There's a bloke on my commute on a big adventure tourer motorcycle who has main headlight, and maybe 4 other spots positioned about the front.
Dazzles the shit out of me every day. Even when it's daylight. I'm in a van too...
It's horrible.
As a motorcyclist too, I understand the desire to be seen, but bloody nora!
It wouldn't be quite so bad if roads were actually flat, but unsurprisingly they are not, so every time there is a slight crest I get extra blinded by these LED searchlights pointing up even more.
I have a relatively low slung old car with just halogens, whilst also waiting for cataract surgery. It is absolutely horrid for me at the moment.
@lowey then get them adjusted.
You cannot in some cars! Our Leon was like this - full LED and you cannot turn them down, they are on a sensor for the cars attitude, they are electronically powered and you see them go 'up, down, settle in place' when you start the car. There was nothing to adjust them lower, or to adjust for the continent. I too found the level of them too high and we were flashed a couple of times.
Teslas have bad beam patterns, way too much dispersed light. Skoda Octavias before latest model were bad too.
Automatically switching dips and highs are hopeless in my car (2018 model year, had to switch them for manual mode) but on wifes car (2022) the adaptive headlights are excellent - curiously they are basically same car of different vintage.
If it is down to eyes could you explain why I am fine when a car of a similar age/type to mine is coming towards me vs a modern suv?
It's a combination of both for me. Newer cars and badly adjusted lights are certainly a factor but my eyesight is definitely not what it was at night even though my prescription remains unchanged. My problem is with contrast, oncoming lights seem to wash out everything around them. My car on pretty average H3 headlights on a dark road and there's no bother, throw in some oncoming headlights and it's a lot more fatiguing.
It wouldn’t be quite so bad if roads were actually flat, but unsurprisingly they are not, so every time there is a slight crest I get extra blinded by these LED searchlights pointing up even more.
exactly, the effect is worse with undulating roads--and worse still if they have defective line markings and no cat's eyes, I was driving from Brough to Kirkby Stephen at the weekend at night, an undulating A-road, but no continuous white line on the margin, plus virtually worn out and invisible white centre line markings on the road and no cat's eyes, coupled with the blindingly bright lights of the majority of oncoming vehicles I was pleased it was only a short distance I had to drive...
virtually worn out and invisible white centre line markings
I read something ages ago that claimed that painting centre lines on roads was one of the most cost effective public health interventions you could make in developing countries. It's a shame we can't manage to maintain them in the UK!
My Toyota has matrix led headlights, which seems to have stopped people flashing me compared to my old VW golf which had basic led lights that seemed to blind everyone even on dipped beam.
The system is smart enough that it switches off the beam if there's pedestrians and cyclists on the road to prevent blinding them. Same with road signs.
Thought it was going to be another useless gimmick when I first bought the car, but it's the best feature on it. Wouldn't buy another car without it. It appears to solve the problem that everyones going on about in this thread.
As a motorcyclist too, I understand the desire to be seen, but bloody nora!
Yes, my mate had (it got nicked last week) a BMW GS with all the added extra lights & yes the main lights are good enough on their own - the extras are really for off-road night riding, but GS riders... My own bike he referred to as having a candle in a chrome bowl.
I have matrix LEDs too, and they are brilliant except on dual carriageways where, as noted above, they fail to spot lorries, so on motorways and dual carriageways I turn them off.
The bit I really like is when they turn off the beam that is lighting up the offside verge about 2m before the oncoming car gets there.
A general google puts Xenon car headlights at 12,000 lumen per pair.
My toro is set for 2000 Lumen, though on the road i use it in flashing, and only on closed to traffic footpaths on full beam.
Outwith that any low powered bike light, flashing or nay are going to get lost amongst the myriad of car headlights and basically just blend into the background. So bikes to be seen effectively on the road need something that is glaringly bright
with auto-hold don’t give the option, the brake lights are on as a “safety feature”. Similarly if there’s an electronic handbrake the brake lights are on in traffic.
This annoys me as well, but on my VW if you pull the electronic handbrake on (by pulling the switch up even in auto hold) when stationary for more than a few moments it turns the brake lights off. It is habit now and the brakes release as normal as soon as you pull away.
There was nothing to adjust them lower, or to adjust for the continent.
That’s strange, on my Golf with LED dynamic lights you can adjust the height of the beam really simply with a hex head screw on the headlight unit bracket. If you don’t do too much it doesn’t affect the operation of the unit at all and does not require coding.
There was nothing to adjust them lower, or to adjust for the continent.
On VAG cars you usually do the LHD thing in the settings page on the radio. On my current car it's something like Settings > Car > Lighting > Driving on Left / Right
However if the car has nav built in it automatically adjusts this based on the location.
There is no reason that cars need their headlights on in street lit areas, the glare of headlights impedes vision for all road, pavement and cycle path users, side lights is all you need.
