[Closed] Have we done the old fool on the M1 yet?

3, 2, 1 before someone piles in with actuarial stuff about 17yr olds driving like loons being a great menace....

Stoner +1

This almost looks like click-bait....

Anyway, not just old people, compulsory 10 year re-testing for all imo. Would bet there would be an increase in unlicensed drivers though

Good point OP, but badly made given today's circumstances. Two people are dead.

But everyone should be retested every 5-10 years, and over 75(?) annually, or at least a medical assessment.

'Old fool' is a bit harsh OP. The problem here is the old chestnut about our lax regulatory scheme around driving in general, allowing individuals to be the only judge of their driving ability (whether 17, 77 or just some middle-aged bloke with anger management issues...

100% agree with you on reassessment - at drivers' expense. Whilst we're at it of course, let's not make this age-dependent. Every 5 years at our own expense - re-test and pay for additional lessons if you fail.

It'll reduce cost on the NHS from car crashes and increase employment opportunities for driving instructors so there's a good economic argument too 🙂

I wonder if it's the same old chap I reported to the DVLA when I worked in Nottingham for doing a U turn on the A610 and coming back down the on slip while I was going up it on a blue run. Probably, given that they ignore most police unfit to drive referrals*

*based on the ones I've done or know about.

RIP both drivers. People lost some family members, can we change the title please?

That's not to say I dont think 80+ yr olds should have a such an easy ride to retain their licences. That my 88yr old M-in-Law still drives in SE London (watch out Beckenham) is a shaft of idocy I'll never understand

All digger tickets etc have an expiry with a requirement for re-assessment can't see why cars are different. Also having recently been on a speed awareness course (which was pretty good actually) if you get done for a minor driving offence you should get a tracker fitted to your car for lenght of time to make sure the lessons bed in.

Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right. I'm very much of the opinion that we should implement a scheme requiring 10 year interval re-testing at all ages, not just the elderly.

The driving environment has changed so much, even in the last 10 years - it's almost unrecognisable from 20 years ago! Everyone should have to prove they are capable of driving safely in the current environment.

Rachel

edit - and yes, I have had a test in the last two years as I did my A-licence for the motorbike

That's not to say I dont think 80+ yr olds should have a such an easy ride to retain their licences. That my 88yr old M-in-Law still drives in SE London (watch out Beckenham) is a shaft of idocy I'll never understand

No disrespect to your MiL but the standards of driving in Beckenham are so low, I doubt she'll stand out!

Move her to Southall, then she will stand out as exemplary

driving is a god given right, its sad that some people are dead but hey...its the cost society is willing to pay for the freedom of a car.
nothing will change

This is almost a daily occurance here in Germany.Seems everyday there is a warning on the radio that someone is driving the wrong way on the Aotobahn in the region. They even have a name for the person doing it 'Geisterfahrer' or ghost driver. Only a few weeks ago a family were killed just outside the city on the Autobahn here. Very sad and in alot of cases very preventable ie testing people over 65.

[quote=allthegear ]The driving environment has changed so much, even in the last 10 years - it's almost unrecognisable from 20 years ago! Everyone should have to prove they are capable of driving safely in the current environment.

I wouldn't argue against regular retesting, just against the premise that repeating the standard driving test would prove anything about whether somebody is capable of driving safely.

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[i]But everyone should be retested every 5-10 years, and over 75(?) annually, or at least a medical assessment. [/i]

And have you any thought to the cost of this - are YOU prepared to spend £500 every 5 years or so?

Or do you not drive and/or live someone where you don't have to?

All to save a few accidents - based on us been pretty much the safest place to drive (of any size), in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Driving tests cost £23+£45

aracer - there are too many people out there that can pass a test but not drive safely, I will agree with you on that. What I hope, though, by requiring regular retests is that people will at least have 'the fear' that the licence may be revoked if they don't at least reflect upon their driving skills on occasion. This might not be perfect but it is better than the current situation.

