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The rest of NATO and other US "allies" should put together a list of actions that will be taken if Donald does use military force against Greenland.
This should include US bases that will be closed, arms contracts that will be cancelled and other economic sanctions to be enforced.
Basically make public the exact consequences of such an ill-advised incursion.
There should also be an alternative plan offered which covers Greenland's defence by NATO.
Show a bit of strength and leave a path for Trump to back down and TACO!
Putin must be loving this.
Basically make public the exact consequences of such an ill-advised incursion.
Have you drawn up such a plan where, if he calls the bluff of all concerned, it doesn’t leave much of Europe highly exposed to Russia… given that there is every chance that he would see that as a positive side effect? A line drawn down the Atlantic where nothing to the East of Iceland is the concern of the USA at all.
Also, with that strategy, you'd have to assume that the UK nuclear deterrent would simply cease to function. We may have the warheads under control, but the US controls the missiles they are strapped to.
That would leave the UK, Europe and NATO reliant on France for it's strategic deterrent against Russia and China.
Oh, and anyone that uses F-35s.
And possibly GPS. The irony would be having to drop to GLONASS for navigation.
That would leave the UK, Europe and NATO reliant on France for it's strategic deterrent against Russia, the USA and China.
FTFY regrettably
The rest of NATO and other US "allies" should put together a list of actions that will be taken if Donald does use military force against Greenland.
Quietly wind down buying US Bonds and start selling them. Quietly but quickly accelerate the digital Euro and start a conversation about accepting Brics Pay for trolling/putting the US off balance. Promote, very heavily in the short term, the use of cash.
No further arms industry orders.
Invest in Eutelsat.
Build a European army (in addition to national armies) to provide a rapid response option to a Russian land invasion.
Remove US forces and logistics hubs from Europe.
Promote Mistral, make that the AI of choice for government bodies.
Start moving to Linux for government bodies (again, speak to the French for lessons.
Have another chat with the French about big missiles for Submarines.
No dramatic and confrontational announcements. But also firm resistance to pressure to acquiesce.
Sit back and watched a massively indebted and overextended empire hit reverse in its place for the world and try and manage as best as possible when they inevitably lash out in various directions. The US debt is so high we might get to see the US have it's Gold Standard moment. Although I fully expect the IS to remain a leading power regardless as geography is on their side.
I obviously have no ****ing idea what I'm talking about and am completely talking out of my arse.
The rest of NATO and other US "allies" should put together a list of actions that will be taken if Donald does use military force against Greenland.
This should include US bases that will be closed, arms contracts that will be cancelled and other economic sanctions to be enforced.
Basically make public the exact consequences of such an ill-advised incursion.
There should also be an alternative plan offered which covers Greenland's defence by NATO.
Show a bit of strength and leave a path for Trump to back down and TACO!
Putin must be loving this.
There's a lot of respected folk both sides of the Atlantic been explaining the consequences of closing US bases, dumping US bonds, restricting US tech firms, cutting arms imports.
That's before the military risks are considered.
A lot of Trump loyalists are beginning to realise this is the time to make a very important choice
Well, it appears that there is a value to Greenland... 6450 billion SEK, call it 650 billion USD. Denmark did tell him to go F himself though, so it looks like an invasion is on the cards.
Thats multiple millions per resident is it not?
And possibly GPS. The irony would be having to drop to GLONASS for navigation.
Europe has its own "GPS" system called Galileo, I think the UK might be excluded from it because brexit.
I always believed that the UK and EU kowtowing to the US in the tariff wars was going to embolden him to go further, I am quite surprised how quickly it has escalated since.
Have you drawn up such a plan where, if he calls the bluff of all concerned, it doesn’t leave much of Europe highly exposed to Russia…
Have you noticed Russia can't even beat Ukraine after 4 years?
Maybe so, but look at the impact on the people of that country. If you don’t think that kind of pain is more likely for other countries, if the USA is suddenly dropped as a defence partner by all states on the Eastern side of the Atlantic… where does that confidence come from?
Maybe so, but look at the impact on the people of that country. If you don’t think that kind of pain is more likely for other countries, if the USA is suddenly dropped as a defence partner by all states on the Eastern side of the Atlantic… where does that confidence come from?
I'm not saying it won't happen, but I don't think Russia can cope with a second front - they'd lose ground in Ukraine, and struggle to gain it elsewhere.
