it shouldnt be)!! As for relying solely on hearing to be aware whats around me.... I listen to ipod so no, I keep my straight line, get on with it and let those behind me deal with their journey without looking around to see whats behind me (unless turning right).

He's looking round to see whats coming but that naturally makes him move to middle of road so if something is coming....!! What does he expect to see behind him? Whats he going to do if he see's something behind with he doesnt agree with? Move to the middle of the road and annoy drivers? A quick shifty of the eyes to the right is all it should take if you need to see whats approaching behind you which doesnt naturally push you to middle of the road.

Lets face it its a grey area which we could discuss forever and agree on nothing. I've had numerous cycling holidays on roads in this country and abroad, commuting on bike for 3 years religiously and touchwood, my style of riding (foot from kerb, straight line whatever the road width) has served me well and doesnt seem to annoy motorists so I shall be carrying on as normal.

Elzorillo above got it bob on IMO....dickhead driver and pathetic excuse of a man on the bike. But hey, each to their own.

3 of my efforts.

thus not annoying drivers

I'd rather annoy drivers than have them squeeze past at choke points and run the risk of them hitting me or damaging me or my bike.

I'm always amazed at the number of people of who seem to want to make excuses for dangerous driving on here.

I used to cycle near the A30 where the vid was filmed and didn't move into primary position where the road narrowed to go under a railway bridge, and then got my handlebars clipped by an impatient driver squeezing through the gap. I got knocked off, the car drove off. I'm not sure if they are even aware anything happened despite me shouting. Called police but no action taken.

The real problem here is lack of cycling infrastructure. Cyclecraft is just the least worst way of dealing with it, but that creates conflict like in the vids when drivers think you're doing it to annoy them or because you think you "own the roads".

I try to ride a foot from the kerb, head down, not move to centre to prevent cars getting past thus not annoying drivers.

Then you're taking the most dangerous, ill-advised option that even the highway code recommends against, just so you can be nice to drivers who, had they half a brain, could pass you in a split second safely OR be held up for a matter of seconds. It's all about perspective.

The real problem here is lack of cycling infrastructure.

Not wishing to be contrary, but....

I think you're wrong. The problem here is lack of awareness by everyone involved and a sense of entitlement. Cycling specific infrastructure simply serves to be divisive and give a reason for drivers to develop stupid attitudes and use them against cyclists at every possible opportunity, even when infrastructure isn't available.

People need to accept that there are slow road users and fast road users and all must occupy the same roads safely, and that no-one has more of a right to be there than the other. When this happens all will be respected for what they are and there will be less conflict. The more we try to make groups special and make special catering for them the more segregated it will be come and the further from their own viewpoint people will see other groups being.

not much of an incident imho
i watched a cabbie drive into my mates back wheel quite deliberatly and then speed off, half a dozen witnesses guy was finally found by the police who didnt prosecute claiming not enough evidence. the copper i spoke to told me 'no one was hurt and we didnt think the case was strong enough for prosecution' (!!!) no option but to drop it in other words, underlying message injury or no case! the bike was a write off...
useless
we are seen as unimportant in the eyes of the law unless we are hurt
makes me sick

Flipping 'eck. Maybe PC Plod reads this forum - might explain why he couldn't be ars**d either.
As for SiB, are you for real? 'Giving cyclists a bad name' because he doesn't ride one foot from the kerb and looks around. Seriously, SiB get some bikeability training or read Cyclecraft or, at the very least, google 'directgov' and 'safe cycling' and read the official advice.

not much of an incident imho

I don't think it is the driving that got him into trouble. It was the "death threats".

He allegedly said something along the lines of [i]"If I see that again I'll ******* kill you"[/i], then confirmed he said it on camera.

[url= http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.com/2012/01/sorry-but-is-sorry-always-good-enough.html ]His experience with the ADSA lorry[/url] seems like much more of an "incident", in terms of bad driving endangering his life, but the police won't touch that.

It's a good win for us commuters.

[b]But hats off the the bloke[/b]

Martin Porter, 49, was making his regular 30 mile (48km) commute

Wonder how regular, regular is?

Lets give every lawyer and policeman a decent commuting bike I say

This is an excellent idea. I for one would happily ride my new commuter bike all the way along the scenic cycle path to my office.

