[i]Need to sell all sorts to clean this mess up. [/i]
really so how does this in any way prevent another global financial meltdown, by actually reducing our knowledgebase?
I wish I could agree but it didn't seem to have any effect on the results of the Scottish Parliament elections in the 2003 or 2007 elections 🙁This is not a compromise it is a reversial of stated policy as it was over the economy. They could have held frin over their beliefs and principles in asort of principled manner instead of propping up /enabling a Tory govt to do what the libs said they would not do and what they di dnot stand for...shamefull and they will pay an electoral price for this IMHO.
even silly degrees are all good, more students= more money = better facilities
Why do more students mean more money when it's all coming from the same budget? Unless you're suggesting the students pay fees (which you seem to be against) or the publicly funded budget expands in proportion to the number of students - when the same amount of money could mean even better facilities with less students. I don't see how the people with silly degrees help with the need for skills in important areas.
The important question is who exactly should be paying for this massive expansion in useless degrees if you wan't to prevent a rise in fees - a point you don't seem to have covered, kimbers. At least us elitists have a plan to keep fees down - decrease the numbers.
The problem the Lib Dems have is that it's easy to come up with idealist policy ideas when you don't expect to ever be faced with the reality of how to implement them...
so how does this in any way prevent another global financial meltdown, by actually reducing our knowledgebase?
Well it will be tough, but somehow we'll just have to muddle through with less people qualified in photography and meeja studies.
I just by the time my two have decide whether they want to go on to university or not the system will have collapsed and rebuilt itself into something more sustainable.
The Tories did start the rot when Polytechnics morphed into (generally second rate universites). They had a different role and filled it well. Labour really stuck the boot in and destroyed the social mobility aspect of universtiy that grants and acemdemic standards criteria had started to introduce in the 50s and 60s. All labour did was make it expensive to go to universtiy and less worthwhile financial when you came out. They also had huge double standards, on the one hand they based your eligibility for grants and loans on your parents income but then linked repayments to your income. The whole pont of what Labour was trying to do was give everyone an equal chance, great sentiment, why not treat everyone equally then, your background and parent's finances ought to be irrelevant if everyoone comes out the increased earning potential. Also seems ironic that those that least use the additional education they get and end up in low level jobs are also the ones least likely to repay their costs.
That's going to all pretty irrelevant though if call me Dave's all in together policies come to fruition. The whole system will crash, there's not many people who are going to take on £ 50k debt before they earnt anything. maybe it's all a cynical and cowardly wall to reduce the university sector without having the balls to stand up and say it's not actually desireable, affordable or economically required for so many people to have degrees. These plans are going to hit everybody except the really wealthy and put back genuine merit based social mobility back by decades.
The problem the Lib Dems have is that it's easy to come up with idealist policy ideas when you don't expect to ever be faced with the reality of how to implement them...
The problem with the Lib Dems is that even when they know that they probably will get some power through a coalition government (as happened in Scotland 10 years ago and this year in the UK in general) they still have absolutely no intention of implementing any of their key policies.
The Tories did start the rot when Polytechnics morphed into (generally second rate universites).
The change happened in the middle of my HE time - I started off at an average Poly (Sheffield) and ended up at a decent Uni (Warwick). I believe the opinion at the time was that Polys had a 2nd rate feel to them that wasn't really fair as the best Polys had better courses than the worst Unis. I think initially Polys were more vocational but by the time they changed they were similar IME - my Warwick MSc was pretty vocational really and you could study more academic courses at Poly if that was your thing. So I believe the change removed a level of snobbery - or at least attempted to as mostly we know the best and worst Unis and which one you went to does matter to a degree 😉
well saying silly degrees were [u]all[/u] good wasnt right
and
who exactly should be paying for this massive expansion in useless degrees if you wan't to prevent a rise in fees - a point you don't seem to have covered, kimbers. At least us elitists have a plan to keep fees down - decrease the numbers.
so....
personally id rather see people pay more to do soft degrees, unless exceptionally talented in which case you could get some kind of bursary - the arts do have some merit and im sure that someones done something useful with a media studies degree somewhere
and the rest should be funded with a means tested grant system
i also dont have a problem with an earnings related graduate tax
though knowing several ex IT graduates working in the city im sure theyd employ accountants to make sure they avoid those taxes the way they do the rest of em
still need extra money, then taxes would have to rise,
or i could wheel out the other libdem lie about scrapping trident....
I'm just thankful that I got to study Archaeology & Anthropology at Oxford for three years, without incurring debts of £20K plus - because there's not a cat's chance in hell I could do it now. My undergrad degree was of zero benefit financially (I subsequently worked as an auxiliary nurse...), but - **** me - I loved every minute of it & I'm eternally grateful for my Bod card. I can't even begin to quantify what it means to me.
Generally, I disagree with much of what [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4642806.stm ]Boris[/url] says, but his defence of education for, uhh, education's sake (especially Classics) is impeccable. Especially if the alternative is simply factory processing kids for a lifetime in accountancy.
Caution: Smug bugger reply...
Education has done me well, First class degree, (almost) a PhD and I am about to enter my dream job... In a country where the sun is out for 300 days a year!
For those of you who feel strongly about this there is going to be a march at Westminster on 10th November.
Stoner - Member
No. Labour killed the value of Uni when they started aiming for 50% young people undergraduate. But then Im an elitist dinosaur.
I have to agree on that!
Didn't want to go to uni. Couldn't afford it either. I'll use a few examples of people I know who went to uni. Same age or thereabouts. "A" has a degree in History, "B" in law and "C" in engineering (not sure which branch).
"A" now works as a manager in a retail outlet. Studied history because he was interested in it.
"B" now a lecturer at a uni. Worked for 12 years prior to going to uni. Funded himself (no debt when he finished)
"C" has his own sales agent business. Engineering because his dad was an engineer.
"A" and "B" used my tax £ to fund an interest or hobby if you will.
How would everyone on here like to contribute to my hobby?
"B" used my tax £ (and his own) to receive an education to educate others in the future. His uni experience will benefit the country at some point. "A" and "C"s experience has benefited them personally and given them the "uni" experience.
In each case, I earn more than them, have worked more years than them and have contributed more in tax than them.
Where has the education in History and Engineering gone? For balance, I also know 2 people who have been to uni and have a career directly related to their degrees.
I have 3 children. If they want to go to uni, they can. They will have to pay for their education and so they should. I dont want anyone to fund my childrens interests. If they want learn more to earn more, good for them. If they want to experience uni just for the experience....it should cost them.
I want to experience New Zealand...anyone willing to pay for me...?
No...?
Rant over.