[Closed] Green Laning (motor bikes)

oooohhh them TTR600's are a big heavy lump are'nt they 😯 i always found the XR's to be much more rider friendly, snakes pigs roo's spiders goanas and cattle, i nearly ended up on the inside of a big brown cow on one of the days, funny now but nearly pissed me strides at the time, Lol

Its pretty well sprung, ohlins allround but fairly archaic otherwise. No battery though so simple to fix...luckily. Roos filled my pants a few times when they ran longside then shot across the front.

I ended up to my waist in a water hole trying to get my water bag back. I thought it was croc free but the locals told me later it was the one down the road. Jesus. When I was at cape york there was a yacht on the wharf. the guy took his two dogs for a run along the beach each evening. One day he came back with one and he wouldnt go in after the stick anymore.

yup ... i was in tully gorge near the river one evening and i read a sign sayin beware of crocs and cassowarys, and i was only watching for snakes n spiders :O/
i got stuck in a sandwash on one ride and it took me Ages to get the bike out, i was sweattin me nads off and papping me'self so much i got bad dehydration, felt proper bad for a good few hours (got outta there first tho) Lol

Something like 3% of the rights of way network was available to motorized traffic but to some thats too much.

If that percentage is correct? I am shocked.

From the RA:

1. The (RA) acknowledge that under current legislation byways open to all traffic (BOATs) are available, as of right, to all classes of user, including those in mechanically propelled vehicles. We are also very aware that there are many other rights of way, either not recorded at all, or presently recorded as footpaths, bridleways or Roads Used as Public Paths (RUPPs) or, in due course, restricted byways which may also carry full vehicular rights. The RA believes that use of such unsurfaced ways by mechanically propelled vehicles is not appropriate in the 21st century. The primary reasons for our view are as follows:

(i) Unsurfaced routes cannot sustain use by mechanically propelled vehicles. Such usage destroys the surface and creates deep ruts and areas of mud which render routes either unusable or dangerous or unpleasant for use by other classes of user. (ii) The main reasons for visiting the countryside are to experience the peace and quiet it offers, but this experience is destroyed by the incursions of mechanically propelled vehicles into the rights of way network.

(iii) The activities of mechanically propelled vehicles can be intimidating and present physical dangers to other classes of user.

(iv) The presence and activities of mechanically propelled vehicles, and the efforts by off-road activists to open up routes for motor vehicles, disturb wildlife and destroys habitats.

For the "ban the motor bikes, they're not coming for me"... notice it says "Mechanically propelled", not motorised.

[i] notice it says "Mechanically propelled", not motorised.[/i]

Notice it says "Mechanically propelled" because that's the wording used in the relevant laws.
Also note that within the legislation a bicycle isn't considered "Mechanically propelled"

>notice it says "Mechanically propelled", not motorised.

MTB's are not mechanically propelled so not sure why you're making the above distinction ?

http://www.trailbikemag.com/forum/

allthepies - Member
>notice it says "Mechanically propelled", not motorised.

MTB's are not mechanically propelled so not sure why you're making the above distinction ?

My point is that the ROW network is being slowly shut down to other users by the RA. To think that mtbing is "safe" is obviously flawed, as they have already shifted the definition of who can use a green lane from motorised to mechanically propelled. I honestly believe that if the RA are successfull in shuting down the ROW to motor vehicles, mtb's will be next.

As I pointed out they haven't shifted any definition, the term "Mechanically Propelled" is not something they've dreamt up, it's the term used in all the legislation.
I honestly believe you're completely wrong, I see no evidence of them wishing to ban bicycles, what I do see is trail riders trying desperately to garner some wider support. Unfortunately, and despite the efforts of many good riders, there are alas far too many incosiderate ****ers on trailbikes for this to work now imo. And mtber's aligning with them will do us no good, as we've a got enough idiots on bicycles already 🙂

I feel that Tree is on the money.

Anecdotal, i know, but my dad (to my eternal shame) is a member of the Ramblers and he, along with all the people he walks with, are vehemenantly opposed to mountain bikes having any open countrside access.

Their arguement is that we now have had significant public monies spent on providing places to ride our bikes at the trail centres. They do say that a few more trail centres should be provided, especially in England, before it would be fair to ban us.

They even try to sound reasonable when i have discussed it with them - saying that they would agree to give up their right to roam on bike specific trails - thats good of them, isn't it.

Their arguement is that we now have had significant public monies spent on providing places to ride our bikes at the trail centres.

Well this thread has gone rather tangental! Thanks brainflex for actually answering my original post! 🙂

Not saying they are right, but this is their position, and I suspect that they (the RA) have a significantly better lobbying ability than MTBers.

No, I know, I'm just kidding around.

As I pointed out they haven't shifted any definition, the term "Mechanically Propelled" is not something they've dreamt up, it's the term used in all the legislation.

Incorrect. It was dreamt up in 2005 up to which point it was Motor vehicles.

Vader & Lawmanmx - those are my old stomping grounds - all over north Qld. You're making me homesick 🙂

its a great place to ride and no mistake :O)

yes, 3% is about right, down from 5% with recentish law changes and upgrades.

Other % are
rambling 100%+ (the plus is right to roam, open access, forthcoming coastal path etc)
horses/pushbike - 21%

Rightly or wrongly (*wrongly as far as I'm concerned as I've just got bargain Beta Alp) but it's a dying hobby, for a variety of reasons. In a nutshell if you put a lot of rats in a wide open space they're happy, if you put the same number of rats in a much more enclosed space they all start fighting. The UK ain't getting any bigger, however it is getting more populated .......

Mechanically Propelled Vehicles was added into the act to make it synchronous with the Road Traffic Act. Early versions of the Act used the term Motor Vehicles but it is felt that ‘Motor’ might become outdated when vehicles are propelled by things other than engines.

You’ll have to take my word for it. I jacked in work and spent June 2005 to March 2006 working on part 6 of the (NERC) bill, with other people, to try and hone the drafting amongst other things. Much of the work was done by a group called GLPG that was a group specifically set up to work on the bill. It included the Ramblers but also the CTC and the CLA as well as many groups such as the YDGLA and Friends of the Ridgeway.

There is no agenda with government to curtail the rights of cyclists in fact if you read the NERC Act you will see that cyclists have been given ‘new’ rights that they have never had, specifically to be able to claim public rights of way by virtue of previous use.

C

3% sorry thats shameful.

I feel green laners should have more access. Sure the illegal mx-riders give the majority a bad name but if only 3% is legally accessible what do you expect if you dont live near any area with such access (or enough)?

One may note that I was upset after I visit to Lee Quarry with mx'ers riding up the trails- thats because it was dangerous.

[i]I feel green laners should have more access.[/i]
They have, it's called roads.

Live and let live. I can't understand yomping over hills for fun however I wouldn't dream of restricting anyones access to it. Everyone has a right to the UK . Everyone.

Responsible access.

yup, its Everyone's world and No One owns it!!! .... anyone who pisses on anyone elses parade should be stoned ;O) IMO of course, Lol

Seriously if they are ridden on the 3% of permissive lanes cant the rest of you just be happy?

Now the YDNP have had to relax their restrictions I saw quite a few on Gorbeck Road (above Settle) today.

Having said that, I believe there is a proposed TRO mid section to create a non-through route for motor vehicles.

IanMunro - Member
I feel green laners should have more access.
They have, it's called roads

By that reasoning, cyclists have road access, why should they be allowed off-road? Why would cyclists enjoy riding off road?

[i]Seriously if they are ridden on the 3% of permissive lanes cant the rest of you just be happy?[/i]

I live opposite the entrance to a BOAT. If they didn't do wheelspins on the grass outside, fitted silencers that vaguely worked instead of congregating on mass revving them, and maybe occasionally showed a bit of courtesy to other people on the trail, I'd be sympathetic to their plight, but they don't so I'm not 🙂

hora - Member
3% sorry thats shameful.

I feel green laners should have more access. Sure the illegal mx-riders give the majority a bad name but if only 3% is legally accessible what do you expect if you dont live near any area with such access (or enough)?