[/b]Coffeeking[b]....what does the highway code recommend? Is it written by cyclists? Every road different, every situation different, my foot from kerb with head down suits me just fine and has done for years incident free. Alot of drivers dont have half a brain unfortunately and try to get from a to b at any cost, I just try to stick to my section of road and let them all get on with it. Its not right and would be much nicer if we could all get on together as road users singing and whistling as cysclists and drivers bond together but its a fact of life it aint going to happen so I'll keep to my section of road and let other road users hopefully stick to theirs without encroaching my space. Not trying to be nice to drivers, just keeping myself to myself and hopefully not annoying drivers. Its a sad fact of life that riding further away from the kerb does annoy alot of drivers no matter how wrong that may be.

[b]whatnobeer[/b]....Id rather not annoy drivers by sticking to my 12inches from the kerb. Yes, it does annoy drivers if you prevent them getting past you, a fact and a sad state of affairs, everyone should be equal on the road no matter what mode of transport. By not annoying them Im hoping that they dont try to squeeze through that narrow gap with me. Yes, I know this doesnt work in every scenario, depends on driver, every case different. My view is that if a driver behind you can see that youre not preventing them getting past you by riding in middle of lane then they are less likely to try to squeeze past you and wait. Again, everyone will have different views.

Definitely not making excuses for damgerous driving as there is no excuse for it.

[b]londoncyclist[/b]......yet another sad state of affairs but cycling far away from Kerb does annoy drivers and give cyclists bad name. Completlely wrong but it happens, I wish it didnt. And no, it doesnt mean you should ride close to the kerb but I chose to.

Cyclecraft....as somebody said above " Cyclecraft is just the least worst way of dealing with it, but that creates conflict like in the vids when drivers think you're doing it to annoy them or because you think you "own the roads".

My style of riding suits me and has done me well (so far) but god knows what my return journey today will be like and how many motorists I annoy.

Everyone got valid points but unfortunately they dont apply to every rider or situation.

Everyone got valid points but unfortunately they dont apply to every rider or situation

SiB - that is a very dangerous riding style you adopt - seriously - get some training or read cyclecraft. You risk becoming an accident statistic riding like that

The BBC article has censored a line form the driver's defence:

"I was following the advice of the BBC's drving specialist, Jeremy Clarkson".

Chevrons, and they're bordered by broken lines meaning they CAN be crossed if it's safe to do so.

This isn't exactly true. According to THC you "should not" enter chevron areas unless necessary (and safe).

Though, quite what defines 'necessary', I don't know.

SiB. If you ride 30 cm from the kerb, where are you going to go when someone tries to squeeze past you because they think there's room between you and a traffic island / on-coming vehicle?

Why not check what's behind you, and take the position in the road preventing someone from doing that until the road widens. Remember, car drivers are supposed to overtake you as if you were a car anyway, so you're not slowing them down by being further out.

Like a kipper. "Did you just threaten to kill me?" "Yes I did." Enjoy your trip to court... 😀

Though, quite what defines 'necessary', I don't know.

I think overtaking stationary traffic on a bicycle counts. Clearly it's open to interpretation - I very much doubt anybody has ever been prosecuted just for entering a chevron area with broken lines - effectively it's just an extended version of the longer "hazard warning" centre lines, about which the HC says:
"Do not cross it unless you can see the road is clear and wish to overtake or turn off."

As for the people condemning the lawyer for going to the police for something "trivial", well see the conviction rate for bad driving around cyclists as evidenced on this very thread - it's very hard to get a successful conviction. Threatening language is far simpler, as you just have to prove that the threat was made - it's an absolute offence. Do you really think it's not a good thing for this driver to be prosecuted for something?

Enjoy your trip to court...

I'm kind of surprised he didn't reply with that at that point - it was a bit of an obvious setup when he got the driver to confirm his words!

The real problem here is lack of cycling infrastructure.

No, the real problem here is lack of awareness & consideration of other road users.

Cycling Infrastructure is the least worst way of dealing with it.

Motorist Says : "You should be riding on the cycle path"
Transalation : "I'm too stupid/lazy/inconsiderate to make allowances for slower road users"

Motorist Says : "You should be wearing a hi-viz jacket"
Translation : "I'm too stupid to pay proper attention to what's right in front of me when I'm driving"

[b]londoncyclist[/b]....not kicking off at all. Everyone got there own riding style and if they're happy with that then they should carry on as normal. I've always ridden the way I do and its done me no harm and hopefully doesnt wind drivers up. All im saying it annoys alot of drivers if cyclist far away from kerb probably cos they're not cyclists themselves. In an ideal world driver should always wait until safe to overtake but this doesnt happen.

