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I still manage to avoid Amazon for most purchases through choice. Hate their app and it’s search function which seems to always deliver far east/fake cr@p with no obvious way to filter. If I want say an eagle cassette why serve up countless no-name cheapo chinese cheap cassettes ahead of bone-fide stuff that ACTUALLY MATCHES MY SEARCH TERMS (rant ends).
It’s rarely much cheaper and point of principle I’d rather buy from elsewhere anyway. Each to their own but I’ll spread my spending, Prime strikes me as an unfortunately effective way of locking folk into Amazon as the source of all things. At the expense of other retailers, local or online.
Prime throws up some weird anomalies
I buy a lot of picture frames for my prints and if I buy them direct off my preferred source then I still have to pay postage.
If I order them from the same place, via Amazon, with Prime I pay no postage. And it’s delivered the next day instead of days later
So it pays for itself multiple times over before I’ve even ordered anything else other than picture frames or even looked at the telly
An absolute no-brainer (even though I am aware I’m financing somebody worse than Hitler to launch giant cock and balls into space
Prime strikes me as an unfortunately effective way of locking folk into Amazon as the source for all things
You’ve got it. Prime is fundamentally a marketing tactic. You believe that you're paying for delivery and content, but it’s real value and why Amazon offer it is to subconsciously make you want to buy item x,y and z from Amazon not elsewhere…..because you have to get use and “value” from your subscription.
Yeah, hence the words “for the first year”. I mean, what does your post even mean?
I get more and more baffled by the responses on here.
Its simple enough. Your clever comment about people not checking annual dd fails because the price doesnt normally increase in the second year. Its been 79.99 every year (vs 7.99 monthly).
The "year two" just means "any renewal after September" where it would be 8.99 monthly.
The value of the annual payment has decreased but its still better than monthly even in "year two".
An Italian acquaintance of mine is moaning it’s gone up to €5 per month.
Strange... Currently 7.99€/month, increasing to 8.99€. Not sure what German amazon offers over Italian amazon. Everything is dubbed. Its still 90% guff filler.
No one is made to pay for amazon. Its a luxury tax for those that can afford it. VAT, and TV licence are regressive taxes paid proportionally by those that generally can't afford amazon or Netflix.
Is anyone ever surprised big corps who stamp out/buy up competition, then go on to whip the established customer base for more money, more often!?!
is it? Are you looking at things with Prime/next day delivery? The only cheaper ones I can see are from Marketplace sellers with dodgy names and delivery times of 1-2 weeks!
Just checked, using Morrisons the 6 pack of beans are £5.34, direct from Amazon £4.50 plus a 10% voucher. £4.05.
TV licence are regressive taxes paid proportionally by those that generally can’t afford amazon or Netflix.
Really? Last I checked a TV licence was about £112 a year. (edit: bugger me it's £159 now!) So, er, you were saying?
Is anyone ever surprised big corps who stamp out/buy up competition, then go on to whip the established customer base for more money, more often!?!
Nope. Well, I'm not. Clearly some are.
Amazon absolutely sucks ass if you don't know what you are specifically looking for (down to exact model names) . Their tick boxes are worse than ebay for narrowing stuff down, it's clearly designed to sell you what THEY want you to buy, not the other way around. If you went into an actual shop and a salesman tried that nonsense you would tell them to do one but because it saves you time that seemingly makes it okay.
The multi subscription nonsense is a pain in the hole too. Kindle prime or not? Prime video or not? Twitch Prime? Oh that's hidden away.
Quite honestly I could lose it tomorrow and not lose any sleep. I hate buying off them truth be told, I'll go out my way not to but sometimes you can't avoid it (beyond not buying something at all). The wastage from their operations is staggering and a horrific indictment of the consumer culture they have carefully curated.
£12 is a small price to pay for bigger willy rockets and some Tolkien.
The wastage from their operations is staggering and a horrific indictment of the consumer culture they have carefully curated.
That I doubt very much. It might be a large figure in absolute terms, but as a % of turnover I would expect it to be less than any other commercial retail operation.
For all their sins, they are ruthlessly efficient - if someone can figure out a way of saving 0.01 pence per order, they'll implement it.
It is as close as mankind has got to the perfect commercial enterprise.
