Why is he so hated by some? He has been a poor prime minister no doubt - but he seems to engender hatred far beyond what would seem reasonable and more than any reaction to any prime minister I can remember other than Thatcher.
So - can anyone explain to me why so much vitriol?
Because people have forgotten just how awful the last govt. was.
Racism?
Stupidty?
Probably because he hasn't got any redeeming qualities - like Tony Blair's stupid smile/grin
Because he has wasted billions upon billions of taxpayers money, via unelected quangos who destroy public services, awarding corrupt contracts to their crony friends in industry, while voting for an illegal war, anhilating personal freedoms via a bogus war on terror, and taking full credit for deregulating a fiat banking system, which has systemic failure built in, yet failing to take any kind of responsibility for its subsequent and fully predictable failure?
That's my starters for 10.
Well its a long story TJ but I would start with overseeing an economic downturn not seen for 50 yrs. A lot of people have lost a lot thanks to his economic policies - that tends to foster negative feeling. Plus despite all of Nu-Labour's cries of cleaning up Govt they are just as guilty as the last lot of sleaze & financial irregularities.
Simon Ralli, all of those comments could be also levelled at Tony Blair, and yet because he was able to grin like a monkey, it somehow endeared him more to the British public.
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....... what a ****
I think you'll find that Bank deregulation was under Mrs Thatcher just before the economy overheated at the end of the 80's, number of things done that led to previously unheard of issues arising including shockingly he economy overheating, and before you get there its like Pandoras box once you've opend it it can't be closed.
Regarding corrupt cronies thats a bit rich, given the documented history of Dennis, Mark and Carole Thatcher, and I beleive yet to be proven unlike the various things that the Thatcher family have got and still do get up to.
The bogus war on terror? The one that was supported by the chinless wonder and the self same one that the Tories are a wee bit quiet about for that very reason?
No responsiblity would be not trying to shore up the system. Personally I'd let the bastards go down myself, but I'm sure some economics waller will be along shortly to tell me how wrong that would be.
And I don't vote for him before we get to that bit. Just take a look at it evenhandedly.
Mass Media and someone to blame.
Personally I think everyone who's been in no-10 etc has messed up or done something dum.
I think its tradition in the U.K.
There are things Gordo had done great and $hite-you can't satisfy eveyone.
A wonderful combination of arrogance, lying and being an utter disaster seems not to have endeared him to the British public.
I have no idea why.
Another helmet thread
because he was placed into the job at least we can blame ourselves for voting Blair and his smoke and mirrors. We have had no chance to reply to the Brown goverment
I have always put it down to the fact that he was never elected by the British public and as a result he has always been on the back foot so to speak.
A wonderful combination of arrogance, lying and being an utter disaster seems not to have endeared him to the British public.
Can you think of a PM in the last 30 years that that statement wouldn't apply to?
Someone needs to blamed because they are incapable of admitting blame themselves.
We can blame everyone else before we blame ourselves, Politicians are the natural target as we can vote them out of power, but we must remember that we voted them in(this goes for whatever party) and we certainly weren't concerned about the unsustainable credit fueled boom when the going was good.
Forget blaming other parties for this countrys crisis they have been in power far long enough to correct previously incorrect regulations and coupled with the banks greed they have created today..... You cant pin any blame on Maggie and she had bigger balls than Gordon 😀
I am afraid the deregulation of banks and the seeds of the problems are exactly Thatchers fault.
I still say he seems to attract more hatred than either Blair or Major without being noticeably worse as PM
I see that there are still people in the UK who believe that we have a presidential election.
Anyway wasn't Major an undemocratic PM then?
Maybe its because he's not a "pretty straight sort of guy"?
Ask Clarkson.
Anyway wasn't Major an undemocratic PM then?
From Thatcher getting kicked out in late 90 to the April 92 general election - I guess he was
If the public, and not the labour party, had voted him in then I think it would lessen the hatred and some areas would put up and shut up. However, he wasn't elected by us and, to make matters worse, he bottled out of calling an election late last year, if the press are to be believed.
Because nobody voted for him to be there ?
Plus when the proverbial hits the fan you need a scapegoat.
WTF - MemberBecause nobody voted for him to be there ?
Just like every PM then?
If the public, and not the labour party, had voted him in then I think it would lessen the hatred and some areas would put up and shut up. However, he wasn't elected by us
We vote for a political party. As mentioned before we don't have presidential elections.