[b]tandemjeremy[/b]....I'm off to read cyclecraft, I hope its written by cyclists who commute everyday!!? If cyclist on youtube vid is riding the cyclecraft way then its not a good advert for following the cyclecraft way IMO, its just a way to annoy idiot drivers and wind them up as proved. If cyclecraft any good then i suppose it should say at the first sign of 'road rage/confrontation/annoyed' drivers just stop cycling and let the motorist drive off.

[b]zokes[/b]......I think the important phrase is 'supposed to overtake you as if you were a car'. If this was the case all of the time then Id ride away from the kerb more. If someone tries to squeeze past me then I guess im on the pavement or grass verge either on two wheels or on my backside, we'll see when it happens. It alwys worries me that if I prevent an idiot driver from passing me he'll prevent me from carrying on with my commute.

As I previously said it all depends on situation - 3 miles of my commute is on 60mph bendy realtively narrow A roads and a dead straight mile which encourages drivers to speed. On the bendy A road if a car was coming up the hill to the bend at 60mph and I was away from kerb and on coming car then I guess I would be hit as they are tight corners at brow of hill and driver wouldnt be able to stop in time so I keep in to kerb. Im surprised it is a 60mph road.

Cyclecraft is a way of riding.

Have a read with an open mind. Good on you for having a think about it. Many folk on here cannot take any criticism of their riding

I was away from kerb and on coming car then I guess I would be hit as they are tight corners at brow of hill and driver wouldnt be able to stop in time so I keep in to kerb. Im surprised it is a 60mph road.

On a left hand bend they would be able to see you from much further away

I'm off to read cyclecraft, I hope its written by cyclists who commute everyday!!?

Yep! It's written by John Franklin and is the foundation of Bikability / National Cycle Training Standard (i.e. the modern "cycling proficiency test")

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

No, the real problem here is lack of awareness & consideration of other road users.

Theres a lot of people, in fact i'd say most people, that are too afraid to cycle on the roads and i don't think thats going to be resolved by education alone. Building roads with pinch points, urban dual carriageways with 40mph limits (often driven at close to 60mph) and large urban gyratorys are examples of really poor design that makes mixing bicycles with vehicles unnecessarily difficult. Its all very well telling people to move into the middle lane and cycle at 20mph hoping theres an understanding driver behind you, but i can hardly imagine my 60 year old mother or a small child doing that.

Several large cities in the world seem to be doing a lot more in that respect, even car dominated australia and america..

I agree with where cyclecraft is coming from and directing people towards, if it makes the roads a safer place for all concerned then I hope everyone reads it and digests the advice, car drivers included.

Big difference in my opinion from commuter traffic and 'leisurely' drivers and different styles needed. For example I would never ride two abreast whilst commuting but would on say a sunday morning due to different drivers and attitudes. I feel safe on my commute and kniow I wouldnt if adopted cyclecraft techniques of riding further away from kerb. Not wanting to tempt fate I've always got to work and back safely. I often wonder if the car that got quite close to me would have actually hit me if I was further away from kerb or whether he/she would have stopped as they couldnt get past me? Its not a question I want answering by experimenting with a different riding position in the road - Ive had non-eventful commutes which Im very happy to remain uneventful!

Maybe road width and speed limits account for my riding style? If there were alot of left side roads with the school run coming out of I could well be tempted to adopt a more central lane position for example.

At the end of the day I dont want to hear of any cyclists involved in any accidents or conflicts and if their riding style is a proven safe one for them then why change? I know that if I changed mine for a more central position I would be panicing about cars approaching me from behind on the 60mph stretches in the rain on dark nights such as tonight, on frosty ice covered car window mornings, at anytime actually.

Cyclecraft doesn't suggest riding in the middle of the road all the time, though that seems to be a common misconception of people that haven't read it.

But one of the key messages is that if you want/need drivers to notice and engage with you as a vehicle, rather than ignore you, then you need to be part of traffic, not incidental to it. Hence the ideas about taking control of the lane when you need to, staying out at junctions etc.

Having said that, I wouldn't personally go anywhere near a 60mph road on me bike - especially on a dark rainy night with frost about!

SiB, good that you are going to read cyclecraft but would be better if you were man enough to withdraw your first comment. The wriggling probably does not convince anybody.

the cyclist does seem to be riding in middle of the lane on numerous occassions which would annoy [b][i]me[/i][/b] if I was behind him. I havent seen the full video but IMO its cyclist like him that give alot of cyclists a bad name.

