[Closed] Greece closer to bankruptcy...

Well, they should never have been allowed to join the Euro in the first place. Greece is pretty much run on bribes, back handers and tax evasion. There was no way they qualified to join the Euro, they just ignored / hid / forgot about all the debts they were accumulating.

It's going to be very painful for the Eurozone (Germany) to take the hit and it'll cause carnage for a while, but I can't help thinking that they should be booted out of the Euro.

I can't help thinking that they should be booted out of the Euro

I can't help thinking that they should be booted out of the Euro

If the debt is spread around the rest of the eurozone, France and Germany...

It seems that everyone, with the exception of the politicians in the centre of this mess, knows that Greece must leave the Euro. What price will be paid by the Euro countries and the UK before the politicians actually accept the inevitable ?

The euro was always a political rather than an ecomonic project. They will print more money, create more debt, ruin even more lives before they are forced to acept the inevitable...

I can't help thinking that they should be booted out of the Euro

Not sure if that's the solution or whether it's really Germany that should be booted out of the Euro. Which one really has the economy that's out of step with the rest of the Eurozone?

TBH I think the banks are taking the p a bit here as well.
I would haggle them down to take reduce payments and an agreed % return. I would then have some serious words with the Greek people re collecting/paying tax. If they dont want to play along I would then cut them free and wish them luck.

What's scary as hell is listening to the brain-dead politicians in Brussels saying the solution to the whole shambolic, yet entirely predictable mess is closer European integration.

But of course it is! What, with the whole project going so well up to now? How could anyone possibly come to any other conclusion.

Good luck selling that to anyone outside the cloud-cockoo-land of the Euro Parliament building

I would then have some serious words with the Greek people re collecting/paying tax.

And wag a finger at them, that might work.

We could make them all sit in the corner and have a long hard think about just what it is they've done. That'll do it!

What baffles me is why, if no-one is paying any tax, the private sector isn't absolutely booming.

Imagine what bike you'd be riding/car you're driving/coke you'd be snorting if you weren't bothering to pay any tax

I suppose we could always threaten to wee in their shoes...

I suppose we could always threaten to wee in their shoes...

Most Greeks seem to have anti-wee sponges built in to their shoes

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I'd probably still have a little wee, even if I knew it was futile. 😡

Imagine what bike you'd be riding/car you're driving/coke you'd be snorting if you weren't bothering to pay any tax

Let's not forget that for the average Greek, this is a time of considerable stress and unhappiness. For all the anti-Government rhetoric in the UK, think for one moment how much more severe this is in Greece. European politicians simply dont seem to get this.

We're soon to follow as the austerity strangles any hope of growth. Green shoots? No, they're weeds...

Let's not forget that for the average Greek, this is a time of considerable stress and unhappiness

it is just payback time for all that living it up without paying their taxes...

Channel 4 news had a more in-depth look at what life is like for an average family.

They focusssed on one guy who was a tax inspector. His take home pay is 50% of what it was, prices have gone through the roof, and the government is imposing these apparently arbitrary new taxes on energy, property, anything really

The middle classes are seeing their former lifestyle sink without a trace.

The EU is screaming 'more cuts' as a condition for the bale out. I can't see how they can possibly cut any further without the country erupting into anarchy

TG - step back and really think about that comment.

TG - step back and really think about that comment.

If TG won't I will.

* steps back and really thinks *

I'd step back and think, but I'm leaning against the fridge with nowhere to go.

a united Europe is the only way the we can become a major world power once again, a country that spans from Lands End to Turkey would be the world biggest super power. Due to combined military budget.

Radio 4 this morning and a Greek polititon said the gov is not nearly doing enough. He said the plan to cut 30000 public sector jobs was really to let them retire early, like a few months early. He said then need to cut 100,000 a year for 4 years.

Sadly the polititions who should sort it cant because they want to win a elections.

They wont fix it, Germany will lend them more money, the EU taxpayers will pay for the debt.

