Pope Francis.
Quite possibly the best thing to happen to organised religion.
Thoughts on this and its potential repercussions?
Pretty sensible I'd have said. Evolution and Big Bang do fit pretty well with with what is in the bible depending how you interpret it. Actually "God" would fill in the blanks of our understanding quite well (pre big bang etc), which was always the case through history. The church always used to be made up of the most learned people and was the forefront of understanding. It's only recently, as the science has gotten a bit hard, that they seem to have drawn a line and said "that's it". Maybe if they focussed on the being nice to each other bit and let the scientists do the hard sums we might get somewhere.
As a catholic myself I can honestly say I admire his conviction in trying to drag the religion, kicking and screaming, into the 18th century. If he can continue the onward march of progress to embrace the last couple of centuries too, then I promise I'll stop regarding Father Ted as a documentary, and I might even go to church
Old news.
The big bang theory originated with a Catholic priest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
Good. He's doing [i]really[/i] well.
Elderly man in silly dress claims evolution is true and then contradicts himself by saying god did it.
TBF, nothing he is saying is actually new to the Church. None of the Orthodox, Catholic, nor mainstream Protestant communities think any differently.
Maybe if they focussed on the being nice to each other bit and let the scientists do the hard sums we might get somewhere.
That's what they do nowadays generally.
Elderly man in silly dress claims evolution is true and then contradicts himself by saying god did it.
Meanwhile elderly man on STW completely fails to understand the theory of evolution. Evolution describes how diverse species can evolve from a single original life form, but it says nothing about how that original life form came to be.
Don't patronise me sonny.
Still doesn't mean "god did it". Hence - it must have evolved.
Don't know why you still need to be told this.
Your attempts to defend the ridiculous used to be amusing, now you're just being a bore.
No offense.
but it says nothing about how that original life form came to be.
Wrong. It's even been re-created under lab conditions. Keep up.
Don't patronise me sonny.
I'm not patronising you, I'm correcting you 🙂 I'm not saying God did anything, or even that he exists, but it is perfectly possible that He did set evolution (or even simply the universe) in motion then let it take its course.
It's even been re-created under lab conditions.
Oh really? I suspect once again you're misinformed but if you can please find me a link that'd be great.
No I'm not going to provide you with a link. Do your own homework.
Lol
You're referring to the synthesis of amino acids under lab conditions based on hyopthesised primordial soup and a lightening strike, perhaps?
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Singletrackworld, the font of ALL knowledge 😆
The biggest surprise to me about religion is how it has conned so many people out of so much money over the centuries with various stories
That's what they do nowadays generally.
It worked well with his recent plenary council and their attitude to gays
Sometimes Molly I wonder of you have ever read the Bible or seen how they treat non believers [ or even just women]and sinners currently.
PS nice treatment of Whoppit in your first reply
Overall it amazes how religion can slowly over time start to denounce and reject its own book and yet still maintain its true.
It shows why facts wint knock their faith as they can happily maintain contradictory views - to be fair we all can to some degree not just the religious.
I always wonder if anybody at the rank of bishop or above actually believes in God and the afterlife. Or if they're all on the side of Father Dougall:
"Well, you know the way God made us all, right? And he's looking down at us from heaven and everything?
And then his son came down and saved everyone and all that?
And when we die we're all going to go to heaven?
Well, that's the bit I have trouble with."
Sometimes Molly I wonder of you have ever read the Bible or seen how they treat non believers [ or even just women]and sinners currently
Who's 'they'? It's not as if Christians are one homogeneous group, is it?
Overall it amazes how religion can slowly over time start to denounce and reject its own book and yet still maintain its true.
It's a little more complex than that. Which you'd know if you spoke to some religious people and took the time to listen to their point of view.
It's just the way of Christianity through the ages; adopt the prevailing theories/customs of a time/place so as to integrate (and hopefully convert the heathens).
Christmas and Easter are just 2 examples of existing festivals which were adopted by Christianity in this fashion.
Though the bible itself has some great wisdom, the centuries of exploitation by the church for material and political gain, especially whilst colonizing the new world, show huge levels of hipocrisy.
I always wonder if anybody at the rank of bishop or above actually believes in God and the afterlife
No one actually believes in that nonsense. If they did then they wouldn't cry at funerals.
It's impressively insightful. How does he know all of that?
Do your own homework.
As I'm sure you've asserted yourself on numerous occasions on religion threads, burden of proof lies with those making the claim.
Jive FFS man child abuse - is it only when the evidence exists that you dont mention it ?
