[Closed] Gravitational Blackhole stuff?

I'm with Ton on this.

I see minor benefits in the realisation of a single goal, like Space Travel. All the spin off revolutionary and evolutionary engineering and biomechanics, botanics and shit..

But honestly..

You think finding Gravitational Waves was something New?

So you think we [i]didnt[/i] know light moves in waves, so too sound and now we're being told Gravity does too? And you think logically this is a [b]new[/b] finding, like we've never considered it or thought it existed before?

If you think some of us are unimpressed by this and think we're luddites, you can't be farther from the truth, some of us think.. Yeah, well logically I could have told you that, might not be able to prove it n shit, but like yeah...annnnnd?

I'd like someone to show WHAT benefit this has to Humans, now.

You can't link to a NASA webpage and say "fill yer boots" because all dat shit was done here on earth with human thought and application..

Also if someone says "space travel innit" then like Wow... how exciting.. Whilst his may happen in 50-100 years time for humans, as is the appetite isn't there for us to leave this planet and go habitat Mars or Venus. We don't take the time or spend the sheer amount of money on something like that and it won't change anytime soon.

So, whilst I think Science [i]a good thing[/i] I think the money should be spent on earth, making [b]this[/b] planet a better place for humanity and all that lives here, rather than spunk the $'s on some glorified Nobel Prize quest.. for sure thats all this will lead to.

They ought to get proper jobs.

and have a 😯 yourself for thinking we're in the minority or consider us as being thick.

The big project that does seem to be a financial black hole (ho!ho!) is the ITER project.

I recon at some point the car-park attendant will turn up one morning and find everyone has done a runner leaving a note on the gate: "Nous tres sorry but vous is dead right, it will never arbeit. Scusa ".

consider us as being thick.

err I am thick...but I do like good vfm...which I do not think space stuff is.

It seems a tad short sighted that we aren't spending more on research, but given attitudes like ton's are commonly held it's easy to see why.

It's ok, somebody's spending loads on it. I'm sure they will be happy to share once it's finished.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/clean-energy-hotter-sun-nuclear-fusion-test-china-hits-90m-fahrenheit-102-seconds-1542996

I think the money should be spent on earth, making this planet a better place for humanity and all that lives here

That's just a bigger version of "we should spend money on our own people first instead of refugees", and it's equally fallacious. The reasons we're not making the planet better for all humanity have little to do with a lack of money - especially not the relatively tiny amounts spent on pure science.

Besides, I know Jim Hough and he rides a Brompton, so he's all right 😀

err I am thick...but I do like good vfm...which I do not think space stuff is.

If you know you're thick, why do you believe in your own opinion on something you don't understand? 🙂

So you think we didnt know light moves in waves

🙂

Quantum physics is soooooo pointless.

So you think we didnt know light moves in waves, so too sound and now we're being told Gravity does too? And you think logically this is a new finding, like we've never considered it or thought it existed before?

Anyway, in my book knowledge beats ignorance any day. Even if I don't understand it.

...You think finding Gravitational Waves was something New?...

Understanding exactly how things work, not how you think they work is a good thing.

For a long time people thought it was moving protons in a material that created current.

Are you so short sighted that you can't see the potential benefits?

What if we work out a way to actually create a gravitational wave cheaply?

You could have flying cars. FLYING CARS. Who doesn't want that?

bikebouy - Member

But honestly..

You think finding Gravitational Waves was something New?

So you think we didnt know light moves in waves, so too sound and now we're being told Gravity does too? And you think logically this is a new finding, like we've never considered it or thought it existed before?

Good try, but you've got it a bit arse about face there chap.

Einstein predicted these waves back in 1915, point is that only now have we been able to develop the technology to prove that he (and General Relativity) were right.

Just because it was done in a lab here doesn't make it a/ of no value and b/ not a spin off from the space race.

Good science usually requires a theory / hypothesis and then experimentation to prove the theory and make it manifest. Occasionally people find things out that they didn't expect. Sometimes those things have higher value than what they expected.

One thing's clear - we won't find a cure for cancer by not looking for it; equally we won't understand our universe by not experimenting on it. And there has to be facility for both.

knowledge beats ignorance any day. Even if I don't understand it.

agree totally....but most of out knowledge came from bloke like Einstein/Galileo/Edison/Fleming/other great inventors.....who did not watch star wars and star trek.

agree totally....but most of out knowledge came from bloke like Einstein/Galileo/Edison/Fleming/other great inventors.....who did not watch star wars and star trek.