I'm saying this with no specific knowledge or experience of military or geopolitical matters.
He's trying to claim it via tariff
Also, with that strategy, you'd have to assume that the UK nuclear deterrent would simply cease to function. We may have the warheads under control, but the US controls the missiles they are strapped to.
That would leave the UK, Europe and NATO reliant on France for it's strategic deterrent against Russia and China.
Oh, and anyone that uses F-35s.
And possibly GPS. The irony would be having to drop to GLONASS for navigation.
Hate to be the bearer but our entire way of life depends on a set of encryption tokens needed for hosting cloud services.
I wonder how much American defence companies are pushing back against this stuff. Who's going to want to buy F35s now?
I wonder how much American defence companies are pushing back against this stuff. Who's going to want to buy F35s now?
I suspect that most of their current users will because a chunk of Europe, Australia, Canada, Israel and Japan are amongst 1900 suppliers to the programme. Turkiye wants to get back in too https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news/where-is-the-lockheed-martin-f-35-built/
The UK is the primary US partner in their development and now we're buying a few more for air delivery of nuclear weapons https://des.mod.uk/uk-to-purchase-f-35as-and-join-nato-nuclear-mission/
It’s a weird one but we do make a lot of bits for it and I vaguely remember we kit ours out with our own avionics and trick stuff.
https://www.f35.com/f35/global-enterprise/united-kingdom.html
I suppose it’s easier to reverse engineer something that’s already sat around when you only have to do it for parts of the plane you don’t make, it’s not like you’ve had to nick one without the instructions.
Although we did have that one stranded in India.
I always believed that the UK and EU kowtowing to the US in the tariff wars was going to embolden him to go further, I am quite surprised how quickly it has escalated since.
I think that we'll see what happens there. President Trump always starts will all options on the table, despite them being clearly impractical.
He's already skipped invasion, possibly because NATO planted troops on Greenland and because it isn't popular with anyone. He's now threatened tariffs, so that's a climb down.
It now needs the western world to stand up to him on tariffs, like China did, and he'll step back again. I might be over-reaching here, but there are signs that his "allies" are pushing back hard because they've realised, like many customers of his, that he doesn't stick to a deal.
We just need the Supreme Court to find against tariffs and he's in a mess,
Trump has described the battle over tariffs in epic terms, warning a loss would tie his hands in trade negotiations and imperil national security. He has said that if he does not win the case, the US would be "weakened" and in a "financial mess" for many years to come. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr578pvlp8qo
It now needs the western world to stand up to him on tariffs
That's my hope, neuter the orange Gibbon, kowtowing last time did not last long and the reasons for tariffs this time have zero validity. He'll keep doing this everything he has a tantrum otherwise and Western leaders know. He's over played his hand I hope, he's so thick he won't have realised it yet. In the meantime despite claiming he would have energy cost household energy costs are up 6%. People in the States are beeing squeezed by his suicidal uneconomical policies.
looks like a pretty strong and united response from European leaders with even Meloni calling trump out.
To me this looks like Trump has crossed a line and is about to get found out
Thankfully, it would appear that the threat of invasion may have receded and not without reason - copied from elsewhere:
This a hole The US has 2 , count them 2 Ice breakers . Canada has 9 + muliptle on order, EU dozens more plus cold climate tanks, personnel transports, snowmobile units, cold climate planes and fighter jets etc…. The US has zero cold climate tanks, the new F35 are not cold climate , no personal transports etc… Without NATO , Canada, Denmark and the EU the US is incapable of flighting in Greenland or anywhere cold. The US military has been designed to fight almost exclusively in deserts.
Having visited some military bases in northern Sweden and Norway, there’s a level of complexity to arctic warfare that few understand until you get there - this is their day job, know their shit and ready to go. The US has only a single unit of arctic warfare specialists amounting to a couple of hundred, to invade and hold an island of 836,000 square miles…
Yep, just keeping stuff running is challenging and once you boots on the ground your not going be rolling the tanks down the motorway cos there ain’t any.
The logistics are a nightmare and you’d have to fly everywhere, when you could and then keeping stuff able to fly way more maintenance in that climate , requiring way more resources.
In between people who may be taking a pop at your transport when it does fly.
