Spoke to my friend today who told me he went to his children's Christmas carol eve last night and that none of the Muslim children sang, but the school now have halal meat for all students regardless of faith, this is at a CofE school.
All other faiths at the school sang including Jewish (my friends children are Jewish), Hindu which make up the majority and obviously Christians.
Is this the norm?
I'm genuinely interested not some alf garnet wannabe
We're all going to hell in a hand basket
They'll be banning calendars with norks and tyres on next!
Having said that, if you're going to pander to the demands of any particular religion, it makes sense that its the explodiest one.
Perhaps we need suicide nuns to redress the balance?
I used to work at a C of E school that was multi-faith as far as the students were concerned and that sounds about right. People would be excused for their beliefs from assemblies etc, not sure if they now serve Halal but I wouldn't be surprised.
Tea + biscuits + hopefully nipping out for a night ride this evening = enough time for this to develop nicely for a bit of amusement post-ride.
I'm hoping for great things you Usual Suspects, don't disappoint.
if one party doesn't care how their animals are killed for consumption and the other does, where is the problem?
besides, how much meat is in turkey twizzlers anyway?
I think people should boycott halal meat anyways, additional unnecessary suffering of animals in the name of ridiculous superstitions (religion).
What, no pasta?
You can take our christmas carols, but you'll never take our kebabs!!!!
@loddick Halal preparation has its roots in reducing animal suffering and food hygine in hot countries with no refirgeration (ie before it existed).
If the school has a high number of observant Muslim kids them there is no particular issue with all the meat being Halal, assuming its no more expensive. I imagine the school governors would have discussed this with the head.
I'm sure they do vegetarian food, as an option for kids/parents who give a shit about how their meat is killed.
This reminds me of when Pizza Express made all their chicken halalā¦ but then they still do lots of yummy pork based yummies as well. Ironically/pleasingly. Or pick vegi toppingsā¦ they have loads of them as well.
Pigs in blankets are off the Christmas dinner menu then?
loddrik - Member
I think people should boycott halal meat anyways, additional unnecessary suffering of animals in the name of ridiculous superstitions (religion).
Halal preparation of meat doesn't cause additional suffering, if it did it would probably be illegal in the UK anyway. If you want to reduce suffering to animals don't eat meat would be my advice.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/09/halal-meat-animals-minorites-society ]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/09/halal-meat-animals-minorites-society[/url]
Doesn't jesus feature in the muslim fiction book as well?
To be fair I don't sing in church either and given the choice won't enter one.
Halal preparation of meat doesn't cause additional suffering, if it did it would probably be illegal in the UK anyway.
Really? Those crazy Danes (among others) must have it so wrong then.
there was a lot of fuss in the Daily Mail about halal meat being served in hospitals a coupe of years back.
turns out the caterers were putting out for quotes, and the halal offerings were cheaper.
the Mail had about a 5 page whinge over that one
Whats wrong with halal meat then?
Rich_s - Member
Really? Those crazy Danes (among others) must have it so wrong then.
Read the article I linked to, it's pretty clear that the Danes, like the Front National in France, have been using this misinformation as a means of threatening/sidelining minorities. In some parts of France they don't even use pain and suffering as an excuse to ban it, they use the notion of secularism (similar to the manner they want to ban [or have, I can't remember] the burka on the grounds of secularism).
Whats wrong with halal meat then?
thin end of the wedge innit. One minute you're eating a halal kebab, next minute they (foreign types) are beheading your daughter for not wearing a hijab. It's political correctness gone mad. I heard they want to ban sunshine because it offends blind people.
If you read the guardian aricle it says 90% of the halal meat is stuned before having it's thoat cut so that leaves 10% that isn't.
Maybe they should just serve vegetarian food which should be edible by everybody.
thin end of the wedge innit. One minute you're eating a halal kebab, next minute they (foreign types) are beheading your daughter for not wearing a hijab. It's political correctness gone mad. I heard they want to ban sunshine because it offends blind people.
Well quite. IMO my kids are being fed decent quality meat and veg, rather than fried mars bars, thats the end of the matter for me.
Becuase the British meat industry treats animals so well š
and there is nowt wrong with not partaking in other peoples so called religions about some invisible sky god.
You need to ask yourself how dead was that chicken or turkey before it had it's feathers scolded off, How far was that pig or calf thrown and how many times was it stamped on. There is a shed load of videos and news items on the internet, so before spouting Halal this and that tosh, have a look at the standard animal from farm to slaughter treatment.