[quote=b r ]based on us been pretty much the safest place to drive (of any size), in the world.

So we kill a few less people than other countries which are even shittier than us?

To be fair (and I do see an argument for periodic retesting), the amount of deaths on UK roads in these circumstances are really very low so to bring in new legislation to cover this type of incident seems a bit of an over-reaction.

From what I've seen of late some people shouldn't have passed in the first place let alone a retest.
As for the van in the accident I believe it's the passenger who died and the driver is still critical which may make it 3.
Rip to all involved even he who had managed to get to 80 odd and then die so wastefully.

Compulsory tracking devices in all cars would likely do more to improve the standard of driving.

I have little doubt that my driving has improved significantly in the 40 or so years I've held a licence.

Driving tests cost £23+£45

Assuming you don't need any lessons to get back up to scratch.

I'm pretty sure I'd fail if I sat my test again tomorrow.

I'm not sure that compulsory re-testing is the answer (as people have pointed out above, it would be a bit of a knee jerk reaction), but there are significant issues with the way poor driving standards are policed and punished in this country. I'm still amazed that people can get away with having more than 12 points on a licence - with the reason being they need to drive for their work, well shouldn't that have influenced their behaviour after they got the first 9 points?

I wouldn't argue against regular retesting, just against the premise that repeating the standard driving test would prove anything about whether somebody is capable of driving safely.

It's true, passing the test isn't proof someone is a good driver, but at least it would weed out the (no offence meant) doddery and semi-blind - those who are simply physically unable to drive safely. Even though that leaves those that can drive safely but choose not to it at least removes some of the unsafe drivers.

so after seeing my wifes grandads driving deteriorate to the point where i was about to say something (eventually FiL manned up and had the conversation with grandad) i think what will i do closer to home. We are all responsible - when my parents get doddery, will i say something? and potentially upset them. Yes i bloody will and i don't really care if the old man gets the hump frankly, as if he did collect someone i'd feel bad about it. And also, when i'm an old giffer, when someone younger tells me it's time to stop driving i will stop (you heard it here first). I have also had the conversation about who is going to speak to FiL when he gets doddery too. imo this is too important to be left to the individual.

re grandads driving, overnight his engine warming up and driving off routine changed to:
1. clamp right foot on throttle fully
2. turn key
3. sit there for several minutes with the engine wailing away
4. depress clutch, engage first gear
5. using the clutch as the forward speed modulating device, drive off.

Assuming you don't need any lessons to get back up to scratch.

I'm pretty sure I'd fail if I sat my test again tomorrow.

many people would. a good reason to make people re-do it every now and again, IMO!

I did my test last year, and I see so, so many things on the road that would fail people a test if they were driving under test conditions; inability to use lanes on roundabouts, not indicating, blah blah blah. Some of it is probably 'deliberate' (i.e. people who know the rules full well and just don't give a crap), but i think a lot it is stuff that people have forgotten or that didn't even exist when they took their test in 1976. So a refresher would probably be useful to those people and those around them.

it would make roads safer for cyclists too, which is no doubt a good thing.

and frankly, 10 lessons plus a test would be about £30 a year if it was to be every ten years. Most car owners spend more than that on screenwash.

It wouldn't be beyond the examiner to assess general competance rather than the specific skills. Everyone will try to drive better than they normally do, the idiots will still stand out.

Taking some people off the road would have a huge impact on general congestion levels and hopefully relax everyone else a little.

Maybe start with mini cab drivers, they drive professionally so should welcome the validation of their competence.

Doesn't need to be a full retest imo, a simple eyesight and reaction time test would help.

Oh and compulsory eye tests every two years, the number of people who drive without sight correction is appalling.

Edit, not fast enough.

agree with the eyetest thing. when i got my acu licence i had to have eye tests, and when you are racing no one is coming the other way.

Half a million uninsured drivers, why does anyone think that people will submit to a 5 yearly retest? How would police enforce it?