Newton believed in astrology and alchemy - that was the Star Trek of his day.

😆

Plus, Newton was the first to use the excuse of "my dog ate my homework" - so you see, practical applications 😀

ton - Member

agree totally....but most of out knowledge came from bloke like Einstein/Galileo/Edison/Fleming/other great inventors.....who did not watch star wars and star trek.

Hawking watches, and was in an episode of TNG.

Anyway, I'm going to spend the rest of my life searching for that parallel universe with me and Emma Watson.

Anyway, I'm going to spend the rest of my life searching for that parallel universe with me and Emma Watson.

Best euphemism for masturbating ever.

we're all standing on the shoulders of giants.
if you want a more recent original thinker how about arthur c clarke? certainly a mixed bag as an individual, but he was the guy who put forward the idea of satellites circling the earth to provide communications, among other things.

you can bet steve jobs watched star trek, and look how ubiquitous tablet devices are.

has anyone ask JayZ`s opinion yet, he is possibly an expert

Anyway, I'm going to spend the rest of my life searching for that parallel universe with me and Emma Watson.

Given the same physical model there's an equal chance of a reality in which you cop off with Ann Widdicombe!

Happy hunting.

For the people complaining about the finances of space exploration. It costs very little, NASA's budget is currently 0.4% of the federal budget (for comparison defence is 17%) and has been shown to have at least a tenfold net benefit for every dollar spent.

we've got 2 choices really.

either, we engage in fundamental research, or we stand knee deep in our own feaces throwing rotten turnips at witches.

either, we engage in fundamental research, or we stand knee deep in our own feaces throwing rotten turnips at witches.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957

What we've done so far will pale into insignificance compared to what Stephen H has planned.

He's just really good at keeping secrets.

[img] [/img]

bikebouy - Member
I'm with Ton on this.

I see minor benefits in the realisation of a single goal, like Space Travel. All the spin off revolutionary and evolutionary engineering and biomechanics, botanics and shit..

wow just wow

[img] [/img]

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

Oh well, if that's the case, we might as well all shut up shop and go home.

That's it people, there's no more advancements to make. Someone turn the lights off on the way out.

Oi, stop trying you.... You heard the man:there's no more discoveries to be made. They all happened before 1957, so you may as well give it up.

Shame. It was nice while it lasted: all those technologies, the increase in knowledge and awareness of our environment, the cross borders collaborations, the will to discover and expand our understanding. All for nothing, because Ton, and a few others said so.

only now have we been able to develop the technology to prove that he (and General Relativity) were right.

Technology, which is developing at a stunning rate when you actually step back, look around you and see what's going on!

The first part of this makes an interesting read:

[url= http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html ]http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html[/url]

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

Most of the great scientific breakthroughs were only considered great in hindsight, we don't know what the confirmation of gravitational waves will mean for us yet, it's just too soon. I'm sure there are physicists the world over that have ideas but these will only come to light at some point in the future.

Earlier you mentioned Galileo and there's a good example of how trying to understand something for the sake of knowledge led eventually to a practical application. Galileo was the first person to discover that the swing of a pendulum kept even time, he recorded that and moved on. A hundred years later that seemingly useless bit of knowledge was used to create the first accurate timepiece. That all happened because Galileo saw a swinging chandelier and wondered about why it moved the way that it did.

The cost of this is actually pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things $620m = ~£430m = cost of ~14 miles of new UK motorway

Don't get confused by the £ reference, I'm converting from $ to make it an easier comparison.

It's a tiny percentage of what we spend decommissioning nuclear reactors.

There are endless comparisons but in terms of what nations spend on 'stuff', it is incredibly insignificant, but massively significant in terms of our understanding of the universe. If people didn't study physics, you wouldn't be looking at a computer screen now.

As far as I can tell, they're trying to find a cure for gravity.

I know for sure Ton (and I) would benefit from that.

And if you think that knowledge is expensive...try ignorance.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

There was a fantastic Infinite Monkey Cage podcast a while back explaining all the current problems with General Relativiy. I couldn't possible hope to explain it, but the consensus was that there is a huge amount still to learn, as Relativity is no longer good enough to explain all the observations in the universe. There were of the opinion that SpaceTime would be revealed to be an emergent property of something else.

Some things are not statistics or divisible.

There is nowhere in the universe where a giant turtle is swimming through space with elephants standing on its shell & nowhere are you are shagging (a conscious) Emma Watson

There is nowhere [where] you are shagging (a conscious) Emma Watson

Is my mind not in this Universe then?