Cyclists not using StVZO style lights are just as bad, as are motorcycles with add on be seen LED lights - GS1200s seem notorious for this.
You cannot in some cars!
Seriously? How is that even legal?
A general google puts Xenon car headlights at 12,000 lumen per pair.
My toro is set for 2000 Lumen, though on the road i use it in flashing, and only on closed to traffic footpaths on full beam.
And what's the efficacy of that light? You're comparing a focused 2000 lumens with 12000 lumen with a wide throw. Apples and oranges.
Besides, why do you need 2000 lumens flashing at oncoming traffic? All that's doing is pissing people off, there's absolutely no need.
On VAG cars you usually do the LHD thing in the settings page on the radio. On my current car it’s something like Settings > Car > Lighting > Driving on Left / Right
However if the car has nav built in it automatically adjusts this based on the location.
Seat garage confirmed no adjustments.
Yep, qwerty is spot on on that. The amount I used to get flashed at for driving on sides was unbelievable, though. First thing I do in the family car (after turning start/stop off, obviously) is turn the lights on to sides, as the DRLs are obnoxious. Always use the handbrake at a standstill as well.
Related - the issue of EU regs requiring DRL's on front but not rear. SOOOO many drivers are not aware of this, as the same regs require dashboard illumination and so if you turn on sidelights the dash goes duller...
Our V70 had the opposite - front and rear DRL at all times and a dash which is dull generally, gets brighter on sidelights then dulls again for full night driving.
andybradFull Member
I absolutely hate them at the moment. I have astigmatism meaning things are a lot worse as well.
A huge proportion* of the population have astigmatism. My wife keeps telling me she's got it, as if it's something special or as if I haven't got it. (I have!)
* something like 50% of everyone who should be wearing glasses have astigmatism.
Only ask as neither my Mum nor any of her friends drive at night (youngest is late 70’s), while all complain about the same thing, they also suffer with the low sun too.
My dad (in his 80s) has given up driving because of the glare from lights - in his case the problems are caused by cataracts (which he's in the process of getting treatment for).
I had a weird one the other day at night, a motorbike approaching decked out with 4 front lights that looked, for a moment, more like an artic seen at a distance (ie two white lights high, two low), the spacing of the lights were a trick of the eye, til the bike passed and I realised, no, it’s not a HGV!
Years ago I took out a motorcyclist on a large roundabout in a similair situation.
I had just been hitting golf balls at the range at Pacasham. which is near one of the M25 junction 9 adjoining roundabouts.
It was pelting with rain so I opened my side window so I could see better, even though I was getting wet. I was relaxed from the golf so not in hurry or anything.
I thought I was seeing a car further away so I pulled out, but it turned out to a a motorbike where the main light was two small lights horizontally spaced. As I could distinguish the two separate lights I had made the faulty assumtion that it was a car at a distance.
Anyway he had a soft landing as he hit me a glancing blow - I had a diesel Fiat Uno so thin panels that crumpled in easily.
We left his bike there whilst I drove him back to Kingston and we visited the police station along the way.
Regarding the strong oncoming lights, my father taught me to direct my gaze at the kerb in front, basically where the dips were pointing, and use that as a guide.
Less easy when there is no kerb, but it still works.
I have fixed this a bit by polishing the headlight covers and fitting nightsearcher 2000s or something, but its only a marginal improvement. Probably need to change the wiring loom. Anyway, utter stupidity having such a disparity in allowable light output
I fitted one of the headlamp loom kits, with relays to my 944 with H4 bulbs. It uses the output from the alternator, so a higher voltage than at the end of the lighting loom.
Also, just taken delivery of a Connect with VWs infotainment system, the headlights were aimed at maximum range, in one of the many menus. So basically aimed at oncoming drivers faces and actually worse to drive by. It should be either load sensing of on a dial.
Naming the setting maximum range is misleading too. Some will think, set it to maximum I’ll see more.
Coincidentally I received an email from my optician today regarding the subject of "glare". As I'm due to have my regular eye test on Friday It's something we'll no doubt discuss...... but I suspect it's spendy. Whether it's any good I don't know.
Re. Dirty headlights: it's been mandatory for cars that have the bright Xenon / projector lights to have auto jet washers since about 2016, for exactly that reason. They auto clean every xx number of screen wiper uses, and / time based.
Really pees me off that one. I’d take a guess at some (but not all) auto cars being more faffy to put into neutral/handbrake on than manual?
Stopping is pretty much the same, but setting off is a lot more faff due to extra steps required and not being a very ergonomic procedure.
Prerequisites before the gear stick will do anything - pressing the brake pedal, and pressing a thumb button on the side of the stick.
If you mess it up and let the car roll off in neutral then it won't go into gear until you stop, which is an unexpected and dangerous thing to do just after setting off at a green light.
I soon gave up and now keep my foot on the brake.
So about as complicated as operating accelerator/clutch/handbrake at the same time in a manual?
I've manually set my Tesla lights much lower, it's clear the factory settings are far too high. OK I can't see as far on a country lane but it's SO much safer and more pleasant for other drivers.
I also drive a 1996 Toyota Hilux and the lights are completely overwhelmed by everything modern. It's got very silly how bright lights are now.
So about as complicated as operating accelerator/clutch/handbrake at the same time in a manual?
No. It's difficult to appreciate if you haven't done it (maybe you have and your car is better).
I did it for months when I first got my auto but it's just not designed to be ergonomically operated this way. The procedure, and the controls themselves.
Manual:
1. Left foot depress clutch, hand engage gear
2. Right foot press throttle, left foot release clutch, hand release handbrake (thumb on ratchet button)
Auto:
1. Right foot press brake (safety requirement), hand release handbrake (thumb on ratchet button)
2. Hand click shifter into drive (thumb on safety button which requires an awkward hand position)
3. Move right foot off brake to press throttle
The manual one is meant to be used like that; everything falls to hand and the steps flow into each other. The auto one (being just one more logical step) just doesn't in the same way, and if you try to do it fast and miss some critical step or do it in the wrong order you either get a safety warning bell or end up rolling forward in neutral and having to stop dangerously before you can put it in gear.
I persevered for months because I didn't want to be one of those inconsiderate people, but it was just a chore and occasional cause of danger. For context I am under 40 and have done many many hours on a wide range of cars/vans and industrial/agricultural vehicles.
If it was an electronic handbrake with auto release as on newer cars I think it would be more doable.
If you’re getting blinded by brake lights at traffic lights then I’d suggest getting an eye test. They’re 21w in red: perhaps 500lm? It’s hardly 6000lm of magicshine.
Autos aren’t designed to shift into park all the time while under way. You can get park pawl lock up where stress in the prop shaft prevents the park pawl from disengaging and you end up stuck in park. Particularly on slight inclines.
A Vw DSG or ZF HP8 auto effectively shifts into neutral at standstill with your foot on the brake. If you manually select the handbrake the box thinks you’re on a hill, shifts into 1st and engages the clutch pack on the DSG in false creep mode/ starts to drag the torque converter on the HP8. It essentially thinks you’re about to set off. This reduces efficiency as the engine is under load and increases wear on the dsg’s clutch pack. The HP8 wont give a fig but you can hear the engine working harder. It’ll also disable start stop. Leaving them alone to do their thing is how they’re meant to be operated.
@matt_outandabout a lot of VW’s LED lights are not bias beamed. They’re a flat beam like US headlights and so there’s no need to make any adjustment when driving abroad. Their matrix lights are biased, but by software which used gps data to decide which objects it might be helpful to pick out and when to extend the near side beam length, or indeed offside beam length if you’re on a dual carriageway and in lane 2. 3 or 4.
The other issue, in my eyes (literally & figuratively!) is that the headlights are now predominantly at a higher level to begin with due to crossover/SUVs etc. If you drive a non-raised up car, they seem to be directly in your eyeline.
I've just switched form driving an MPV with a higher driving position to a more 'Normal Estate with a lower sat driving position, and yep, now my eyeline is ~6" lower I'm noticing the death rays more.
I'm also noticing the odd bellend that seemingly leaves high beams on and completely relies on their posh matrix LEDs auto detecting oncoming cars, which they aren't always awesome at, and I thought had been banned(?)
Anyway driving a more 'normal' height vehicle again has me noticing the blinding lights more.
Yes, what hot_fiat says.
The park pawl thing doesn't like being stressed from even the 15cm the car will roll before it catches it. Hence my use of the handbrake.
And handbrake without manually selecting neutral on mine too leaves the engine and box trying to crawl fighting against the handbrake, so even if you don't care about mechanical sympathy you need to pull the handbrake on pretty tight.
And your post reminds me of the stop start silliness, I don't quite remember exactly but it might have been something like: switches off after you brake to a stop, comes back on when you release the brake after putting on the handbrake, stops again when you press the brake so you can engage drive, then starts again when you release the brake to move off.
It could be done better and some things are just peculiarities of specific models, but these systems don't like you fighting them.
Just purchased a newer Octavia with the silly bright headlights – sometimes get flashed by people who think I’m on main beam. Sorry.
Though anyone commuting by bike using their 1500+ lumen off road searchlight needs to have a think about how that affects other road/path users as well.
You might want to manually adjust your headlights down a bit. Lots of modern cars seem to have their low beam set so far out that it’s possible to drive on unlit roads without even needing to use high beams at all. I think this is to accommodate for lazy drivers who don’t know how or when to use high beams anymore.
