I’m asking for advice on the former, not the latter.
Good - that wasn't clear from the wording of your OP.
And FWIW, you currently have the tallest horse.
The advantage of which is that I can see that most of the really shocking driving is not from the oldies! Presumably, insurers come to the same conclusions or covering folk in their 80's / 90's would be really hard.
Mum isn’t happy about him driving but she’s powerless to stop him in reality.
Is he insured?
The GP refused to get involved as if he is a part of one person losing their license then all the other OAP’s that he sees will avoid him so as to keep theirs.
How would they know?
@IHN
What car were they in when they crashed? If they're still adamant that they "need" a car, it might be worth investigating the option of a 10yr old thing which is more basic than a newer car.
A lot of new cars come with a lot of electronic assistance/gadgetry which confuses older people. My Mum has just got a S/H (2yr old) hybrid and most of the stuff in there is baffling to her. She gave my sister and her 2 small kids a lift somewhere recently and my sister was horrified at how shit my Mum's driving was. A lot of it was "caused" by her trying to use the various features on the car, not being used to it, not understanding it and being distracted by the various alerts it was giving her.
I drove a brand new DS7 SUV thing the other day and that was confusing enough to me and I'm used to a wide variety of cars.
An older car generally has push buttons, not touchscreens plus less of the distracting crap. Might be worth considering plus it'll be a lot cheaper to buy and possibly insure.
Mum isn’t happy about him driving but she’s powerless to stop him in reality.
Is he insured?
He arranges and pays for the insurance. They can only afford it with me and my sister as named drivers!
The GP refused to get involved as if he is a part of one person losing their license then all the other OAP’s that he sees will avoid him so as to keep theirs.
How would they know?
Never underestimate the power of the OAP gossip network in a rural location. Plus the process is the GP informs the DVLA, DVLA write to the license holder stating that their GP has flagged up a medical issue that prevents them from driving! Ridiculous system.
My dad had lots od TIAs (mini strokes), he once drove to the doctors to tell them he'd had a stroke (despite him living with us & me working from home) and got rushed to hospital, the only times the medical professions had anything to do with his driving it was to ask me to come and pick up his vehicle, not once did they intervene or report his driving to the dvla, in the end we managed to get his car declared as uneconomic to repair. He didn't need to drive, he lived with us had plenty of money for taxis and used a mobility scooter for local trips. Poly may not think it was my place to stop him driving but if the medical professionals weren't going to do it then who else is going to step in before a more serious accident happened?
It'll be interesting if I ever need to have this conversation with my dad.
I assume he'll know when the game is up of his own accord.
He's 80 next year, but is still an IAM motorbike instructor (owns a couple of 1000+cc sports bikes) and regularly does track days on those and occasionally in his hot hatch 😆
I guess his motorbike mates will be honest with him if he starts to get iffy.
My Dad's also had lots of TIAs. He has had cancer and a heart attack and gets confused. He's just bought a new-to-him Jaguar. It was in London and he lives in South Wales and was going to go to pick it up. Luckily my mum convinced him to get it delivered. He's still going to drive it locally though and nothing will stop him. It sounds like he's not alone. I'm really not sure what can be done but something needs to be.
The solution is regular retesting. For everyone.
My parents are coming round to the idea they need to stop. Mum does all the driving now anyway, and she doesn't enjoy it. They get the bus to local towns once or twice a week, have got taxis to medical appointments when necessary, but reluctant to give up the final freedom to go and do a big shop as and when.
I work a 4 day week to fit in around kids, now the kids are older it's increasingly to take my parents out somewhere so they get a change of scene. If we don't want people to drive when they are unable to so, then more regular buses and day trips are really needed to keep them occupied, or it becomes a rapid downward spiral.
They can only afford it with me and my sister as named drivers!
There's an obvious answer there, then.
Never underestimate the power of the OAP gossip network in a rural location.
Is this really such a risk that a GP would be scared to give a diagnosis?
https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/publications/how-raise-concerns-or-complaints-about-gp-practice
The solution is regular retesting. For everyone.
It is but it would be political suicide to even suggest it, let alone implement it. Ever since I did my 7.5t test (C1) where they presume you can already drive but assess whether you can handle a larger, heavier vehicle safely I've thought the system should work like this:
Pass your standard driving test.
5 years later you have an assessment to see if you are still safe behind the wheel. This is not the same as a driving test!
Then every 10 years you have the same.
You get 3 chances at the assessments, fail 3x and you lose your license and have to do a retest to get it back.
A driving license needs to be accepted for what it is, a privilege to have not a right.