Even better, I'm actually making a decent fist of it.

What I find most amazing about all this is the fact that Einstein suggested this 100 years ago and we wouldn't even have been looking for them otherwise.

His brain was probably bigger than the combined brains of all of us on this forum...

If people didn't study physics, you wouldn't be looking at a computer screen now.

And as for that Gallileo, in one of his last publications, he not only demonstrated that the universe doesn't revolve round the earth, he explained why tides work and created early tide tables based on his astronomical observations. In a world driven by marine trade, that was a relatively useful thing. In return for which, those who didn't understand the work he did had him charged with heresy, found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment, even though there was no sustainable argument to back up the Aristotlean philosophy supported by the church. The sentence was commuted t lifetime house arrest. maybe that's the world ton wants us living in.

Ohh and my brother/sister-in-law both work in astro-physics over in California (they were leading the team doing the 'Space Shade' for Northrop Grummon that was recently in the headlines - although granted nowhere near as big a thing as this) that helps astronomers look at relatively dim stars by blotting out the glare from nearby brighter stars. So, by default, I am very fascinated by all of this stuff and how people can begin to understand the vastness and complexity of its very existence.

errmm I think most of the truly great scientific breakthroughs were well before 1957.

As you sit here at your computer on the internet.. again.. 🙄

Some of you lot take so much for granted...

I'm loving the gravitational waves stuff..
Biggest discovery of our lifetime..

It seems likely that 'bad vibes' being on someone's wavelength and medical stuff like Reiki, sound therapy and other stuff dismissed as 'woo' will become scientific fact..

In your face spirituality doubters!! 🙂

Well I love this sort of stuff too, and along with the Higgs Boson it is amongst the biggest breakthroughs ever. Without this I tend to think that what is the point of human beings and life in general if not to seeks a better understanding of the universe around us - or else we may as well press that nuclear button and take the shortcut to armageddon because that's where we're heading ultimately and without a purpose it makes it all pointless. The Earth is warming - so what - there will be no Earth in a couple of million years, maybe less. At least better understanding might lead to a way that human beings can live on earth without screwing it up.

For my basic understanding one of the things this does is to disprove Newtons view of gravity which is that it is an attractive force between objects. We now know it isn't. The true meaning of gravity is now a distortion of the fabric of space-time relative to the mass of an object - so a bit like stretching out a sheet, putting a bowling ball in the middle of it so it sags, then rolling marbles along the sheet so they ultimately roll towards the bowling ball - so not a force between the marble and bowling ball, but a distortion causing the two objects to be drawn to each other. So if you imagine our sun is the bowling ball, the planets marbles then that is how gravity is acting and causing planets to orbit the sun - the planets are moving at speed to maintain a constant orbit.

So when you get a cataclysmic event between two super-massive objects, like two black holes colliding - it is such a violent collision that it sends a ripple through the fabric of space time, like ripples in a pond when you throw a stone in, and it is those ripples we've detected.

As for the potential applications of this - well how does Warp drive grab you? Apart from that it is just another significant stepping stone confirming one small element of our understanding of a much larger universe. Another step in the journey. Also it means we now have yet another method to observing the universe - we have telescopes observing light, radio telescopes observing electromagnetic waves across the electromagnetic spectrum, and now the opportunity to develop telescopes that observe gravity.

oh, and dont even get me started on Higgs Boson and his collider thing......... 🙄

but I do like good vfm...which I do not think space stuff is

why does it have to be VFM? Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is a good thing.

"and now the opportunity to develop telescopes that observe gravity."

Its actually more akin to listening and is going to get more sensitive as the tech gets better

[i]"Light has some real limitations as a method of exploration. It's easy to block, can be warped or lensed by large masses, and has a limited spectrum on which to operate. Gravity, on the other hand, passes though the universe unobstructed and contains a wealth of data.

Plans are now afoot for a third LIGO detector to be built in India, to extract yet more information from newly detected gravitational waves; more – and better – designs will come along as engineering progresses.

"This discovery is akin to Galileo first looking through his telescope and seeing the moons of Jupiter," said Sean McWilliams, assistant professor of physics and astronomy in the Eberly College of Arts and Sciences and a LIGO team member.

"We are 'hearing' the Universe now for the first time, and given how much we have learned by seeing the Universe since Galileo's time, it's a genuine thrill to imagine how much we will now be able to learn by listening to gravitational waves."[/i][b]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/11/gravitational_wave_detected/?page=2

A video for your edification: