[Closed] Gordon's on his way then

Im not sure there was a rally/fall on any of the markets. The rumour was quickly quashed by No.10. My post on another thread was in jest. 🙂

if a week is a long time in polotics a year is time for a lot to happen.

Cameron cannot rely on Labour continuing to make mistakes. He hardly has a clean pair of hands over expenses himself nor does his party.

It would take a lot for Labour to recover but it is still possible to prevent a disastrous tory government. Make no mistake - a disaster it would be.

One thing struck me this morning is that having followed the political story closely for the last 12-18 months I like to think I have a fairly good understanding of the machinations, the horsetrading, cliques of allies and foes in the political picture which helps my understanding of whats going on behind the scenes in the rumours that come out before the leak to the BBC or the Telegraph. Think of it as having a wider vocabulary when reading a foreign language say.

But, in 1990 I was just 15 and certainly not interested in politics during the downfall of Thatcher. I wasnt then (and still am not really) equipped with the vocabulary of the dark forces at work behind the scenes from Howe or Heseltine etc. Even now when I read contemporary commentaries on the saga I dont feel I understand how things moved the way they did.

Make no mistake - a disaster it would be.

In your opinion, obviously.

The collapse of Labour is more and more coming about because of internal lack of discipline and authority from a Prime Minister who hasnt demonstrated much ability to carve a coherent and managed political programme over the last 18 months, NOT because of the odd expense scandal. As you say, both parties have much the same level of culpability in the expenses story, but it's Labour that will come off so much worse. The double edged sword of being the incumbent governmental party.

The collapse of Labour is more and more coming about because of internal lack of discipline and authority from a Prime Minister who hasnt demonstrated much ability to carve a coherent and managed political programme over the last 18 months,

Sadly all too true. He had opportunity and goodwill and squandered it.

But, in 1990 I was just 15 and certainly not interested in politics during the downfall of Thatcher. I wasnt then (and still am not really) equipped with the vocabulary of the dark forces at work behind the scenes from Howe or Heseltine etc.

I think this probably explains some of the more rabid anti-Labour/Brown views put forward on this forum. A lot of people aren't old enough to remember, or weren't working during the 1970's and 80's - sadly enough, I am.

bowglie - Member

>But, in 1990 I was just 15 and certainly not interested in politics during the downfall of Thatcher. I wasnt then
>(and still am not really) equipped with the vocabulary of the dark forces at work behind the scenes from >Howe or Heseltine etc.

I think this probably explains some of the more rabid anti-Labour/Brown views put forward on this forum. A lot of people aren't old enough to remember, or weren't working during the 1970's and 80's - sadly enough, I am.

Journalism (hawk...spit) has also moved on in the last 15 years.

BTW - do we really think he's going to give Alan Sugar a job?

Stoner - Member
BTW - do we really think he's going to give Alan Sugar a job?

Enterprise Tsar

FFS.

Oh, and John Hutton is standing down as Defence Secretary.

1019 No wonder Sir Alan Sugar was singing Gordon Brown's praises earlier - the businessman - who was best known for his Amstrad computers but who is now better known as the key man in the BBC television series The Apprentice - has just been offered a job as "enterprise Tsar", the BBC understands

Oh FFS. We are a nation who's government selection criteria: is failed footie club owner, failed company owner, successful property investor in a boom, TV star.

dum dum dum tsshhh another one bites the dust !! haha
Hutton bye bye bye

Stoner - Member

Oh FFS. We are a nation who's government selection criteria: is failed footie club owner, failed company owner, successful property investor in a boom, TV star.

He's a nice chap personally, however and has a fondness for cycling, so he's not [i]all[/i] bad!

Oh FFS. We are a nation who's government selection criteria: is failed footie club owner, failed company owner, successful property investor in a boom, TV star.

Oh dear! This 'enterprise tsar' thing sounds the like the same old nebulous guff that Thatcher trotted about the saviour of the country being 'entrepreneurs' (as if property developers and the owners of health clubs are going to enhance the countries export potential). I think all the main parties are as hopeless as one another in this respect though. A few months ago some research was done to find out how many members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet had science or engineering degrees; or had direct experience of working in manufacturing industry - They found a grand total of one! I would imagine that the same problem exists in the higher echelons of the civil service (degree in classics...my a**e!)

I'm glad Hutton is going - horrible bloke.

With all these rats leaving I'm actually wondering if there's more to all this.

He's a nice chap personally, however and has a fondness for cycling, so he's not all bad!

Null and void
[img] [/img]

I never said he had any sense of style, did I?

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/oh-for-christ%27s-sake-just-do-it%2c-britain-tells-labour-200906051805/ ]Meanwhile Britain's bookmakers have revealed multi-million pound losses after betting against someone in the cabinet having a pair of nuts.[/url]

I don't want a tory PM

You've got one. You've had one for years.
Selling school sports fields to fund tax cuts, making people pay to get educated, privatising whole swathes of the NHS, PFI/PPP deals which cost the taxpayer more for public services, going to war to win elections or because it keeps us sweet with America, introducing ID cards and doing it on the cheap. The Blue Tories can't win an election because the Red Tories are already there.

Selling school sports fields to fund tax cuts

I thought that was the work of the ultimate champagne socialist of all...the person who was that thick he was gagged in the lead up to elections.Mr "2shags" himself.You can't get more Labour than him.

[i]The Blue Tories can't win an election because the Red Tories are already there.[/i]

very very true
a hung parliament is the best we can hope for, and before people shout that would be disatsrous and lead to no laws being passed a lack of unity within government etc, just look at things now imho the major parties need to rethink how they are structured,

I have a real worry as well that if we have an election now cameron will sweep in without having to actually offer any policy whatsoever and especially not a concerted effort to reform the house, wages and expenses

a hung parliament is the best we can hope for,

In your opinion.

I have a real worry as well that if we have an election now cameron will sweep in without having to actually offer any policy whatsoever

Who did you vote for in '97, then?

Good point captain,as far as can see this situation is identical.Fony Blair never mentioned any specifics besides "change" back in '97 and let the Tories self destruct...sound familiar ?

There is a credible scenario for Labour to save itself. Doesn't even need a new leader now.

We need a few more weeks to establish exactly who did what in the expenses row. A large number of Labour MPs to be forced to resign their seats leading to by elections. Decisive action on expenses would go a long way. Outfox Cameron by actually being tough on the cheats not just talking tough

Then using the remainder of the time left in this parliament to finish the business of constitutional change. PR for Westminster and a better solution to the Lords. New man to fight the election for labour with a decent thank you and goodbye to Brown.

This should ensure a progressive coalition will continue in government rather than the conservatives.

Unfortunatly this would take political bravery and decisivness - something that seems beyond the Labourt party at the moment.

There is plenty of time to do this if the interests of the country are put first.

There is plenty of time to do this if the interests of the country are put first.

So, in that case, go to the country and ask them what their interests are, rather than simply looking for [i]"a credible scenario for Labour to save itself."[/i]

Well you see CFH - I don't believe the interests of the country are served by bowing to the moral panic stirred up by right wing media and I do believe that major constitutional reform would be in the interests of the country.

An election helfd now under first past the post would lead to a lndslide for the tories which I believe would be an utter disaster which would make the last year seem like a blip.

Sort out the expenses stuff first and constitutional reform then we should have the election.

So, the Guardian is "right wing media" now, is it?

Don't forget, TJ, you chose not to vote.

Don't forget, TJ, you chose not to vote.

Ah now, that's not fair! Not voting doesn't discount your right to an opinion - it might discount your right to challenge your MP on a broken manifesto promise or a policy issue but you're still allowed an opinion.

CFH - but that was MEPs - so I did promise not to comment on the Euro parliament but IIRC we were not voting for Westminster 🙂

The grauniad is merely meekly following the moral panic stirred up by the right wing media.

In all seriousness I don't believe that this is the right time to call a general election simply because the real issues would get lost in the expenses furore and I would like to weed out the fraudsters first - even if that means 100+ by elections.

"but you're still allowed an opinion."

but if you dont take the chance to express that opinion...

Im sick of all these politions who seem to spend their time playing politics to protect their jobs rather than sorting out the country.

We need economists, socialists, educators, financers, environmentalists, scientists, engineers, etc etc - not bloody politions running the country.

Rationaly they are the wrong group to run the country. The system is wrong, the people in it are wrong and we are wrong to perpetuate it.

Lets start with being able to vote for "none of the above"

Right, Im off now to the Bristol Bike Fest...........

Right, Im off now to the Bristol Bike Fest...........

Enjoy. I hope the weather's better than they forecast. I'm supposed to go up there on Sunday to give a few mates some mechanical and moral support.

"but you're still allowed an opinion."

but if you dont take the chance to express that opinion...

I know and I see your point. But not voting doesn't stop you having one. In fact, there's such a level of disenfranchisement I can hardly blame people for not bothering. I've been tempted myself, because it's the last vestige of a mandate that these corrupt eejits (on all sides of the house) have from the elctorate. So how about a mass "not bothering to vote" in the next election? Let's take the mandate away completely.

Hoon is gone - yahooooooo!

Far better off spoiling your ballot paper if you're that way inclined. They have to count those, and it shows you're actually bothered rather than simply being apathetic.

Far better off spoiling your ballot paper if you're that way inclined. They have to count those, and it shows you're actually bothered rather than simply being apathetic.

Aye, that's true. It's not a [i]really[/i] serious proposition on my part though.

There should be a "none of the above" option or "I think you're all a bunch of ****s" maybe but I'd love to see their reaction to a case of mass voter apathy...a real "we can't be bothered any more" attitude is what this country needs
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[i]Who did you vote for in '97, then?[/i]
yeah i voted for labour, i freely admit i was hoodwinked by that shiny smile and an mpeople song

Im now older and wiser and wouldnt make the same mistake twice

[i]We need economists, socialists, educators, financers, environmentalists, scientists, engineers, etc etc - not bloody politions running the country.[/i]

trouble is we do have an economist rnning the country but his lack of PR skills in our modern media age make people hate him passionately, its liek that fat singing bird, she can sing but she doesnt look the part so she gets dumped on

camerons got the slickness but he brings with him inbred silverspoon twits like osborne who will undoubtedly be useless muppets

camerons got the slickness but he brings with him inbred silverspoon twits like osborne

Or indeed like Cameron himself.

yeah i voted for labour, i freely admit i was hoodwinked by that shiny smile and an mpeople song

Im now older and wiser and wouldnt make the same mistake twice

There was a reason that everyone voted NuLab in 97 - 18 years of Tory mismanagement had left the country torn and demoralised. If anyone can look back over the last 12 years and show me what NuLab have done that is as bad as :-
Thatcher's war against the working class
Thatcher's 3.5 million unemployed (their figures)
Thatcher's dismantling of British manufacturing
Thatcher and Major's sell off of the family silver
Thatcher and Major's creation of benefit culture ( you know, all those chavs we're all quick to demonise )
Continued and cultivated civil war in the UK (Ulster)
Black Wednesday
15% interest rates
A second recession
A govt so arrogant that it told us to "get on our bikes " once it had taken everything from those who had least to give.

If Lord Snooty and his pals reach no.10, can the last person to leave please turn out the lights.

I'll have a go at some of those - can't be bothered doing the research for the lot...

Thatcher's war against the working class

Thatcher and Major's sell off of the family silver

Continued and cultivated civil war in the UK (Ulster)

A second recession

If anyone can look back over the last 12 years and show me what NuLab have done that is as bad as

Ok, starter for ten:

Invaded a sovereign nation that was no threat to us or their neighbours on the basis of a lie about WMD, with the loss of 179 of our finest!

I'll have a go at some of those - can't be bothered doing the research for the lot...

Thatcher's war against the working class

Tony's war on terror.

Sorry, didn't the house vote on that one? Didn't the Torys stand shoulder to shoulder, a united house and all that?

Zulu - don't forget the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead.

Fair comment TJ!

Iraq in no threat shocker. I was gutted when we 'invaded' I was going to buy a time-share in Baghdad

Sorry, didn't the house vote on that one? Didn't the Torys stand shoulder to shoulder, a united house and all that?

Didn't they vote on the basis of "evidence" given to them by the government in a certain dossier, mentioning a certain period of time...

...and of course "no return to boom and bust", the result of which was no saving for a rainy day either, just spend, spend, spend.