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I think what some people are saying is....
"it'll be expensive to put measure in place to stop this (like regular retests) and if only a few people get killed a year its okay"

How about anyone that agrees offers up their kids/wife/parents to the gods of motoring...anyone.......anyone???

What percentage of road accidents might be prevented by more regular eyesight and reaction testing? Are young, male drivers predominently blind and sluggish?

At 94 my granddad was still driving. He definitely shouldn't have been. Yes, he drove everywhere at 20mph but that can be enough. His logic was that they kept passing him fit so he must be ok. His car was covered in small dents and scrapes as he couldn't judge parking. We eventually persuaded him to stop but by then it was well over 5 years too late. The decision should have been taken out of his hands with much more stringent testing.

RIP the people in the OP. +1 for compulsory retests - I spend quite a bit of time on the roads these days and see quite a lot of "poor" driving. Some of it's mine!

I reckon new drivers should be issued licenses on the basis of a 5 year compulsory re-test/eye check. Problem is, what about those driving on an EU ticket? Or from other parts of the world?

They're all meant to apply for a licence in the UK I think within 1 year of living here, but they don't... Even people from Isle of Man simply bring their cars and licence over and nothing ever seems to get checked.

So - more funding for traffic rozzers too, please.

My 95 year old Gran is still driving and would be a bit stuck if she couldn't as lives in a rural spot though only a couple of miles from some shops. So she drives back and forth daily but also longer trips. Had a crash last year but apparently not her fault. Asked who says she's ok to drive - suggested her doctor but apparently no comment made by him.

She's better than my wife though.

Given how slowly my wife's grandad moves about their house, how much he can't hear anything, and how he tends to fall asleep at a moments notice, I was entirely unsurprised to hear how their car was in the garage following an accident in a car park.

They probably shouldn't be driving, but I can't say anything and I'm 95% sure my MiL/FiL won't as then all ferrying duties will fall to them.

I took my motorcycle licence a couple years ago. Part of me thought taking the theory part a bit ridiculous. However having gone through it I think it was worthwhile and agree it's necessary (hey, things have changed since the 80's, the last time I read the Highway Code!). Doing a DAS meant I had a couple of days training (the other guy on it was adding to his car licence too) that also transferred to the car. I honestly think it's made me a better driver (the Loon has said as much) it's certainly slowed me down and increased my hazard perception (it's amazing how complacent I'd been regards red triangle warning traffic signs).

I'm not sure retesting is the answer, continued training should be mandatory though. Refresher course after 5 years then every 10 perhaps? Obviously there would need to be some sort of mechanism to *catch* people who shouldn't be driving! recommendation of retest if person falls below required standard?

Driverless cars can't come soon enough,the population is aging and we all want to keep our independence and mobility and public transport provision is patchy.

"retesting" doesn't have to mean an exact resit of the driving test- though, a lot of the opposition to that seems to be around "I couldn't pass a driving test today" which is pretty worrying when you think about it, how can you be content that your driving is below the minimum entry standard? There's elements I'd want to get back up to speed, some of the maneouvres but if you can't get it together and drive to test standard with a little notice, get off the road, surely?

But an "existing driver" test could be a simple ridealong competence test, like we do for work before you can use company vehicles, and that's a different kettle of fish.

The system as it is doesn't really seem to work. I'm a diabetic on insulin so every 3 years I need a medical extension, it's not perfect but it kind of works... But as a healthy diabetic I'm far less a risk tham frinstance my dad, who was bloody nearly blind and had voluntarily stopped driving long before anyone decided to take away his licence.

Maybe mandatory gps equipped dash cams would make people think about the standard of their driving?

[quote=wwaswas ]Maybe mandatory gps equipped dash cams would make people think about the standard of their driving?

Hopefully insurance companies might help bring that about by offering a discount for drivers using one - it's certainly something I'd be looking into if I was in charge of risk assessment at an insurance company.