[Closed] Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

We had some friends who out of the blue suddenly tried to convince us to attend Alpha sessions. They showed us a video of 'new' recruits being introduced to the doctrines. Now my experience of the modern christian church was previously one of reasonably subtlety, no more fire and brimstone from the pulpit (a bad thing IMO - after all, what is organised religion if it's not putting the willies up people? 😉 ).

But this video was the most hamfisted attempt at brainwashing I'd seen in my life. Not one of the people in it was a 'newbie' be any stretch of the imagination, you could have combed your hair in the reflection in their cheeks. Their questions and answers were so obviously scripted I was embarrased for them and the dirty great white line of indocrination was so bright it almost blinded me.

You could almost see them driving out of the car park not indicating before the video had even finished.

I don't know if their methods have changed at all but as above, if you want to believe in a higher deity go for it but steer clear of organised religion. If there is a god I'm fairly certain all he asks for is faith. You can do that without bothering anyone else. Which begs the question, why do these people bother anyone else?

But, having said all that, I am perfectly happy to accept that there is a god. All anyone has to do is present verifiable, convincing evidence. Then all us atheists can sit downand have a nice, scientific chat with god and work out a theory on how he fits into the known quantum universe and then we can move on. Despite the fact that, when examined, all the evidence points to a universe that doesn't have a god in it.

@samuri - The usual reasons. Power/money.

@woppit - I'd actually argue that from a scientific viewpoint, there's no evidence either way...

[i]"Good people will do good, evil people will do evil. But to get good people to do evil it takes religion"[/i]

Hmmm...not heard great things about it. Dressed up brianwashing by do-gooders. Think for you self, the universe could not give a flying **** about you. Get over it.

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SSP

Just been to see the guy do his God Collar show SSP. a couple of hours of great entertainment

The universe acts the way it does by a series of indentifiable and observable relationships between events, each one of which events are caused by a previous event and leads on to the next. On all levels in predictable sequences. Events which do not fit the current picture are available for hypothesising ("dark matter" for instance), investigation and testing, followed by establishing a theory. All theory is able to be disproved so that the knowledge base improves over time. Everything changes in recognisable cause and effect patterns. There is no evidence of "miraculous" (ie: unexplainable), intervention on any level, macro or microcosmoligically, biologically or otherwise. Evolution, for instance, is a crane, not a skyhook.

It is true that the last place often claimed by the religious where god hides, "before" the big bang, is unexplained by science. That does not mean that "god did it". It simply means that science has not yet progressed to the point where this can be explained. ie: "We don't know". To that I would add - yet.

Marcus Brigstock is playing Cheltenham soon...might book tickets!

Mr Woppit: Science evolves with increases in understanding - religion is stagnent and fixed.

I know which I prefer.

SSP

Just make sure you speak in tongues. You'll be having a private dialogue with God. Or you'll just be making up & repeating sounds. One of the two.

Holy shit.

The Alpha Course is just Christians trying to fight back against Scientology etc working 'their' turf. Its all a crock of sh!t whichever way you spread it.

The reason I asked the original question is that I'm going through a bit of a difficult time at the moment and I wanted to see if the Alpha course had made any real difference to peoples lives.

The Alpha course is bottom feeding, bumping up the numbers in a struggling church with the weak, the needy and the impressionable.

I went to see Cannon & Ball on their evangelical tour. I even enjoyed it!!! There, it's out in the open and I'm not ashamed.

When I had a peak at this thread earlier, I thought I would make a comment later. But looking at the way it has gone, I don't think I'll bother now.........all really rather predictable.

If there is a God the ****er certainly doesn't believe in me, so why should I bother with him/her/it?

Given the last year or two I don't believe in much anymore.

You mean not the same views as yourself?

I have faith. Faith in human nature, that folks will choice the right moral thing to do, and I think sometimes its easier to lump faith and religion together than go through the process of compartmentalising them.

I was brought up a Catholic, but struggled with the discrepancies between the Old Testament and New Testament. It felt as though the church was losing its grip on the people with the 'fire and brimstone', and therefore started to offer [i]Diet Religion in the form of an all-loving God to keep people interested.