Forget blaming other parties for this countrys crisis they have been in power far long enough to correct previously incorrect regulations and coupled with the banks greed they have created today..... You cant pin any blame on Maggie and she had bigger balls than Gordon
I think you need to look at the the political ideology of the current Government and look at how close it matches the previous Governments, then you will understand what voters they were aiming at and why the economic ideology of a "light regulatory touch" was not changed and carried over from the Thatcher/Major period.
1) he feels ike we owe him....2.5% off VAT WFT??
2) the smugness
3) that jaw jut thing he does in between words when speaking.
4) He regulary posts what tyres treads
Enough said! TBH cameron is a sumg G*T too but would rather up up with him for 4 years than Brown of all of them only Vince Cable seems to be in any way credible!
Thatcher may have deregulated the banking system but did GB in any way do anything to curtail that? No. Thatcher's legacy is only part of the problem.
As for cronies? Labours got plenty - Mandy for starters..
[i]We vote for a political party. As mentioned before we don't have presidential elections. [/i]
That maybe so but IMO it 'feels' more US-like and presidential these days and, given this perception, people will associate a political party with its figure head rather than associate with a party as a whole.
I didn't intend to have a he did this he did that debate - its more about trying to understand why he is so hated when he is no worse and probably better as a PM than the last two?
I think Wookster is the nearest - it seems like its a personal thing rather than political
LOL @ all the punters who appear to be suggesting that Gordon Brown's low popularity is all down to the British public having some high-falutin principles about 'democracy' ! !
Is that the same public of which at the last general election more than a third couldn't be bothered to get off their ar5es and vote ? And in last year's local elections about two thirds of the electorate couldn't be bothered to get off their big fat ar5ses !
And anyone who didn't realise at the time of the 2005 general election, that sometime during the life of Tony Blair's government Gordon Brown would become Prime Minister, clearly wasn't paying attention.
It was pretty clear that if Labour won in 2005, Blair would hand over to Brown.
I think what may bug folk is the fact that Lab promised so much & for a while they delivered - it was a nationwide love-in. But to be so brutally let down (economic collapse) & lied to (Irag/WMD), well its just too much to take isnt it? Its the total lack of respect for the populace I think. Look at the HTR debacle - hardly anyone except BAA wants another terminal/runway yet the Govt seem determined to go ahead. They just dont seem to give a fek.
the English media hates a Scotsman running the country 8)
I think Wookster is the nearest - it seems like its a personal thing rather than political
That's correct, many people hold him personally responsible, the evil snake that caused them being cast out of credit/housing boom eden.
A few here MikeWSmith, El-Bent, are SPOT ON !!!, imo.
Of course, absolute power, corrupts absoltely. This is the flaw of democratically elected Gov, be it Lab or Con.
But this is only half the story, isn't it ??.
It is only my opinion, but the UK public should own-up to not taking enough interest in current affairs. Surely, under the democratic system, we are the "master of our own destiny" ???.
Someone voted these twits into No10 (if thats what you believe), either by voting for them, or by not voting at all, etc.
In 11 years, alot of poor decisions have been made. And that isn't a dig at NuLabour, the opposition carry some minor responsibility too. And, I believe that had they remained in power (winning the 97 election) then things would have not been much better.
But getting back to the U.K. voter. Lets face it, there are alot of people who "don't do politics/current affairs" and, most importantly, who do not vote !!!.
I believe that this is at the heart of the problems the UK has suffered with for the last 30+ years. People today don't seem to care enough to pay attention to what the knobs in London are saying. And given the amount of spin coming out of Westminster, I can see why.
However, I believe that each and every member of the U.K. public should consider it their DUTY to learn about what the parties are saying/lying/promising, and VOTE !!.
Its just my opinion, but if WE aint happy with the way things are, then its WE that should all take the time to find out whos promising what and to get off our ASSES and VOTE.
Too many people haven't a clue about current affairs and do not vote.
No, GB shouldn't be PM now, only after the house of cards has fallen, do we see what he really has done to us. I do not doubt his compassion for the poor or disadvantaged, or his concern for those less well off. BUT the way he has tried to go about re-dressing the "balance", hasn't worked.
Where he has lead us to, isn't good. Obviously he didn't do it on purpose, but we're here anyway, and I believe that he is not capable of bringing us out of the mess he permitted to occur.
