MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
sparked by the retirement location thread,
just wondering what the consequences of going over the 90 day limit in europe would be.
if we were on a europe wide cycle tour, where you can freely cycle from one country to the next without checks.
obviously if you were to come home you would get you passport looked at by the border exit staff at the ferry port. would it flash up then showing you time away.
would it be a fine ? jail ? or a travel ban ? any idea anyone
Travel ban is my understanding.
Passport stamping about to go digital so it'll be much easier to monitor stays
https://planetski.eu/2024/07/05/uk-skiers-urged-to-prepare-for-new-entry-system-to-eu-next-winter/
Depends on the country (and to some extent the political climate there), and how long you overstay. You become an “illegal immigrant”, which in some countries can mean a fine, in others forced deportation at your expense.
so in theory we could roll off the ferry in rotterdam, and as long as we dont use our passports anywhere on our tour, we could just keep riding around the whole of europe pretty much unchecked, and just suffer the consequences on our entry back into the uk ?
If that’s what happens, you’d be treated as overstaying in France, which IIRC is (in practice) only a €200 fine and no ban on returning (after the normal period). Get caught in other countries and it’s a different matter. Sliding scale of fines in Greece (cynically you could say they need the money). Other counties also have bigger fines (Italy, Spain), and can give travel bans, and if need be could send you home and make you pay the costs (Portugal, Austria).
Not really... you could be 'black-listed' if you over-stay, and refused entry into the EU in future.
Welcome to brexit. It's what 'we' voted for, to end freedom of movement.
Even if you have a valid UK passport, you need at least 6 months before the expiry date, as some older british passports were issued 'illegally' with extra months on them.
Thats why we have loads of chavs crying that they can't fly. They didn't understand what they were voting for.
But to be fair...I'd rather have fewer UK knob heads in Spain, rather than more...
Ah, Rotterdam… no idea what the Dutch would do on your return.
Go and return via Ireland? I was told a couple of weeks ago by a cycle tourist his passport had not been checked into France or out again. You certainly don't get checked going UK - Ireland.
A gamble?
And @tjagain made that trip last year.
Belgium seems to be 200EUR as well but I can't see you being hit with that as it would be at the point you are leaving the schengen area. Interesting question really. If you are only planning on going a few months over then limit then you could just apply for an extension although it does look like you need to do that per country 🙁
https://www.axa-schengen.com/en/schengen-visa/visa-extension
That axa link seems to imply a few hundred eur fine and maybe a ban for a few years. Seems ok
What would happen when/if accommodation checked your passports past the six month entry date?
Just check what might happen in the future. Ie - if you fly to Greece in 3 years time and they can see you previously overstayed will they let you in?
I had difficulty getting into Croatia because they could see on my passport that I'd entered the EU via Amsterdam the year before but as my passport wasn't stamped when I left via Calais thought I'd overstayed. I'd had several European trips in the meantime where this hadn't been noticed / wasn't an issue.
Depends how joined up it is, I guess. So you now have to have residence in order to get a job here, for instance, and I've certainly been to countries where checking into a hotel with invalid paperwork would have the police knocking on your door in half an hour. The technology to implement it certainly exists, it just needs the will/desire to do so.
*90 days, btw, not sure where I got six months from.
It’s not just border control. What if police stop you, ask for your passport, notice you’re over the 90 days. Could you end up arrested as an illegal immigrant?
so in theory we could roll off the ferry in rotterdam, and as long as we dont use our passports anywhere on our tour, we could just keep riding around the whole of europe pretty much unchecked, and just suffer the consequences on our entry back into the uk ?
Don’t forget that you can be stopped in any country and they can inspect your passport.
Be interesting to see what you got if they find it over 90 days and you’ll be at the mercy of whatever the countries policy is on this.
I think Spain have a fine between 500€-10,000€ depending on how long . A fine could also be issued in conjunction with an entry ban.You could be banned from re-entering for up to 5years.(depending on the case and scenario)
I’ve not heard much in Spain around overstaying.
IMHO as a cyclist they are less likely to pull you over to check your papers as they are in a car but they can still ask for them and if you got involved in any road incidents and the police are involved even if it’s not your fault they are going to be looking at your passport which is when the fun will start.
(I’m well over 1000+ days on overstay 🙂
I know of a few who've overstayed in Sweden. It's a fine (few thousand SEK), repatriation at your own expense and (usually) a 2 or 3 year entry ban.
Try and get in again/get caught again and the fine goes up and the ban gets longer, up to 10 years.