That I doubt very much. It might be a large figure in absolute terms, but as a % of turnover I would expect it to be less than any other commercial retail operation.
I beg to differ.
Ruthlessly efficient, yes, but only when it comes to their own pockets.
I beg to differ.
Yes, it's a lot in absolute terms what what % is it of total turnover and how does that compare to the industry norm?
Yes, it’s a lot in absolute terms what what % is it of total turnover and how does that compare to the industry norm?
Genuine question - who would you compare them to to establish a benchmark? They ARE the industry norm, surely?
Genuine question – who would you compare them to to establish a benchmark?
My point was really that waste in retail is nothing new, clothing retailers burn or tip 100s tons of clothes every year, supermarkets ditch 100s tons of food etc. Lots of returns don't get resold as they are soiled or it's just not cost effective to repackage them etc.
If you have a retail behemoth the size of Amazon, even if their wastage % is lower than the norm, it's still a vast amount in absolute terms.
Mail order is also a lossy business as people order things to try, so you already have a high return rate baked in to the process.
Exactly, unless anyone knows of someone with a similar business model.
I don't think it's worth discussing anyway, I think any business that thinks landfilling perfectly usable, never mind brand new goods has no place in this century.
I think any business that thinks landfilling perfectly usable, never mind brand new goods has no place in this century.
That's pretty much all businesses, it's just they're not called Amazon, so it doesn't make the news....
When we last moved office, we had tons of perfectly good stuff just end up in skips.....
I won't be renewing mine in January when my current subscription runs out. Hardy buy anything or watch much. Only really renewed it last time for Picard but that was utter shite.
See, now, this (and other similar posts) puzzles me:
as someone who lives in a small town and actually has to go to work every day sometimes there’s no realistic alternative.
I live in a small town, I go to work each day, I have absolutely no need for Amazon. My avoidance of them is, admittedly, partly driven by principle, but even without that I could perfectly happily live my life without ever using their services. How/why do people find them essential?
Amazon absolutely sucks ass if you don’t know what you are specifically looking for (down to exact model names) . Their tick boxes are worse than ebay for narrowing stuff down, it’s clearly designed to sell you what THEY want you to buy, not the other way around.
This one time I tried to order four candles from Amazon and you won't believe what turned up. Would never happen in a small family-run shop.
It is kinda funny when you search for a specific obscure book and the first page of results is GoT/celebrity memoir/how to cook photogenically.
I live in a small town, I go to work each day, I have absolutely no need for Amazon. My avoidance of them is, admittedly, partly driven by principle, but even without that I could perfectly happily live my life without ever using their services. How/why do people find them essential?
A lot of it is down to convenience. You can get whatever stuff you want delivered to an amazon locker but the hardware shop/book shop/whatever only opens between 9 and 4, maybe earlier. People want stuff now, not when they can get around to it. Sadly the high street has never cottoned on to this and still insists on opening hours that don't work for most of the working population.
There is also this perception that Amazon is cheaper. It's usually not (some things are, usually the stuff you could pick up in a traditional indoor market or the like) but because folk don't have the patience to just pick stuff up when they can get to it, Amazon it is.
Sadly the high street has never cottoned on to this and still insists on opening hours that don’t work for most of the working population.
Most high streets are redundant for this type of shopping, and have been for years. Most people shop in retail parks which are always open outside traditional hours.
Amazon is convenient, yes, but nowadays convenience means not having to leave your sofa to do your shopping.
A lot of it is down to convenience. You can get whatever stuff you want delivered to an amazon locker but the hardware shop/book shop/whatever only opens between 9 and 4, maybe earlier. People want stuff now, not when they can get around to it. Sadly the high street has never cottoned on to this and still insists on opening hours that don’t work for most of the working population.
But all the same stuff that can be bought on Amazon can be bought online from other places, in particular eBay. And with eBay there's very probably an actual high street shop at the other end, who have cottoned on to what they need to do.
You’ve got it. Prime is fundamentally a marketing tactic. You believe that you’re paying for delivery and content, but it’s real value and why Amazon offer it is to subconsciously make you want to buy item x,y and z from Amazon not elsewhere…..because you have to get use and “value” from your subscription.
So this comment intrigued me as, despite disliking many things about Amazon, I am a fairly big user.