There’s an obvious answer there, then.
He just adds us, we don't get involved in it at all so there's no way to stop it. It does come in handy though for talking my mum to her regular hospital checks. She's a heavy smoker and neither me or my sister allow smoking in our cars so we take hers for those trips.
Is this really such a risk that a GP would be scared to give a diagnosis?
It is when you are a co-owner of a successful GP practice in a predominately elderly area, easy to lose a lot of patients and therefore your business. They don't fail to give a diagnosis, they just leave the reporting to the DVLA to the patient after suggesting to them to do so. I don't agree with it at all but that's what happens.
He just adds us, we don’t get involved in it at all so there’s no way to stop it.
There really is. Just phone up the insurance company and report it.
My father, 77, has given up driving this year. I think it's been brought on by Covid, having not driven or done anything for 18 months he started venturing out again and got a bit freaked out by it and has decided not to drive anymore. I think he'd probably be fine for a few more years (has all his marbles etc), just needs a bit of practice to get used to it again. My mother stopped driving a few years ago, so neither now drive; however they live in centre of town, so not such a big problem..
Reading this thread is quite interesting and basically shows society for what it seems to be coming more every day, incredible selfish. Folk continuing to do something that causes a greater risk/harm to others and don't GAS - Brexit Britain in a nutshell.
FWIW my Dad realised himself that he wasn't really fit to drive in his late 70's, he never surrendered his licence, just stopped driving - my folks lived in the country, and a car is essential really. Mum drove, so it was fine.
Move forward a decade and Dad passed away a few years ago and we're in their place now and Mum is next door. She still drives (early 80's) and is totally capable, but doesn't drive at night (along with pretty much all her friends) and when she replaced her car 4 years ago I did persuade her to drop down a size (Aygo rather than Yaris).
I'm pretty sure she'll go the same way as Dad but we'll organise a taxi account for her - as rural it's not like we can just 'call a taxi' and there's loads available.
Following with interest as I see this conversation coming up with my mum and dad. Its been 18+ months since I've been driven by my dad and it was his sheer aggression behind the wheel that worried me.
I've done my IAM Advanced Driver assessment and remain a member, so I suggested my folks did IAM Mature Drive Assessments ( https://www.iamroadsmart.com/courses/mature-driver-review). That went down like a fart in a lift with my dad; he doesn't take criticism or feedback well, typical Scottish wee man mentality.
I wish they'd planned ahead instead of moving house about 5 years ago to well off the nearest bus route and shops (>1-mile walk with a hill). I jest about it now, but Mrs a11y and me are in our early-40s and a few years ago moved onto a main road through the village with all the essentials <5min walk away: Co-op, post office, backstreet car mechanic, a proper butchers, multiple takeaways, a pharmacy, hairdressers, bookies, and pub. On main bus route direct to nearest hospital and two nearest cities. No plans to move house ever again.
This time it was your parents and their car. Next time, it could be someone else. This happened near us last year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53269692
The driver died weeks before facing trial. All very sad.
We went through this about 18 months ago with my parents.
My dad drive into a gate once repaired , shortly after my mum drove into someone’s garden which resulted in the car being a write off.
At that point they did see sense and both gave up driving.
We now have “Dial a ride “ in place for both of them and it may be that your local council offers a similar service or taxi vouchers for the elderly.
My dad soon realised they were no worse off by using taxis and by using home shopping services .
Went through it with FIL. MIL had to stop driving after a stroke. FIL's driving was generally poor, but he bought a new Prius, and the number of dents it picked up were shocking. All low speed parking issues, despite sensors and cameras. He had COPD which in the end was lung cancer (heavy smoker) and unable to drive for a while due to being so poorly. He got better then was going out in the car with the oxygen tank attached to him - insurance issue- he didn't tell them. We had the issue of one of the daughter's encouraging him to drive, and the rest of us saying no, you can't with oxygen. His illness progressed which meant he couldn't get to the car, which was a blessing as he wasn't far off causing a serious accident.
After his death, we found loads of invoices from 'chips away' - he was a regular customer !
There really is. Just phone up the insurance company and report it.
Like I said above, it has come in handy rather than just driving mum's car on 3rd party only via my insurance. For the sake of family harmony we're working on getting dad to stop driving on his own, then we'll get him off the insurance.
I just sold my mums car for her today - dealers are desperate for cars and I got a lot more than I expected!!
She only started driving a 15 years ago when dad got Parkinsons, so she never really enjoyed it. Lockdown and moving to a new area meant she lost confidence. Now she lives in my village, which has good bus and train links on top of my taxi service.