Bunch of fish wives š
propper LOL @ binners.
my kids dont sing them either or eat meat
Don't worry though we are white so its ok.
its heartening to see the meat eater care how their factory farmed prey is slaughtered...the humanitarianism of this is like a beacon shining almost as bright as god's love for us all.I think people should boycott halal meat anyways, additional unnecessary suffering of animals
my kids dont sing them either or eat meat
Why not? Have you actively taken away their choice to do so? Poor kids.
Dont the kids just get an orange with some sweets skewered to it with a lit candle rammed in the middle? Or are the haribo non halal and the candles too christian?
I'm aethist and don't sing any jesus songs, I do stand though, out of respect for the faith. Great fun at weddings where I stand smiling when they video the church as everyone else sings.
Those crazy Danes (among others) must have it so wrong then.
I'm not aware that meat production by the Danes is exactly a model to aspire to.
Great fun at weddings where I stand smiling when they video the church as everyone else sings.
Sounds hilarious. I bet you get a special invitation just because of that.
Junkyard - how can you deny your poor children the joys of a bacon sarnie on a sunday morning with HP??
[FLOUNCE]You're off my xmas card list.[/FLOUNCE]
[url= http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter ]The RSPCA don't like it.[/url]
Im an aetheist and sometimes sing jesus songs.
True story
RSPCA don't like a lot of things.
Exoitic pets, fish and knowing what they are talking about.
PS RSPCA is just a charity, like Oxfam but with more delusions of grandeur
RSPCA don't like a lot of things.Exoitic pets, fish and knowing what they are talking about.
PS RSPCA is just a charity, like Oxfam but with more delusions of grandeur
So?
I don't particularly like the RSPCA.
However, the exotic pet trade does have a lot of problems.
Don't particularly like Halal slaughter practices either.
It's funny how this issue seems to get some of left wing, atheist, hand wringers all confused.
^^
But the none exotic pet trade is pretty horrendus and there are more of these sales happening than exotics. RSPCA is just a charity that has been put on a pedestal which is wrong.
Halal and none Halal animal treatments can be just as bad as one another, so it has to be a case of all or none getting the big 'TUT TUTS'
Halal preparation has its roots in reducing animal suffering and food hygine in hot countries with no refirgeration (ie before it existed).
But we have refrigeration and it was snowing last week. Ergo, it's irrelevant in 21st Century Britain on those arguments alone.
Put that another way: halal slaughter may have been preferable to non-halal slaughter in the absence of better methods; but if we have better methods then rather than being preferable it's actually worse. So we're into the realms of "but we've always done it this way," by that argument we should still use leeches in surgery because it's better than bleeding to death.
Halal preparation of meat doesn't cause additional suffering, if it did it would probably be illegal in the UK
Sorry but this is just plain wrong. The British Veterinary Assoc. could not have been clearer in their last observational study of slaughterhouses - slaughter without stunning causes significant avoidable suffering particularly to larger animals.
I forget the exact figure but I think it was around 1/5 of cows were not rendered immediately unconscious by having their throats slit - many continued to remain conscious for up to 3 minutes and a good number of these ultimately choked to death on their own blood.
There's no two ways about it - the laws that were put in place to ensure humane slaughter have now been circumvented on an industrial scale to the point where around I live there are now very few places that don't serve Halal.
If you choose to eat Halal you should do so knowing that there's a 1/10 chance that the animal suffered terribly in its final few minutes of life - all so that the requirements of a book of stories can be observed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/reform-of-kosher-and-halal-slaughter-practices
As an antitheist meat eater who is well aware of how and where mass produced meat comes from, I don't really care whether meat is halal or not.
The religious aspect is irrelevant.. It's the animal suffering as little as possible is my main worry.
Normal abbatoirs are pretty barbaric (there are plenty of examples of animals partially stunned and suffering in regular UK abbatoirs) as is halal slaughter.. But still we eat meat.. Makes no difference to me.. If I want cheap mass produced meat then I have that on my conscience.. The halal thing is a non issue.
my kids dont sing them either or eat meat
Don't worry though we are white so its ok.
No it not! How on earth will they get protein !!1!!1 etc etc etc.
just5minutes - Memberaround I live there are now very few places that don't serve Halal
Have you thought of moving?
How does halal compare with kosher?