Plan a route that takes you out the Schengen area after 89 days, come back in to reset the clock?
That’s not how it works.
Try and get in again/get caught again and the fine goes up and the ban gets longer, up to 10 years.
Its almost as if they treat it as deliberately breaking their laws rather than the stw I fancy a holiday that suits me mindset it really is - weird!
The 89 day loophole is covered by the 90 days in any 180 days. Leaving doesn’t reset your 90 days.
Should have known the EU was cleverer than me.
It can get a bit complicated calculating the 90/180 if you are making multiple visits to the EU. We tend to use one of the online calculators just as a sanity check.
https://www.visa-calculator.com/en/
Before Brexit I travelled round Europe for 100 days, continuously. It was all on foot and public transport via channel ferry out and back
When we got back to UK passport control they scanned my passport and knew exactly how long I had been away and quizzed me on my departure date. It seemed more curious than sinister, but they definitely knew
You'd imagine the Frenchies have a similar system, but I don't know
Ireland isn't in the Schengen zone so passports should be checked on entering from there.
Here's a handy guide:
https://www.thelocal.fr/20210331/reader-question-what-happens-if-i-over-stay-my-90-day-limit-in-france
There could be a ban from returning to the EU, but with everything there is a chance to appeal.
With an appeal you get an opportunity to put your side, and maybe roll out some sort of excuse that you hit mechanical problems and there was a delay on getting spare parts and thats why you were held up(obviously depending on how long an overstayer you are.
The EU are pretty pro cycling, so they would have more understanding and perhaps more sympathy for such a situation.
The other thoughts, when you enter the EU do you have documentation for when you are leaving? Can you prove you have sufficient funds. If you don’t have a ticket out you might be refused entry on day 1. If you have a long stay then you better have lots of money or the same situation.
I find it hard to believe it doesn’t make travel insurance impossible. Because you’re asking an insurer to cover something that isn’t legally possible. I suspect that if you needed big health care tyres notice
But that’s a gamble not a certainty
Silly question, but is there not some sort of visa to cover it?
Italian police passed through the carriage and did an ID check of passengers on the train we were travelling on in April. Passport was scanned and presumably checked for things like how long we had been in the EU. Wouldn’t have liked to be over the 90 day limit in that situation.
Just to be clear, they will treat you as an illegal immigrant because you are an illegal immigrant. I think things will get a lot trickier after 90 days if you need to use the police, hire car insurance, healthcare etc etc etc. I've had people coming from the UK for work refused entry because of paperwork problems, and also get a preemptive phone call to point out their papers are going to expire soon. What will happen if you're leaving at the channel after 92 days is one thing, there are other scenarios as well, and I don't think being a nice old bloke from the UK is a get out of jail card.
Even if you have a valid UK passport, you need at least 6 months before the expiry date, as some older british passports were issued ‘illegally’ with extra months on them.
Both of these are incorrect. The validity after departure must be 3 months or more, the passport must have under 10 years validity remaining on entry to EU/Schengen. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm
Well i’m going to try that UK-Ireland-France trick! Ive been Liverpool-Belfast and Stena line insisted on seeing my passport, although it’s all part of the UK. It always used to be the case if you turned up in a small yacht or private airfield, passport checking was pretty lax.
There’s a common travel area between the UK and Ireland which means you don’t need to show your passport or have it checked, though in practice I think they want ID.
I’d be surprised if when you roll off the ferry in e.g. Cherbourg you don’t have to go through some sort of passport check there where it will be stamped.
I think you need to cross the NI / Ireland land border to avoid a passport check. so ferry Scotland / NI. Maybe?
the Ireland / france border is not schengen but neither is it the external EU border so I think its just a cursory check / spot check
But only one way to know
So what are the travel restrictions for non-Schengen European countries or even Switzerland?
Could a "big European tour" be arranged so that the total time outside the UK was > 90 days but enough time is in non-Schengen countries for it to not be a problem??
I assume non-Schengen countries each have their own limits and visit time in other countries is irrelevant. Correct?
As said, the penalty depends where you are when you get found out. e.g. The Netherlands https://ind.nl/en/entry-ban
With the introduction of the ETIAS, I think a few days' over would be a hand-slap, but an egregious and intentional overstay could be a black card for ETIAS going forward. As many have said, you become an illegal immigrant. You need to consider the cost if you were found and deported at your cost. You also need to read the T&C of your travel insurance very carefully and understand GHIC won't count once you overstay.