We need a new PM. Q is, can that new PM, whomever he/she is "make the difference" that 21C U.k. needs
Solo.
[i]We vote for a political party. As mentioned before we don't have presidential elections. [/i]
Sorry, but that's bollocks. The whole political system is based on personalities, with the biggest ones being the party political leaders. Try and imagine a political party, just after a general election, chosing a PM that wasn't the one presented to the public... Impossible, right?
(And FWIW our US cousins don't vote for a president, either...)
To TJ, the OP: the hatred of Brown is probably more to do with the length of the current government more than anything else. I don't remember Blair being any more loved at the end of his "reign", and certainly Major was just as hated.
Is it not just as simple as it's all went tits up whilst he is at the helm and as such he is getting all the flak for it.the fact that he was not personnally voted in gives people the moral high ground in that they did not vote for him. IMO
Mogrim - I really don't remember Major being hated in the same way at all - laughed at usually or despised.
It just seems to me that there is more hatred of Brown than he merits.
TJ.
[i]"It just seems to me that there is more hatred of Brown than he merits"[/i]
To quote:
"deserve has nothing to do with it".
Solo.
He takes all the credit for the "good" years, announces the end of "Boom and bust", yet claims the current recession is "nothing to do with him".
Funny that, given he's been in charge of the purse strings for the past ten years. Nothing to do with him, ohhhhhh no...
EDIT: Major was funny. "More peas?" 😀
Apparently Brown was 'deeply saddened' by Jade Goody's death. Deeply saddened. That sounds quite serious to me. That's how I'd describe my feelings if my Grandfather died.
I don't believe that. So he's a liar.
Funny that, given he's been in charge of the purse strings for the past ten years. Nothing to do with him, ohhhhhh no...
Yep, I hear that the Americans are also furious with Gordon Brown for screwing up [i]their[/i] economy.
In fact the yanks are looking forward to the forthcoming G20 summit where they expect all the countries present to issue a joint statement expressing their outrage at how Gordon Brown's shafted of their economies.
Strangely enough, when it became apparent just how serious the economic situation was last autumn, Gordon Brown received a massive boast in the opinion polls 😕
I think you need to look at the the political ideology of the current Government and look at how close it matches the previous Governments, then you will understand what voters they were aiming at and why the economic ideology of a "light regulatory touch" was not changed and carried over from the Thatcher/Major period.
Forget ideology the fact is they have had long enough to change regulations - get in the real world not the ideological one ....
[b]Yep, I hear that the Americans are also furious with Gordon Brown for screwing up their economy[/b]
It may be a global thing, however the UK (according to the IMF et al) is particularly vunerable. Plus, Brown's managed to blow a national surplus (2000ish? Economic lag after the previous Government), into the uber IOU that we now have...
[i]Mogrim - I really don't remember Major being hated in the same way at all - laughed at usually or despised.
It just seems to me that there is more hatred of Brown than he merits. [/i]
I certainly remember hating Major - really hating him, his slimy grey countenance, his dodgy friends... (And the you'll have to explain the difference between "hated" and "despised" to me 🙂
Most politicians end up hated more than they really merit - but they don't help things by taking all the credit when the going's good, and blaming anyone but themselves when things go wrong. And that's pretty much par for the course for all politicians, regardless of party (or indeed nationality) in my experience.
It may be a global thing
Surely not - it can't be. Can it ?
Still, if he "managed to blow a national surplus", the Tories won't make any difference then.
Might as well leave him to clear up the mess ....
I don't recall the same amount of vitriol being directed at John Major. It seemed more like ridicule. Mibbe I'm splitting hairs.
Jimbo - Member
He takes all the credit for the "good" years, announces the end of "Boom and bust", yet claims the current recession is "nothing to do with him".
Isn't that supporting the argument that he shouldn't be blamed for the current economic situation?
I presume you mean he wasn't responsible for the good years despite alledgedly claiming to be. If that is the case then surely you can't then argue that he is also responsible for the collapse of the worlds banking system. I think you have to argue that the good years were down to him to be able to give him the blame for the current situation also. Think it through.
I thought this was a global crisis though?
I never really thought governments had that much say in what really goes on in the world, they pander to the big companies. True they can have some rules, but genereally bend to what the more powerful people do.
As evidenced by the change in US President (Clinton to Bush to Obama) and our relevant PMs constant friendship, regardless of policy.
Forget ideology the fact is they have had long enough to change regulations - get in the real world not the ideological one ....