I think most places that mass-cater pre-prepared meals buy Halal by default for ease of and cost of bulk buying, and as a result many of their large suppliers will default their production to Halal. All our police custody meals are Halal for example.
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Won't somebody think of the chickens !
PC madness, world gone mad, what about baby Jesus and Santa, is his mince pie halal, what does Donald Trump think?
I got suspended from my C of E school for the last week of school for not singing Christmas carols. I had a teacher scream at me because I was pointing out the basic errors in the Christmas story to the whole class. I asked the teacher why he was screaming and he just walked to the headteachers office and told the headteacher that I had called him a Fing C and asked that I be removed from school, which I was.
I was a little prick at school but that teacher was a monumental bellend.
Got that off my chest, saved me $3000 with my shrink.
Just think, by way of showing your gratitude you could buy a Premier digital subscription with the money you've saved.
(-:
i'll take one for xmas
@sweepy - pukka
I hear donald tdumps waded in on canadian abbatoirs now. Says they should all be shut down.
Beacause of all the moose limbs.
Eh? Eh? Moose limbs? No?
sweepy - Member
How does halal compare with kosher?
POSTED 42 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
A different group of hirsute pedants wanders around once a year and collects a cheque from the processor.
@just5 and what happens when the industrial scale that is non-Halal slaughter fails to stun the animal ? My belief that the number of animals who are not stunned correctly exceeds total Halal meat slaughter by a very large amount.
How does halal compare with kosher?
I am guessing no Rabi's are involved in Halal š I would think the two are quite similar as they have the same "health and safety" derivation
Jamby is speaking sense
Sorry but this is just plain wrong. The British Veterinary Assoc. could not have been clearer in their last observational study of slaughterhouses - slaughter without stunning causes significant avoidable suffering particularly to larger animals.
1. The vast majority is stunned.
2. Stunning doesn't always work.
When considering the entire meat production chain in the UK, focussing on stunned halal vs stunned conventional slaughter is an utter triviality. It's difficult to take at face value the concerns that are expressed on this issue.
Put that another way: halal slaughter may have been preferable to non-halal slaughter in the absence of better methods; but if we have better methods then rather than being preferable it's actually worse.
Well religious zealots are not particularly well known for applying the old stories logically.
amazingly halal meat tastes the same as meat killed in any other way. how carnivores can get upset how the animals they eat readily are killed is beyond me.
how carnivores can get upset how the animals they eat readily are killed is beyond me.
Really? I find it fairly easy to understand why meat-eaters might be concerned about the production and slaughter methods used to provide them with meat.
Have another go and think about it again.
Really? I find it fairly easy to understand why meat-eaters might be concerned about the production and slaughter methods used to provide them with meat.
if you're that concerned maybe you should consider veganism? animals are bred for one thing and it's not for petting and billing and cooing over
animals are bred for one thing and it's not for petting and billing and cooing over
It doesn't automatically follow that they should be exposed to unnecessary suffering.
It is perfectly reasonable that someone should want to eat meat which hasn't involved cruelty and unnecessary suffering in its production.
I'm surprised that anyone should struggle to understand that.
Becuase the British meat industry treats animals so well
Fair point. If the way in which animals are supposed to be killed worked, it would be fair to say that it's more humane than halal, but it doesn't. In fact there isn't a lot in it.
I was pointing out the basic errors in the Christmas story to the whole class
Aren't you just the cleverest? Well done.
Even if things I said as a primary school child had a grain of truth in them, I still feel embarrassed even thinking about them now. Maybe because I've had a few accomplishments since.
Unnecessary suffering???
Most of the animals we eat lead lives of almost constant suffering.
I used to be a butcher, and have spent a not inconsiderable amount of time in abattoirs and all killing is bloody unpleasant for the animals.
I never hear anyone moaning about intensive farming (if you saw the "farms" your milk came from you would be sick) being cruel, always with the same old "halal is barbaric" bollocks.
Guess what?
Meat is murder...
(I eat meat.)
In the far east we don't mix. i.e. we let you decide what you want to eat.
We are a multi-racial country but our govt says we are a Muslim country ... apparently.
If we eat or like pork then we go to pork eating schools but if we go to non-pork eating school we obey their rules by not eating pork. i.e. majority govt funded ones. Even in some govt funded schools we still have different stalls selling different food catering for different religions but not many.
However, if they come to our schools (non- Muslim or semi govt funded) they just eat from the Muslim stall preparing Muslim food at school. i.e. we have two catering teams. Most schools have at least two sub-contractors catering for food.