I don't need to wear glasses legally for driving yet but I do have a pair and it certainly helps with glare when driving at night (especially if it's also raining) but appreciate that's not the answer for everyone.
Auto-dimming and matrix head lights with an active main beam feature are increasingly becoming a problem to - some react very fast to oncoming traffic (the former dipping the whole headlight, the latter dimming specific LEDs to cut direct light onto the oncoming vehicle) but it's still not fast enough in a lot of situation. Tesla's were notorious for their system being slow to react (but I think this has improved on the last couple of years). My own car has an active main beam function, tried it once driving at night on country roads I wasn't familiar with but had to disable it after a bit as it was obvious the odd oncoming car I met was getting a split second of main beam before it reacted.
Seriously? How is that even legal?
It isn't. Lights have to have facility to physically adjust the nominal position of the body (legally required up/down, not sure about left/right). There are parts of ECE R48 (i think) that still cover this.
There isn't however any easy way to adjust the self levelling, steering or matrix bit of the lights without mucking around with software/calibration values/tweaking sensors.
Auto:
1. Right foot press brake (safety requirement), hand release handbrake (thumb on ratchet button)
2. Hand click shifter into drive (thumb on safety button which requires an awkward hand position)
3. Move right foot off brake to press throttle
Yep, that's it. Identical to Mrs a11y's auto F32 430d - I very rarely drive it and daresay I'd get better with practice, but step 2 is the one I cock up. Usually because I suspect I'm either not engaging the button fully (terrible ergonomics as you say) or trying to rush the process quicker than the car allows.
Bonus point for thumb on ratchet button in step 1. Those folk that go click-click-click-click-click-click-click... argh!
I know a lot more cars are auto now but that’s not my problem, just show some respect to the people behind. It’s just a symptom of the general decline in driving standards.
I wish anyone with this view had a flag that said 'delicate' on it. Or maybe a strip across the top of the windscreen that showed other road users that you were intolerant.
I'd stop at junctions and keep my indicator on, just so you could be twice as offended, about half the time.
You seem to like the sensation of offence, so it would be a kindness.
I wish anyone with this view had a flag that said ‘delicate’ on it.
Perhaps a 'Rule #1' flag would balance things out, for everyone.
I checked my 2020 Skoda last night. There is a vertical wheel next to the headlamp switch which alters the angle of the light beam.
It's also an auto so now I use the foot brake all the time, the handbrake is only used with the engine off. Quite a difference for me as with a manual car I used the handbrake and neutral every time is stopped.
I wish anyone with this view had a flag that said ‘delicate’ on it. Or maybe a strip across the top of the windscreen that showed other road users that you were intolerant.
I’d stop at junctions and keep my indicator on, just so you could be twice as offended, about half the time.
You seem to like the sensation of offence, so it would be a kindness.
Throwing in my 2p here as both of those annoy me to varying degrees but I don't think I'm 'delicate'.
Brake lights: more annoying, often I'm sat behind someone with nuclear powered LEDs shining straight into my eyes and it's far too bright to be comfortable.
Indicators when clearly unnecessary (eg sitting in a queue in the "turn only" lane): extremely mild annoyance as it doesn't affect anyone in the slightest.
In both cases I think the aspect that gets to me most is that, bluntly, it's just simple laziness/thoughtlessness or being unaware of their surroundings. A little consideration for others vs just sitting there in your own bubble. I appreciate the brakes thing is probably mostly autos, but seriously it's not that much of a pain to shift into neutral and put the handbrake on, for the sake of being kind/thoughtful.
This is how Mercedes advertised their new headlights…. X-ray??
Indicators when clearly unnecessary (eg sitting in a queue in the “turn only” lane): extremely mild annoyance as it doesn’t affect anyone in the slightest
Most of the time, yes, but sometimes it's about alerting pedestrians (and even, incredibly, cyclists) to the fact that you're going to be going that way. It's not always obvious from the other side of a large junction for some people outside of a vehicle to understand road markings or signs from a different direction.
Brake lights in a queue can do-one though.
Most of the time, yes, but sometimes it’s about alerting pedestrians (and even, incredibly, cyclists) to the fact that you’re going to be going that way. It’s not always obvious from the other side of a large junction for some people outside of a vehicle to understand road markings or signs from a different direction.
Oh sure if you're at the front of the queue or in moving traffic it's a bit different but when they're sat 3 cars back from the red light in solid traffic, the indicator's 100% pointless. Dunno how they don't get driven mad by the ticking with it going for so long!
(See also: having the wipers going much faster than necessary, or not noticing that the rain stopped 5 minutes ago. A similar level of brainlessness that doesn't actually affect anyone else)
with nuclear powered LEDs
...and you claim not to be delicate?
It's a light. On a car.
You make it sound like you are heading towards the sun, clockwork orange style.