Then you clearly didn't understand.
Gordon Brown: "We will need to do more to make sure banks put aside more capital during the good times so that they are better insulated from downturns". We hate him because he fails to acknowledge any blame for the current situation, and hence can't see the irony in that statement.
why he is so hated when he is no worse and probably better as a PM than the last two?
Any evidence for that assertion? I'm trying to think about this rationally, and really struggling to come up with anything he's done which merits such a statement (granted Major was pretty anonymous and presided over a complete break up of the Conservative party, but what did he actually do himself which was so awful?) I'm basing my opinion here not just on the last 18 months, but also the previous 10 years - I'll point out here that this isn't with hindsight, as I was critical of his policies at the time (whilst everybody else on here was still in the Labour love-in).
Sarkozy was (right wing) flavour the month not very long ago. Now he is on the floor popularity-wise. Big mistake to be in charge when a seemingly endless run of prosperity goes through the floor, totally against the expectations of the whole world.
But to answer the real question, we are now voting based on appearance. It's Kennedy syndrome - young, slim, full head of hair. Pick all three. Russkies of course don't get a choice, as ever.
I don't hate him but just thought there might be a better person around to do the job. So until the next person is in place I am afraid we are stuck with Gordon Brown.
It's odd here in New Zealand we have a new PM John Key, who is universally liked, well pretty much compared to Helen Clark (Labour) - there was quite a lot of optimism once he was elected, which i must say is a refreshing change to the cloud of pesimism that always seems to hang over UK politics, trouble is in the UK thou, who you gunna vote for, the only one i ever liked was William Hauge oh and Paddy Pantsdown cos he could swim up a torpedo pipe of a submarine and had an eye for the ladies.
It may be a global thing, however the UK (according to the IMF et al) is particularly vunerable.
Do you think that could be because the UK relies too heavily on financial services for income? - I can't remember what happened to our manufacturing, gas, oil & coal industries
No, really, I can't
lol. A post about Gordon Brown and it takes 8 posts to blame Thatcher. Not bad going.
I have worked with Gordo on a few occasions and he has always been nice, friendly, and quite professional. Probably nice enough but carp at his job. Some of the hatred must be a lot of the bad press he receives. He also has a comedy face so most photos make him look a bit stupid. This must make an impression over time.
On the flipside are there many big Brown supporters? Thatcher always had, and continues to have despite the usual tone on here, a lot of support so why's that? I wonder if Brown isn't perceived to have done much right? Not saying that's fair. Things did go well for some years after Labour got in but they were over spending then so what can be expected of them in these times?
It's odd here in New Zealand we have a new PM John Key, who is universally liked, well pretty much compared to Helen Clark (Labour) - there was quite a lot of optimism once he was elected, which i must say is a refreshing change to the cloud of pesimism that always seems to hang over UK politics...
That's what a lot of people in the UK had in 1997. Then they decided to illegally invade an oil rich country just because their best friend in America happened to have a score to settle, despite the biggest ever public protests against it.
Joe
I can't remember what happened to our manufacturing, gas, oil & coal industriesNo, really, I can't
12 years of government obviously isn't enough to do anything other than chuck money at the public sector.
yup - 30 years of destroying it means it'd be a very long road back to a more balanced & diverse economy - I don't think I'll ever see it.
I'm afraid I think he is [i]hated[/i] because he is ugly, awkward and has a pompous and boring speaking voice.
He deserves some fairly stern judgements on his performance, but as TJ said in the OP, the hatred is more visceral than that. I think it's to do with what he looks like. Blair actually looked quite pleasant, and Major just looks gently berkish, harmless and a bit comical. Brown looks awful: the jowls, the wonky eye, the bad hair, the solid fatness, the nose-picking, the awful casual clothes.
Neil and Christine Hamilton are hideous as well. Very, very easy to vilify because they are so unattractive. Archer by contrast always manages to look better.
That's what a lot of people in the UK had in 1997. Then they decided to illegally invade an oil rich country just because their best friend in America happened to have a score to settle, despite the biggest ever public protests against it.
well i don't think we are going to be doing any of that - do you! mind you we could always invade fiji and pinch their ice creams.
On the flipside are there many big Brown supporters?
There were before he became PM, when the economy was doing well.
Not as fanatical as Thatcher's of course - but he had a lot of respect for his "Iron Chancellor" reputation.