I had some close friends a few years ago that were evangelical christians, and we got on really well. When my ex and I split up, I encouraged her to talk to them because they'd been so supportive, but they proceeded to tell her that our demise was through God's anger/disappointment that we'd been 'living in sin'. That was clarification to me...

However, who am I to critique the methods folk use to find comfort and solace? If someone who has encountered loss or pain benefits from organised religion, then who am I to argue? Once we're gone, we're gone - it doesn't matter what are views are before.

Foxy Chicks response made me laugh out load though!

Make your own mind up.
Go along - ask questions and see what you find out.
I happen to believe in God. I guess I can't believe all of this world happened by chance - too much faith required for that.
My experience with the Alpha course was that it was an open friendly place with all questions accepted and treated seriously - have a go.

I happen to believe in God. I guess I can't believe all of this world happened by chance - too much faith required for that

steelfan - Member

Have I opened a can of worms? The reason I asked the original question is that I'm going through a bit of a difficult time at the moment and I wanted to see if the Alpha course had made any real difference to peoples lives. Not necessarily becoming a devout Christian but has it made them view their lives in a different light. To be honest I dont know what believe in at the moment. I'm willing to explore all avenues during this difficult time.

If you are having a difficult time I would suggest non religious counselling. Using religion as a crutch is pretty dangerous IMO

@joolsburger I don't think you need to ridicule faith. It can be an essentially good & powerful emotion. The religious propaganda that is attributed to it though can be nonsense..

Well, Im an [b]out and out born again Christian, as a result of Alpha a few years back. [/b]I studied Philosophy at Uni and was a total atheist, had a total spiritual experience and became a Christian. Since than I've spent 3 years with the British Forces in Germany as lay Christian Preacher/Minister, which was rather daunting at 23! I loved the whole experience and respect the fact that everyone has there own beliefs.
Im now back in the U.K and taking a break, I work as a cycle guide and preach about how great cycling is! Its a hugely emotional lifestyle living as Christian and very moving to try and live as Christlike as possible, its not for everyone, but I love it!
Alphas a good thing but like I said not everyones cup of tea!

Good to see a big response about God, discussion always good to have.

Junkyard - since you ask:
Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. Hebrews ch11 v1
As I see it, you put your faith in something - either Science or God. You choose.
It is a personal decision.
That is why my suggestion was to go along and ask questions - if the people running the Alpha course do not have answers, they will say so... but will try to get an answer for you by the next time.
I can only answer from my personal experience - when I am riding (or in the mtns skiing) I look at the view and marvel at God's creation. My feelings.

mmm pg tips.. i have faith in that, always total confidence! that's my cup of tea 😆

I really like the forum, but the God-bashing that goes on here is surprisingly ignorant.

I strongly suspect the atheist fundamentalist gob-sh1tes on here haven't actually attended an alpha-course. But that does not stop them preaching their ignorance does it?

Adults with imaginary friends are stupid

Ha! I must cheated my way through my science and engineering degrees then.

Ha! I must cheated my way through my science and engineering degrees then.

No, but if you atribute those results to talking to a 2000 year old Jewish zombie via telepathy you would be.

Please do not project your ignorance on others, I have explored all sorts of religions and have found them all very "unsatisfactory" I have had, what some would call, a "religious moment" but my rational mind put it down to dehydration, exhaustion and heat-stroke...but I enjoyed it anyway! The feeling of empathy, love and contentment was amazing. Does it have to be caused by "god" or is the explanation that its just electrolye deficiency not "special" enough.

SSP

Out of interest, have my comments been read as reasonable or ignorant?

"Hows my posting? 1-800-drivel"

😉

Fine so far according to the toothfairy!

Lol 😉

@SingleSpeedPunk maybe you just don't feel your special enough to accept it.
btw the way I am neither religious or atheist. I just have an open mind..

" LoulaBella - Member

Well, Im an out and out born again Christian, as a result of Alpha a few years back. I studied Philosophy at Uni and was a total atheist, had a total spiritual experience and became a Christian"

I suggest you examine the possibility that you suffered a Temporal Lobe Epileptic Fit.