All im saying it annoys alot of drivers if cyclist far away from kerb probably cos they're not cyclists themselves.

I agree with where cyclecraft is coming from and directing people towards, if it makes the roads a safer place for all concerned then I hope everyone reads it and digests the advice, car drivers included.

So if you want motorists to digest this advice (as you claim) do you:
(a) ride submissively, condemn cyclists who ride assertively ('gives cyclists a bad name')and find excuses for thugs ('would annoy me') or
(b)challenge thug, report thug and get him prosecuted?

IMO whoever described cyclist as 'pathetic' might have a go at this multiple choice test as well.

Shame this thread got so polarised and personal.

I can understand what SiB was saying in respect of drivers not understanding why cyclists may want to take the lane. They should understand, but they don't. No-one's told them about Cyclecraft* (read only by committed assertive cyclists?) or Bikeability. "Central government" moved the goalposts when they legitimized primary position etc - but they haven't told the great driving public yet .....

But a problem with the Franklin view of the world is that effectively marginalises those who feel comfortable near the kerb - the shoppers and kids trundling along at 8mph - why shouldn't they be able to do that?

*yep I've read it.

But a problem with the Franklin view of the world is that effectively marginalises those who feel comfortable near the kerb - the shoppers and kids trundling along at 8mph - why shouldn't they be able to do that?

The existence of a book giving guidance on a safer way to cycle doesn't stop anybody riding in the gutter. Are you seriously suggesting that it makes life more dangerous for them?

But one of the key messages is that if you want/need drivers to notice and engage with you as a vehicle, rather than ignore you, then you need to be part of traffic, not incidental to it. Hence the ideas about taking control of the lane when you need to, staying out at junctions etc.

If I commuted by bike I think I'd actually sit in the queue at lights etc to emphasise the point
If we opt out of being part of the traffic whenever it suits us, I don't see why "they" should respect our right to rejoin whenever we feel like it

It is not illegal to filter and we are always part of the traffic and are not asking to rejoin it

you think it does not irate the cyclist being overtaken by a car that they then just need to overtake when it stops in the traffic ...works both ways sometimes they are faster and sometimes we are.

Everyone learnt to ride like this by cars cutting us up/near misses and taking up defensive/positive/assertive positions to make them treat us as trffic and with respect. it would be great to get respect without having to do this but try commuting and you will see this is not happening [ to be fair few road users get respect these days.

Cyclist have little chance when even non commuting cyclists dont get it

I'd actually sit in the queue at lights etc to emphasise the point

If I commuted by bike I think I'd actually sit in the queue at lights etc to emphasise the point
If we opt out of being part of the traffic whenever it suits us, I don't see why "they" should respect our right to rejoin whenever we feel like it

If driving, would you sit behind a cyclist on the open road rather than overtake if you knew you were coming up to a set of traffic lights where the cyclist would get stuck behind you? What's the difference?

What's the difference?

If I overtook a cyclist who had another car (or cyclist) right in front of him I'd be a dickhead driver.

So if you overtake a cyclist who then gets stuck behind you at traffic lights you're a dickhead driver.

I ask again, what's the difference? Why the distinction between overtaking on the bit where the car can go faster and the bit where the cyclist can go faster?

Why the distinction between overtaking on the bit where the car can go faster and the bit where the cyclist can go faster?

If the cyclist remained in the line of traffic they couldn't go faster either as there'd be a stationary vehicle dead ahead

I suspect it's seen as simple queue jumping by drivers and few things make the british madder than that

If they miss a set of lights it'll cost them, what, maybe 2-3 minutes each time - on here we like to say they'll only catch up to the queue in front but it's not true; they will never catch the car that was in front of them and just got through the lights before they had to stop.

The futile raging of a motorist "trapped" at the lights, especially if it's "due" to the actions of somebody else, is fun but terrifying to witness. I see it every day, pretty much

What would a driver think of a cyclist who pulls themself out of a line of cars and then reinserts themself whenwver they like ?

Clearly you are applying a different status to one road user to another and you claim to be a cyclist.

the highway code is clear filtering [passing] is legal.