I think his dourness used to be viewed as strength of character, until he proved otherwise with his ridiculous flip-flopping after becoming PM.
There were before he became PM, when the economy was doing well.
Certainly there were but wondering about now. I do remember many commenting on the increasing amount of debt being built up by people and suggesting that might be a bad thing...curious that....
All you hate-spewers are pathetic. It's time you put down your daily rag and started thinking clearly and objectively about the problems and why people do the things that they do. He's just a man trying to serve his country. Incompetent, maybe; but not the Satan some seem to think. Because that would be just ridiculous.
It's just ovine bandwagon-jumping half the time anyway.
People in this country (not speficially anyone on this forum) really need to GET A F*CKING CLUE. This eagerness to pass judgement on that which they know absolutely jack sh*t about is true social poison.
ridiculous flip-flopping
Politicians can never win. That just isn't fair. If you say one thing everyone slags you off, if you say the other everyone slags you off anyway. If you change your mind, you're weak; if you don't, you're foolish and stubborn. People just DON'T F*CKING THINK!
🙁
Incompetent, maybe
It's that together with a complete lack of self awareness (that he has ever done anything wrong) which is the problem for me. Don't go accusing me of jumping on the bandwagon when I commented whilst he was Chancellor that his policies were unwise.
Apart from the damage he has wrought on the country by squandering billions on an unreformed public sector and his total inability/arrogance to either see when he is wrong or admit it its his pathetic insincere smile that he developed when labour spin doctors told him he should smile more that really makes me want to give him a slap.
uponthedowns - MemberApart from the damage he has wrought on the country by squandering billions on an unreformed public sector
Piffle - the public sector suffers from historical massive underfunding hence the problems with it and Labour has reformed most of it for the worse.
When the PM thinks that Jade Goody's death is a matter of national imporatnce and worth commenting on, then surely the man has lost the plot !
So Labour have been a negative influence on the public sector then?
I'm not even going to scratch the surface on Gordon Brown. New technology is constantly infringing on our human rights. Our right to freedom, go figure how bad its going to get now that a Government has realised what it can get away with in the name of 'counter-terrorism'.
Ontop of this no one voted for Gordon Brown. No one.
Ontop of this no one voted for Gordon Brown. No one
did he just turn up one day at parliament & tell the bouncer he was a MP - & he believed him & let him in?
D'you reckon the Tories will get rid of all the surveillance etc?
Ontop of this no one voted for Gordon Brown. No one.
To be strictly accurate, 24,278 did actually.
Whilst researching that, I've found the real reason people hate him
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They voted him in as a MP. If the question was posted to that sample section of voters on 'should GB become PM' - how many do you think would still agree?
[i]D'you reckon the Tories will get rid of all the surveillance etc?[/i]
Reread my post. Realisation of how much control a government can exert will continue growing in momentum no matter what government is in power in the future. Its the realisation that voters dont raise as much as a murmur in desent.
Oh, watching the Today show last week and the gags on Gordon Brown (saviour/world leader etc) had me cringing not laughing.
They voted him in as a MP. If the question was posted to that sample section of voters on 'should GB become PM' - how many do you think would still agree?
You need to lobby to change our whole electoral system then because that's not how it works.
Brown certainly isn't the first PM to get the job mid term & I doubt he'll be the last
If people vote for their local candidate because they like his/her boss, they need to look at it again IMO
It does seem harsh to say no-one voted for him. We all knew that the idea was for him to take over from Tone and no-one in Labour seemed keen to get in the way of that so take over he did. All very strange really but hardly a surprise to anyone what happened.
Spot on Aracer.
Piffle - the public sector suffers from historical massive underfunding hence the problems with it and Labour has reformed most of it for the worse
Balderdash- look at all the cash thrown by Brown at the NHS and yet we have the disgrace of Staffordshire- if that's not squandered money what is?
It's that together with a complete lack of self awareness (that he has ever done anything wrong
Ah, that's because if you own up to having make a mistake, the papers will tear into you saying 'he can't make up his mind, he doesn't know what he's doing, he's flip-flopping, dilly-dallying'. That's my point - the media are just raving lunatics frothing at the mouth so that we'll buy their spume-filled garbage.
Very damaging state of affairs for the country tbh.
Plus, has anyone noticed the fact that people complain and moan about EVERY SINGLE PM? Would you like to nominate a decent competent upstanding moral sensetive and skillful PM that met with widespread acclaim?