Just looked at past months purchases and there are about a dozen items where I could have got them for a similar price, but would have had to pay postage or gone to town to find and pick up so in reality all a little cheaper and convenient.
A few items were a touch more expensive from Amazon but had proved difficult to find elsewhere, one I wanted urgently, rung some shops, called in at 2 others and no luck. Got next day delivery from Amazon which wasn't ideal but better than the ' we can order you one in, it'll come in a bulk delivery when our order to them is big enough'.
Other things definitely saved a fair bit, especially when bought in bulk then the unit price is great.
Sure Maximum Protection Antiperspirant: Amazon £37 for 12, Tesco/Sainsburys/Morrisons £5 each so £60 for 12.
Roundup Weedkiller 5 Litre - Amazon £13.99, Wickes £29.50, Local Garden Centre click and collect £33.99
Electric Shaver - Amazon £51.99, Argos £110.00, some company I've never heard of on Google £79.99 - this was one of their 'One Day Deal' things so got lucky with this.
Printer Ink - Amazon £34.00, Other online around £44.00
Forthglade Dogfood - Amazon £31.40 for 24, Wilko £34.80 plus £5.00 delivery or drive into town to collect.
Plus 2 deliveries of Amazon Fresh that arrived within 4 hours over the week we had Covid.
I also often get my Prime orders sent to the Amazon Lockers at the supermarket I frequent which is on the way home from work.
Occasionally we do watch stuff on there too and I get free kindle books on Prime reads which is good.
So it seems to me I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face leaving them.
What are these Amazon lockers and retail parks of which you speak?
So it seems to me I’d be cutting off my nose to spite my face leaving them.
Or taking a stand against a tax-dodging, union-crushing, willy-rocket building sociopath, whichever way you want to look at it.
Or taking a stand against a tax-dodging, union-crushing, willy-rocket building sociopath, whichever way you want to look at it.
I used to have significant moral standards - they caused me no small amount of angst.
What are these Amazon lockers and retail parks of which you speak?
Yeah, there's a place and many good reasons for online shopping, but there's something wrong when people are buying endless tat, to be delivered in individual parcels, in separate van runs, and sod the environmental costs of it all. Wherever they live.
Yeah, there’s a place and many good reasons for online shopping, but there’s something wrong when people are buying endless tat, to be delivered in individual parcels, in separate van runs, and sod the environmental costs of it all. Wherever they live.
But at scale, when one Amazon van makes 10+ deliveries per street - the CO2 cost per delivery is probably less than those 10 people driving to the nearest retail park and walking into John Lewis etc and making 10 purchases.
The CO2 costs are pretty closely tied to the £ cost per delivery and one thing Amazon has seen from Day 1 is that the more it scales, the lower the costs per transaction fall (and hence CO2).
How/why do people find them essential?
Not essential, but incredibly convenient. Personal recent example - I wanted a paddling pool cover (as mentioned earlier in this post). It's not the sort of thing you can buy easily in a local/town centre shop. I could go into town and walk around looking for one that would take considerable time (and probably be unsuccessful) or I could spend time ringing around shops to see if they stock the item only to find out they don't. Or I could use Amazon and get the item ordered in minutes (and cost less into the bargain). So - very convenient.
But at scale, when one Amazon van makes 10+ deliveries per street – the CO2 cost per delivery is probably less than those 10 people driving to the nearest retail park and walking into John Lewis etc and making 10 purchases
It's a 50-60 mile round trip for me to get to a decent range of shops in Inverness. They might have what I want but probably not, so that might mean a second trip to pick up something thay've had to order for me. Or, I get an alert from Amazon when my parcel is 8 stops away. That means it's in the same small housing estate. It's not hard to see which has the less environmental impact.
I tend to use it for helping out my in-laws, they struggle with tech and will often get asked if I could get items for them. They pay me back about every 6 months so its like interest free shopping for them 😮
I was on monthly Prime but have just swapped it to yearly so saved a bit for the next year.
I do use Amazon music a fair bit.
But at scale, when one Amazon van makes 10+ deliveries per street – the CO2 cost per delivery is probably less than those 10 people driving to the nearest retail park and walking into John Lewis etc and making 10 purchases.
That's a complete guestimate though, isn't it? 😀
That’s a complete guestimate though, isn’t it?