EDIT: seei as you posted it is not a race it is not about advantage it is about moving as fast as the conditions safely allow for your road vehicle. Sometimes this is greater for a cyclist than a car

I have no idea why you are now talking about "car drivers" in the hypothetical as if this is not your own view.

good luck finding a cyclist who does not filter in stationary traffic

But the driver is "queue jumping" by overtaking a cyclist who later catches him up. Why should the cyclist miss a phase of the lights and be held up for an extra 2-3 minutes just because some selfish drivers have overtaken him?

yes excellent point we would be going much faster if theses stationary cars were not impeding our progress b simply using the road at the same time as us the inconsiderate bastards.
Whats worse they had the cheek to overtake us to get to the queue earlier and then SLOW ME DOWN ...OUTRAGEOUS

Imagine a supermarket

All the basket only tills and the self checkouts are broken and there's one till available:

If you're standing at the checkout, in a line of people with trolleys, and I walk in front of your trolley then push in because I'm carrying a basket and more mobile, it's different to me, earlier, walking down the last aisle faster than you and reaching the checkout first

(I'm not saying this is my opinion but I think this is probably how drivers (who don't cycle) feel)

Just want to add something here.

Biggest peice of advice i have taken and really glad i took it was to "take primary" road position as much as i can during my rides.

It really does pay to hold up traffic and piss of drivers rather than them pushing you, ie the cyclist into the drainage part of the road.

Kidding aside though, if you do take primary it is safer, but you WILL get abused to hell from drivers, something which i think needs to be addressed maybe through the DVLA and their exams.

Example of why,

Going down a road with a school nearby thus lots of badly parked cars along the road, both sides.

As i coming up the road traffic coming towards me, with a parked car ahead, i have plenty of time to get ahead of parked car before car ahead comes near....

As i do my "safty check" over shoulder before going around the parked car another car wizzing from behind me overtakes, but fails to do so properly ,thus has to pull in front of me and cutt me up thus blocking me into the parked car. 👿

This is what pisses me off a lot, taking primary position and still people try to push you off the road into the drains..

(I'm not saying this is my opinion but I think this is probably how drivers (who don't cycle) feel)

Do you still ride 1ft away from parked cars too? Thats the door zone and [url=

don't want to ride there[/url]. If you do ride there then you'll be pissing off those drivers behind you. tricky eh?

The only problem with primary postion is no-one told the motorists, pretty bloody important step they missed out there, lots of drivers think you are just being a dick and trying to hold them up.

aye it is your opinion and I am not sure you can compare the supermarket to the open road. nonetheless lets run with it
Imagine when you try to overtake on the aisle [with a hand basket] you cannot because there is a large queue of trollies all blocking your way and you could easily pass them but you dont you just sit in the "queue" and wait your turn rather than use your mobility. Surely you are not one of those irritating types who has a hand baskets and squeezes through gaps my stationary trolley wont fit whilst I am stuck and impeded by other trolleys are you.
If someone with a trolley passes me [is gong faster than me] whilst i select which mung beans to buy [ always hard to find ] can i get annoyed because i just need too overtake then when they get stuck again- queue jumpers why can they just not wait
ETC
Passing a stationary car is nothing like queue jumping at a till and to try and compare the two is just poor thinking.

Just ride on the road and let us know what you do in a few years time.

sounds like it is your opinion, but whatever

I can see their view but, frankly, where I commute there are too few bikes to make a major difference. Dunno how I'd feel if I drove in London (then again, I hope I wouldn't be daft enough to try to drive in London if I lived & worked there)
I have never shouted at a cyclist, other than once (not really shouting at) to suggest he move out more from the kerb as drivers were taking the piss and endangering him

Those car drivers who think that are pretty bloody shortsighted then aren't they?

there is a large queue of trollies all blocking your way and you could easily pass them but you dont you just sit in the "queue" and wait your turn rather than use your mobility. Surely you are not one of those irritating types who has a hand baskets and squeezes through gaps my stationary trolley wont fit whilst I am stuck and impeded by other trolleys are you

Just ride on the road and let us know what you do in a few years time

If the gutter is full of potholes, crap and unsuitable for riding as cyclists (rightly) say, why would I have gone onto it. If it's fine to ride in the gutter near the lights, why not elsewhere ? It just devalues the argument it expediency can override it

If I commuted by bike

[s]If I was currently having a big poo the chair I'm sitting on would be very messy

Although I have pooed in the past, you'll be delighted to hear that I'm not doing so right now JY[/s]

Unfair - I actually hadn't seen your 1st response to me JY. I saw aracer's and off we went
Soz

Edited after ^^^^^^ edit

What do you mean you did not read me 😥

no probs

It is not illegal to filter and we are always part of the traffic and are not asking to rejoin it

What do you mean you did not read me