Look who has met him ...just saying like
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It's just the way of Christianity through the ages; adopt the prevailing theories/customs of a time/place so as to integrate (and hopefully convert the heathens).
Well, no, it's the way of Christianity (and religion generally) to scream "no, you're all wrong, god did it" in a big loud voice until proof is so irrefutable that they look like idiots and have to retcon something convenient to fit.
Though the bible itself has some great wisdom
I bet I could find more 'wisdom' in a Jeffrey Archer novel.
Well, no, it's the way of Christianity (and religion generally) to scream "no, you're all wrong, god did it" in a big loud voice until proof is so irrefutable that they look like idiots and have to retcon something convenient to fit.
With respect, only some of them do that. The ones that quietly live and let live, you tend not to hear about them.
I bet I could find more 'wisdom' in a Jeffrey Archer novel.
I bet you couldn't.
I don`t understand how anyone with a brain could follow a religion
Junky, get a grip of yourself dude, next you'll be saying it's all part of the satanic illuminati control system. 🙄
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Of course, it might have more credence if Jimmy Savile was a high ranking Freemason. 😉
The ones that quietly live and let live, you tend not to hear about them.
Such as?
I'm talking about the organisations, not the individuals. Plenty of people live and let live, but "we're right and you're wrong" is the cornerstone of most religions I can think of offhand, is it not? That's ostensibly what 'faith' means; believe what we tell you and stop asking uncomfortable questions.
However they do, so bear in mind that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's rubbish. Not aimed at you directly, Edric!
Cougar - I can't remember the last time I heard a prominent Anglican leader telling me I'm wrong..?
So... Is the choirboys lament still ok? Or is that now verboten too?
I don`t understand how anyone with a brain could follow a religion
L. Ron Hubbard was a smart guy. I guess he didn't actually [i]follow[/i] a relgion but he had the right idea.
Look who has met him
That's incredibly tenuous. I'm having jacket spuds for tea, that doesn't make me a sodding potato.
I really don't see any point in beating up on people who are managing to avoid dogma and silliness.
This Pope has recently:
- recognised that gay people aren't utterly dreadful; and
- said that young earth creationists are completely wrong.
So far as all that goes, he's getting into line with normal people. I'm happy to applaud that, while still feeling that in many aspects of its doctrine and practice the church he leads has a long way to go if it wants to catch up with the humanity and decency of our broader culture.
Yeah, sorry, thread drift. I can't argue with any of that, BigDummy. Baby steps, but in the right direction.
I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in any more religious debates, because someone always trots out the "imaginary friend" thing and it becomes impossible to discuss. But:
1. I agree with everything molgrips has said in this thread.
2. the Greek Orthodox Church's teachings were already compatible with evolution, astrophysics, Big Bang theory, etc.
3. Good scientists are broad-minded - a lack of proof that God exists isn't the same as proof that he does not exist.
3. Good scientists are broad-minded - a lack of proof that [strike]God[/Strike] unicorns exists isn't the same as proof that he does not exist.
Christianity is such a broad spectrum that you can't possibly lump all Christian beliefs in together. Even [url= http://faithdebates.org.uk/blog/clergy-survey-parish-system-church-of-england/ ]17% of UK CofE priests don't believe in a personal god[/url].
Evolution and the big bang theory have been accepted by many modern Christian denominations.
The guy who first came up with the big bang theory was a Catholic and worried that it countered official teaching, so he went to see the Pope of the time who offered to make it official doctrine so that all Catholics had to accept it.
a lack of proof that God exists isn't the same as proof that he does not exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russel l's_teapot
Most scientists would never claim that god doesn't exist, as that's not how science works. It's not possible to prove a negative in this manner.
3. Good scientists are broad-minded - a lack of proof that God exists isn't the same as proof that he does not exist.
Absolutely true, but in the absence of any evidence that god exists I'm going to carry on behaving as if he doesn't.
in the absence of any evidence that god exists I'm going to carry on behaving as if he doesn't.
Fine, but this is not a thread about you 🙂
It's all about me.
Nothing to see here:
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3. Good scientists are broad-minded - a lack of proof that God exists isn't the same as proof that he does not exist.
We could devise an experiment to test claimed aspects of a god's existence.
Creation power claims were previously made for various gods but, as the Pope acknowledges, god is shown to be unnecessary for the processes of creation and evolution.
Many religions claim that their god answers prayers and the effectiveness of these can be, [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercessory_prayer ]and have been[/url], tested.