All the funky toys would be broken pretty quick.
Forget about leaders of the free world registering concern. Now business leaders are concerned. That'll focus his mind more.
What’s this PM announcement going to be then? Just “for the people of Greenland and Denmark to decide” paired with a bit of “buckle up for the ride economically”?
Or, as people have suggested it should be, a call to the people of the USA more generally, and law makers and keepers more specifically, to rein Trump in?
I can’t see it being retaliatory tariffs. And it won’t be “you can have Greenland”, that’s for sure.
Starmer said he had yesterday spoken to Donald Trump, European leaders and NATO's secretary-general to find a solution on the matter "rooted in partnership, facts and mutual respect".
LOL at facts and mutual respect. That's almost trolling the Trumpet
"Have you considered not being a complete bell end?"
There were a few cleverly worded comments. "Our long history" - yup, the US doesn't have much of a history, and most of then are immigrants !
Strong emphasis on the word FACTS I felt as well.
No real surprises. Tone was very much pro USA partnership, but strong red line on Greenland. No actual policy or actions (yet).
What is needed right now is a collective release from every living past president denouncing Trump's current actions. And not to pull any punches - a full throttle call to (virtual) arms of all Americans that that are being led by a dangerous insane narcist, with enough personal insults thrown in about 'destined to have a legacy as the worst president in history' to properly hurt his feelings. It needs to be not just an attack on policy but the wholesale criticism of him as a person.
Then.....every right thinking member of the US armed forces should en mass put in a request to investigate a possible bone spur issue - hundreds of thousands of them as an unambiguous link to Trump's own lack of preparation to fight for his country....without putting themselves in desertion territory.
Protests and statements from leaders outside the US is just flim flam.
What is needed right now is a collective release from every living past president denouncing Trump's current actions.
On top of that, I'd quite like to see the various international delegations turn up in Davos this week and basically just ignore the US. Walk out or read their phones when the Orange Shitgibbon is on stage, don't include them in discussions, mostly look the other way, occasional whispering huddles in corners with furtive glances towards US, etc.
All very childish obviously, but highly entertaining just the same.
From Trump's letter to the Danish PM:
Norwegian PM
Anyway - business as usual from Starmer - craven subservience to Trump. Best hope is that he will bore the Orange One into forgetting about Greenland
To me this looks like Trump has crossed a line and is about to get found out
I think Trump is confabulating. I reckon he's absolutely convinced in his own mind that Greenland is strategically at the centre of the defense of the US. There's probably nothing his handlers can do to persuade him otherwise. I will bet money that at some point one of his late night Truth-Social essays will be a rant about some 'treacherous' military apparatchik in his own govt 'betraying' their oath after telling Trump that there's no way the USA can either invade it or buy it.
The logistics are a nightmare and you’d have to fly everywhere, when you could and then keeping stuff able to fly way more maintenance in that climate , requiring way more resources.
Way back in the 70s when my dad was in the RAF they spent a couple of weeks on exercise every February in northern Norway learning from the locals
Greenlanders should count themselves lucky - at least nobody is proposing that Tony Blair and Jared Kushner should run their country.
It really is about the level you would expect from someone writing whilst pissed on a forum late at night.
Who has been quiet on the forum these last 12 months.....?
Norwegian PM
Yes, sorry.
I reckon he's absolutely convinced in his own mind that Greenland is strategically at the centre of the defense of the US.
Nah, he wants to go down in history for a huge land deal that enlarges the USA. The ultimate property deal, made possible through the threat of ultimate force. The talk of the "defence" of the USA is just to try and win support at home for his plan, and excuse it abroad.
I think we should clearly all be eternally grateful to Gianni Infantino. If he hadn’t given him the FIFA peace prize he’d have probably nuked every football ground in Europe by now
The talk of the "defence" of the USA is just to try and win support at home for his plan
There's been polls, and you'll be unsurprised to hear that just 1 in 5 support it. Even Fox aren't really cheerleading. I think you may be right about the 'ultimate' land deal though, that is peak Trump.
From Trump's letter to the Danish PM:
[ source ]
How do you satirise someone who is capable of that? How on earth can any American, of whatever leaning, look at that and not be deeply ashamed that their elected leader is a deranged toddler embarrassing them in the eyes of the whole world?
Words ****ing fail me. What an absolute ****.