We can eat their food but they cannot eat ours ... simple. Woohoo!
As for OP's school you have a head idiot running the school.
In the UK your Muslim population is making such a big fuss about this that their views are even more extreme than ours. What's with this shite that suddenly all of them becoming so religious all of a sudden? FFS! Just eat elsewhere or eat from different catering team.
Yes, we have all the baddies there too ...
chewkw - MemberIn the far east we don't mix. i.e. we let you decide what you want to eat.
We are a multi-racial country but our govt says we are a Muslim country ... apparently.
What Newcastle?
So it turns out that Donald Trump was that far wrong about the Islamification of Britain.
Btw London is further east than Newcastle so less of the 'far east' please.
? You do know that the school offers a vegetarian and vegan option as well. Should they be forced to eat meat and dairy products?
Jeez chaps it's meat. A decomposing mass of flesh that had a miserable and tragic life and a grotesque death. The school offers options so what's wrong with taking advantage of those options.
Not having to take part in hymn singing or Christmas is not a new thing. I'm in my forties and remember kids being excused from taking part, plus having selective meals. Just that back then the children were Jewish.
Jeez chaps it's meat. A decomposing mass of flesh
You need to hone your shopping skills.
You'll generally find a 'use by date' on supermarket meat products.
ernie_lynch - Member
chewkw - Member
In the far east we don't mix. i.e. we let you decide what you want to eat.
We are a multi-racial country but our govt says we are a Muslim country ... apparently.What Newcastle?
So it turns out that Donald Trumps was that far wrong about the Islamification of Britain.
Btw London is further east than Newcastle so less of the 'far east' please.
Ahhh ... No, not the Geordie Toon.
I was referring to the land I once used to live where I still and like to refer to as "my country".
The Toon is my home now with the blessing from the Queen but somehow it does not feel exactly like "home" because I was brought up in a non-western environment ... We don't go PC like you lot. We tell it like it is to your face. Yes, we do. That is the norm over there but people just laugh it off without taking much offense ... both sides.
Trump is not wrong. Your muslim population here is actually "more muslim" than those from the muslim country like ours. Unfortunately, in UK you have inherited got a bunch of shite stirrer, I am afraid, from Asia continent. In our country (ex) the local muslim don't like them (from Asia) even when both have the same belief but tolerate them to some extend.
London? It's just an expensive slum ... it's a little foreign country according to my far east outspoken ex-PM.
š
edit: FFS! What's the big deal? Why not just have two canteens ... nothing to go anal or PC about this.
Ahhh ... land I used to live which I still and like to refer to as "my country".
So why do you keep banging on about UKIP and constantly come out with all this crap claiming refugees should be denied asylum if you don't even consider that the UK is 'your country'?
It's a bit of a nerve interfering and telling people what they should do in their own country, isn't it?
ernie_lynch - Member
Ahhh ... land I used to live which I still and like to refer to as "my country".
So why do you keep banging on about UKIP and constantly come out with all this crap claiming refugees should be denied asylum if you don't even consider that the UK is 'your country'.It's a bit of a nerve interfering and telling people what they should do in their own country, isn't it?
I like UKIP with their non-PC approach coz they speak their minds and I am use to that.
Yes, some say it's like turkey voting for Xmas. What? We are in the 70s now?
Besides, I don't buy the argument of EU Superstate coz it's just stoopid utopia ...
As for whichever country I called "my country" they are all shite to be honest. They are all hell holes and yes they are. When you have not much money regardless where you are they are all shite.
I don't exactly deny the refugees but rather they should respect the bureaucratic procedures by not swamping the system. (the weak spot for in the bureaucratic system as they are slow to process the information) I learned this the bureaucratic way here so try not to get too emotional about this. They MUST respect the system. As for experience of refugees well where I used to live we have tonnes of them to the point of almost overwhelming the local population.
You called that interfering? Really? š
C'mon! Have some confidence in yourself. I think you being kind to think that way by giving me such credit ... yes?
If I can really make a different by interfering then that is the day I become the Dear Leader in this country.
Are you really so affected by my response? Crikey ... š®
edit: Where I came from the locals don't fly the national flag instead it is the "foreigners (2nd/3rd generation migrants)" that fly the national flag. š You fly the national flag you are a foreigner and we can spot you miles away. In the UK it is the opposite ... funny world this is.