Sheesh, this thinking business is hard. 😡

He said the plan to cut 30000 public sector jobs was really to let them retire early

Haven't the Greeks all been retiring when they're about 40 anyway? That being half the problem. WTF is 'early' retirement then? 25?

Sheesh, this thinking business is hard.

You managed the step back bit OK then?

I'm a pro at stepping back, me. 😀

Thinking, on the other hand...

Haven't the Greeks all been retiring when they're about 40 anyway? That being half the problem. WTF is 'early' retirement then? 25?

Hairdressers, waiters and others in arduous and perilous occupations 🙄 get to retire at 50 on 95% of their final salary

Surely, someone had at least an inkling that it was probably unsustainable? especially given that [if the income tax self declarations are to be believed 😆 ] Greece only has 5000 people earning more than €100k

Who'll be next?

Italy.

£1.8trillion of debt and growing.

This is really what Germany and France should be focusing on.

It's the people who flooded Greece with cheap credit who are largely at fault here. Greece should follow Iceland and Argentina's examples, and default.

Actually our debt is not the 75% reported publically.

This excluded our debt obligations for Interventions (QE), Public Sector Pensions and PFI's.

The real percentage is 167%.

We should also be focus on the UK !

So the only thing stopping us being lumped in the same basket is our attempt to balance the books - keep our debt rating AAA. So all those who moan about the gov not spending money to boost the economy may not be looking at the bigger picture.

Borrowing money to spend it in the hope of getting others to spend their money dosent seem like a sound plan to me.

I think some politicians got alittle carried away with 'nation-building notions'.

Could this be the third disaster in 100yrs for the German economy and people? When I read that Merkel had agreed the large backing from Germany last week I literally 😯

ransos - while that may have contributed to some extent do you not think its still the fault of the Greek gov ?

Afterall, if your sat at home unemployed and take up all the credit card offers that come through your letterbox, or buy a sofa from DFS - are you not to blame for loosing your house when the debt collectors come knocking - or do you get a loan from one of those payday loan companys at a zillion % to pay off the other loans or remortgage your house some more ?

Borrowing money to spend it in the hope of getting others to spend their money dosent seem like a sound plan to me.

Maybe not, but if you borrowed money in order to employ others who then buy things and pay tax?

it's certainly not as black and white as your statement, even if you were once a dive guide 😉

Hora - perhaps it will result in Germany bailing out Greece to the point they own the country 🙂

Or to buy things that someone has made, who then receive wages, who then....

Maybe raise the tax on petrol and diesel as that will bring more money into an economy with the moniker 'be more green/eco to save the planet'...

Whilst Brazil spends $400million on a new super-bridge connecting itself to the Amazon where they can start a new city...

Uplink - fair point, but is it not still daft for a government to borrow money when the GDP was so small compared to the debt ? They have no chance of paying off the interest let alone the debt.

It seemed like a very bad investment - it seems like they were buying the votes of the public rather than investing in their economy.

"ransos - while that may have contributed to some extent do you not think its still the fault of the Greek gov ?"

Partly, but if you were a bank, would you give a £200k mortgage to someone on the minimum wage? It's a general point that those lending money to people who may not be able to pay it back, in the hope of making a quick buck, should carry the risk if it goes wrong.

Interesting article in the financial pages of the Guardian

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/02/economics-debt-crisis ]Alice in Wonderland Economics[/url]

Just pointing out what most people knew. The single currency was never going to work. Germany looking to southern Europe for somewhere to invest its enormous trade surplus, fueled a totally unsustainable and unrepayable debt bubble

So its all the Germans fault for being good at making stuff. The bastards!!!

but if you were a bank, would you give a £200k mortgage to someone on the minimum wage?

I presume that the credit agencies we here a lot about had a hand in signing off the creditability of Greece?

His take home pay is 50% of what it was

or 100% of what it would have been if he had been paying his taxes...

That ever reputable company Goldman Sachs were employed, and paid a lot of money, by the Greek Government to cook the books

Its always the same names cropping up, isn't it?