" tegski - Member

Make your own mind up.
Go along - ask questions and see what you find out.
I happen to believe in God. I guess I can't believe all of this world happened by chance "

Things do not happen by chance. I thought I explained that? Cause and effect have nothing to do with chance and therefore do not require any "faith", simply observation and understanding.

It is evident, not only from this thread, that the religious simply cannot understand the simplest of reasoning - as I have said, the religious warping gets in the way. This is why it needs constant repetition: There is no evidence. Show me the evidence and I will accept your proposition that a "god" exists.

Religion may be very comforting, but that doesn't make it true.

Breaking into mass psychosis a la the "toronto blessing" is not proof of the existece of a god, only an example of human suggestibility.

What is your evidence? I am available right now to be converted. Go ahead.....

[i]Dressed up brianwashing[/i]

And what does Brian feel about people getting dressed up to wash him?

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(Noteeth - atheist and sometime palaeo-athropologist. I am deeply moved by the depth of Geological time.)

What is your evidence? I am available right now to be converted. Go ahead.....

Your minds already made up by the sound of things.

I also dont see myself as 'religious', I have faith, in Jesus Christ and want to live my life by his example, serving and loving others.

So, no evidence, then? Just an imaginary friend, as always. The "example" you mention is, of course, just a set of behaviours that can be found in all sorts of places, philosophies, stories etc. All very noble.

Not however, evidence of the existence of either the alleged Nazarene or any type of "god".

What I don't understand is why you don't understand that.

As I said. I am ready to be converted. All you have to do is show me the evidence. Go ahead. Do it now...

something makes me think he doesn't want to be.. 😆

I rest my case. Gotta go. 'bye!

he's got experiments to conduct.. 8)

I really like the forum, but the God-bashing that goes on here is surprisingly ignorant.

To be honest I feel an obligation to present an anti-religious, anti-faith (anti-christ, if you like) viewpoint from time to time. Simply because some, not all, of the religious feel an obligation to put their side across. It's all about balance.

As long as there are organisations, like the christian church, who (1)peddle a view that is (in my opinion) nonsense and (2) feel a need to bring everyone else round to that view, I will do my bit in countering it.

It's the evangelism that I object to, not the believing in nonsense. I have no issue with judaism for example. I think they're wrong but they don't want to convert the world so let them get on with it.

And let's be clear about Alpha. It is not a service to society provided by the church to allow us to think [u]neutrally[/u] about the big issues. It is an evangelical tool. If it didn't have a positive conversion rate it would have been dropped long ago. It's no better that a scientologists 'personality test' or time-share sales (in the hereafter).

STW is not anti - religion it is just anti spouting nonesense again persuade us of your case we could be convinced with evidence if you could produce it.
Granted we are not exactly at the cutting edge of philosophical debate but I am happy to discuss St Thomas Aquinas or David Hume if required.

ps as your book of truiths defines faith/your belief as

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

I think it's ignorance of other peoples beliefs..

I feel slightly exasperated, it is kinda en-vogue to be an atheist.

But in my opinion it is a easy option and pretty lazy in post-modern society. Were as religion was for the masses before popular science had evolved to become part of popular culture.

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It's the agnostics who are lazy in my opinion. I'm a pretty active and committed atheist. Depending on how you phrase it, it's a pretty big question (Where did we come from? What is life? etc) and it deserves serious consideration.

The agnostic "I don't really know" (a la Mavis Riley) is a bit weak. Maybe we should prod them with pointy sticks 'til they join one camp or the other.

I suppose deep down my concern is that, until someone comes up with an atheist Alpha course, the undecided/unthinking will only ever be pulled one way.

As Bart Simpson asked...

Will cavemen go to hell?

STW is not anti - religion it is just anti spouting nonesense.

Unless you happen to believe that 'religion' = 'spouting nonsense'.

As Bart Simpson asked...

Will cavemen go to hell?

And spend eternity discovering fire?

I'm glad we're all agreed that faith and religion is bunkum, and that gullible people will believe anything put in front of them that seems to denote order where there is chaos, and this is a useful way of controlling the sheeple through fear...

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