One of the great strengths of the CofE is its willingness to take into account other peoples' wishes, others would argue it is a weakness but I wouldn't be one of them.
Yes, some say it's like turkey voting for Xmas.
Not in your case. You got here as an economic migrant and secured yourself UK nationality, despite apparently not considering the UK to be 'your country'.
And now you want to deny Syrians fleeing war, for example, asylum in the UK.
It's nothing like turkeys voting for Christmas.
ernie_lynch - Member
Yes, some say it's like turkey voting for Xmas.
Not in your case. You got here as an economic migrant and secured yourself UK nationality, despite apparently not considering the UK to be 'your country'.
FFS! š Do I have to fly the flag? We don't even do that where I used to be. It's not something we do.
Our motto is simple. Respect the locals/natives whatever and if we can do that then we are already part of that society/country. Simple. What's this shite about our country, your country ... once friend cheered "Singapore!" loudly during a game of table football (yes a game) as a patriotic gesture he nearly got a good hiding from us.
And now you want to deny Syrians fleeing war, for example, asylum in the UK.
No. They just have to follow the bureaucratic procedures. If they want to seek asylum then fill in all the necessary forms. Get process, queue up etc but why swamp the system? Just because they can or they want to? As my Jewish mate grandma once say ... children died if you leave them alone. People die all over the world everyday not that I am heartless but that is the fact.
It's nothing like turkeys voting for Christmas
Yes, it does coz the lefties once (or several times) said that to me on STW. š
One of the great strengths of the CofE is its willingness to take into account other peoples' wishes
Only appropriate considering it was founded to take into account one particular person's wish to be shot of a spouse. š
How does halal compare with kosher?
Barely but it is permissible for Muslims to eat it - oddly enough the [s]racists [/s] people deeply concerned about the welfare of the animals factory farmed for their table dont seem to get quite as irate as that
Ernie getting sucked in by the chewky tractor beam... š
Ernie getting sucked in by the chewky tractor beam...
It is a glorious sight to behold....
nowt wrong with not partaking in other peoples so called religions about some invisible sky god.
sweeping stament, how do we know there is no good, to dismiss it out of had is just as bad as being a religious nutter
sweeping stament, how do we know there is no good, to dismiss it out of had is just as bad as being a religious nutter
Doesn't it come down to whether you require evidence to believe something or whether you accept things through faith?
Doesn't it come down to whether you require evidence to believe something or whether you accept things through faith?
Do we have all the evidence to prove this one way or another? As I would hate to jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts; especially as our very best optimistic guess we know about ~5% of what the universe is made of, so armed with that extensive knowledge you should be able to make a irrefutable conclusion... just like any teenager can tell you how *everything* works š
duckman - Member
Ernie getting sucked in by the chewky tractor beam...
š Beam me up Scotty!
bongohoohaa - Member
Ernie getting sucked in by the chewky tractor beam...
It is a glorious sight to behold....
Oh c'mon! It is not that bad ... I did not probe anyone you know.
I think it more or less comes down to this; animal slaughter in the UK has within it fundamental cruelty. So it's interesting how many people only care about it with halal. In particular, when they don't care about shechita. Obviously there's many reasons for this, I don't know exactly what the split between ignorance, hypocrisy and racism is.
rOcKeTdOg - Memberamazingly halal meat tastes the same as meat killed in any other way. how carnivores can get upset how the animals they eat readily are killed is beyond me.
It's really not very difficult to understand tbh. Personally I prefer animals to be killed as cruelly as possible, to add to the guilty pleasure.
(ok, really- I'm not comfortable with the level of animal suffering in our slaughter industry. But there's more than one way to reduce that. Ultimately I'm happy with the idea that we kill animals to eat but we make it suck as little as possible)
I don't know exactly what the split between ignorance, hypocrisy and racism is.
Nicely put. š
So it's interesting how many people only care about it with halal. In particular, when they don't care about shechita.
I don't think your bog standard bigot has got much love for Teh Jews either and if they knew about Jewish ritual slaughter they'd bang on about that too. But they don't know about it - mostly because there are ten times as many Muslims in the UK as Jews, and you practically never see kosher as a food option. There's nothing sinister about halal being focused on more than the Wee Frees' requirement that chickens be kicked to death on the sabbath before its flesh can be consumed (a requirement I just made up).
Otoh I agree that for a certain class of newspaper columnist it's less uncomfortable to yabber about halal than shechita because they don't have many Muslim friends, colleagues or bosses.