Not really.
In our petro dependent economy the cost of everything correlates with the cost of oil which is where CO2 comes from. Not exactly, but to a 1st order approximation.
If company A can deliver a service cheaper than company B at scale (and without subsidisation) then the odds are company A has a lower CO2 footprint per service than company B.
Amazon is excellent at building scale and hammering the cost out of every transaction - that is why it is so successful. Delivering a service at a lower cost almost certainly means a lower CO2 footprint as well.
Delivering one off to a house is the arse end of nowhere, obs not very cost effective - but at my old office, we had a van empty it's entire contents to the office in one go every day. In our street (centre of Cambridge), Amazon and Hermes etc drop off multiple parcels down the street every day and then only drive 100 yards to the next street for a whole load more drop offs.
In our street (centre of Cambridge), Amazon and Hermes etc drop off multiple parcels down the street every day and then only drive 100 yards to the next street for a whole load more drop offs.
This is a comparatively recent thing though - really accelerating since Covid. Amazon haven't changed their business model, they've just managed to get more customers to buy into it and make it more cost effective. And I'm yet to be convinced that so much impulse purchasing of tat is good for the environment in any way. (That's the angle I'm approaching it from.)
Funny how it's always "tat" when it's something that someone else wants 🤣
And I’m yet to be convinced that so much impulse purchasing of tat is good for the environment in any way.
Why do you assume that Amazon purchases are impulse purchases of tat?
Most high streets are redundant for this type of shopping, and have been for years.
High Street in the general sense. And is it redundant because retailers are unable or unwilling to accommodate your average 9-5 worker? Would it really kill small businesses to open a couple of hours later and shut a couple later?
As for ebay, my nearest Argos is an hours round trip away and in any case is dependent on them actually allowing the item to be delivered or actually receiving it in the first place. I'm genuinely surprised nobody has ever opened a dedicated parcel receiver shop especially for the likes of small islands or remote communities that pay a premium per delivery.
As for increased tat, yes. Its easy, quick and convenient. A lot of the stuff they sell is landfill fodder, even the quality stuff. BTW nobody has given any evidence of these other retailers that skip perfectly sellable items, is that because the likes of TK Maxx and other outlet shops exist and its THEIR stock rather than a third party that can't afford to have it returned? Besides the print industry, which the proprietors of this site have kicked back against (good on them) I can't think of anyone else that does this.
Just done a Morrison's/Amazon shop on line. Save 10% through my bank too. We're away this weekend, and I've got fuel to get during my lunch break, so no time to go to the supermarket. It's all being delivered within 2 hours of ordering. No delivery charge over £40. It's just handy. The goods are picked by a member of Morrison's staff in your local store, so it's still local employees and a local delivery driver - usually comes in a private car and not an Amazon van.
I hate shopping in shops with a passion (generally the idiots wandering aimlessly in front) - I'm a 'go in and get what I need', don't do browsing - even bike shops !
Yes, it’s a lot in absolute terms what what % is it of total turnover and how does that compare to the industry norm?
Genuine question – who would you compare them to to establish a benchmark? They ARE the industry norm, surely?
Interesting article in the New York Times popped up on my FB feed this morning answering this very question!
Probably pay-walled, but I'll quote some interesting bits below.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/30/business/retail-returns-liquidation.html
The numbers for returns are just immense - this if for the USA:
In 2021, shoppers returned an average of 16.6 percent of their purchases, up from 10.6 percent in 2020 and more than double the rate in 2019, according to an analysis by the National Retail Federation, a trade group, and Appriss Retail, a software and analytics firm.
Last year’s returns, which retailers are not always able to resell themselves, totaled $761 billion in lost sales. That, the retail federation noted, is more than the annual budget for the U.S. Department of Defense.
The National Retail Federation and Appriss Retail calculate that more than 10 percent of returns last year involved fraud, including people wearing clothing and then sending it back or stealing goods from stores and returning them with fake receipts. But more fundamentally, industry analysts say the increasing returns reflect consumer expectations that everything can be taken back.
“It’s getting worse and worse,” Mr. Johnston said.
Some of the returns and excess inventory will be donated to charities or returned to the manufacturers. Others get recycled, buried in landfills or burned in incinerators that generate electricity.