One may note that I was upset after I visit to Lee Quarry with mx'ers riding up the trails- thats because it was dangerous.

I would expect them to ride their local motocross track, however, people illegally riding off road are rarely anyhing to do with motocross they just happen to ride off road and unfortunatly we all get tarred with the same brush. You won't catch people who attend motocross races riding illegally as if they have forked out thousands of pounds for a bike, kit, servacing etc (and in an increasing number of cases daddy has forked out hundreds of thousands on a motorhome!) they will spend their spare time paying to ride at decent practice track as oppose to a bridelway. Sadly your local chav with a pitbike might decide going down the local footpath is a good idea. That said as someone who regularly races MX and enduro I personally can't understand the appeal of green laning it's dull as ditchwater when compaired and not the best way to take in the scenic country side.

Iain

It's less than 3%, as I stated above, It's about 1.85% of ROW are byways open to all traffic or similar. But alot of that small percentage is obstructed (naturally or ilegally by land owners etc.) and alot of BOATs now have TRO's on them preventing anything with an engine going near it. Surely all the haters can survive with the other 98.15% of ROW 🙄

I personally can't understand the appeal of green laning

I can't understand MXing or Enduro- its scary! 🙂 Green-laning is probably liked by those who enjoy the more sedate-experience pootle of off-roading.

After all, you don't see the majority of mountain bikers hipping off doubles, hitting gnarly downhills or getting any sort of speed or air? Its about just getting out there 🙂

Is it the noise that people don't like? Ok, I can understand this. Its however short-lived as the rider is soon past you and as long as they limit their speed they aren't upsetting anyone.

Surely all the haters can survive with the other 98.15% of ROW

It isn't quite as simple as that though is it? I used to commute along a byway from my old house into work. Motorised use meant that eventually, large stretches were under 2ft of water for 5 months of the year. End result - byway rendered impassable for most users. In instances like this, do you think it sensible for motorised use to continue?

Arguing about the distinction of "green-laning" and enduro/MX is pointless because, when it's out in the countryside, no-one knows or cares, to the average rambler it's "bloody noisy motorbikes, they should be banned".

There was a group of about 12 I saw today out in the Peaks. No idea what type of bike nor did I care. As I passed through the same group of walkers that they'd just blatted through I don't think they cared about the type of bike either - they just didn't want them there at all.

Pennine - the good news is that Gorbeck will have it's TRO returned next week (in time for the Bank Hol). I would guess that there were extra 4x4s up there today as a 'last gasp'. I've just heard confirmation that Deadmans Hill TRO will start tomorrow (from Scar House Dam to Coverdale) for 18 months min and there were apparently hundreds of trail/enduro bikes up there today.

C

hora - Member

I personally can't understand the appeal of green laning

I can't understand MXing or Enduro- its scary! Green-laning is probably liked by those who enjoy the more sedate-experience pootle of off-roading.

Ha! Hadn't thought of that. Noise is a big issue with motocross tracks, we recently lost a brilliant facillity in winchester after perminant planning permission was applied for in which the facillity would be used less times a year than it had been allowed on the previous years temporary permission. It all boiled down to locals complaining about the noise, however, some people complained about it on days the track was closed! It seams the majority has a bad image of motorbikes in general and want to get rid of the pastime alltogether despite it not affecting them what ever you do to combat what they complain about they find something else.

Iain

Amos,

The best organisation to get involved with is the Trail Riders Fellowship - [url= http://www.trf.org.uk/ ]http://www.trf.org.uk/[/url] They are a national body who campaign to keep rights of way open to motorcycles, and also organise group ride outs in your local area. Some of them also compete in enduros, so will be able to give you advice on getting started! There is also an online forum on the website too.

As long as you ride sensibly with a well silenced bike, you should be ok. Stop / switch off your engine for horses though. I started out mountain biking and then decided to do motorbike trail riding as well, so that I could get out and explore trails further away from where I live. Its all about getting out in the countryside and having fun, whether on an MTB, trail motorbike or horse!

Oliver