When you travel from RoI into Schengen, your passport will be checked, and the passenger manifest will log when you've entered Schengen.
Honestly, I realise unpopular opinion, but the arrogance thinking it's somehow justifiable boils my wee.
I want to travel around southern and East Africa for several months. I cannot re-enter South Africa after 90 days without returning to Europe. It means we'll have to pick a route and timings based on visas and we'll spend £ thousands more shipping a car in and out of different countries. But they are the rules and we'll work around it. Spare a thought for most other human beings on the planet. We chose to have our freedoms removed. My Indian colleagues have to visit an Embassy in person for virtually every country, and Schengen might give them just 2 weeks even if they've asked for a month. Tough shit.
What about insurance?
Would you be invalidating that if you exceed the 90?
@tjagain We got the ferry to Caen about a month ago and everyone had to go through passport control. I assume if you’ve EU/EEA/CH then they do a cursory check, otherwise it’s a proper check and stamp.
Could a “big European tour” be arranged so that the total time outside the UK was > 90 days but enough time is in non-Schengen countries for it to not be a problem??
Possibly, which non-Schengen country? You’d have to get your passport stamped when passing out of the Schengen zone then stamped again coming in.
Its hard to think of anything that has ever been done to the citizens of the UK that is as egregious as brexit. All I can come up with is the Enclosure Acts and they were (mainly) in the 16th Century.
But hey, remoaners just get over it
We chose to have our freedoms removed.
Aha. At last, someone has owned up to it . Just need to find the other 24,375,421 muppets who also did...
lol. I'm also immensely annoyed at Brexit. It is devastating. But a load of retirees taking the piss isn't going to do any favours to anyone. I'll stand by my notion, it's privilege that enables anyone to even contemplate overstaying their visa-free entry. We are still, even after Brexit, immensely lucky to be able to travel as freely as we can. Don't do something stupid and affect the upcoming generations' opportunities to do the same.
I checked a map of shengen countries. Basically there is a block round croatia and that’s it.
I think I’d just fly back from my furthest point and fly back 90 days later. Possibly finding some where to leave my bike
It’s not ideal but it’s where we are
You can do 90 days in Morocco from Spain if you want to do longer out of the UK. So do 90 round Europe short ferry to Morocco for 90 days then back to Europe for another 90 if you like.
With an appeal you get an opportunity to put your side, and maybe roll out some sort of excuse that you hit mechanical problems and there was a delay on getting spare parts and thats why you were held up(obviously depending on how long an overstayer you are.
The EU are pretty pro cycling, so they would have more understanding and perhaps more sympathy for such a situation.
Personally I don't fancy trying your or my luck on them being that understanding.
The other thoughts, when you enter the EU do you have documentation for when you are leaving? Can you prove you have sufficient funds. If you don’t have a ticket out you might be refused entry on day 1. I
They're legally obliged to let you in whether you have a ticket for your return or not.
Same as the GF can travel to the UK without a return ticket/leave date. (was fun going through UK customs at the Tunnel last time.... "how long do you plan to stay?"
"no idea"
"when are you leaving?"
"no idea"
"what's the purpose of the visit?"
"ask him" (me)
"drive over to the left, please....")
If you fancy a three month tour of the Balkans, Türkiye or Morocco every three months it's doable. I guess you could go to Gibraltar, but, tbh, a day is enough there.
Met a couple in a van a few months back and they were on their way to Ancona, ferry to Greece and then onto Türkiye for three months, but they had to hurry because getting to Türkiye meant travelling through Greece and they only had two weeks. (met them near Florence. They had been to France, a bit of Spain and northern Italy in about 2,5 months.... Sounded like a really shitty way to travel dashing from one place to another.)
There could be a ban from returning to the EU, but with everything there is a chance to appeal.
With an appeal you get an opportunity to put your side, and maybe roll out some sort of excuse that you hit mechanical problems and there was a delay on getting spare parts and thats why you were held up(obviously depending on how long an overstayer you are.
The EU are pretty pro cycling, so they would have more understanding and perhaps more sympathy for such a situation.
Errrrr, the two most recent cases I know of, both of them appealed based on them having *entire families, jobs/companies and houses* in the EU.
One is still in progress, he had to jump through loads of hoops to just get his travel ban overturned. So he's on the 90/180 at the moment. And not allowed to work here, while he tries to get some sort of residency sorted.
The other tried to sneak in over a land border and is now having to move his entire family to the UK. Which is another disaster area that I'm glad i know very little about. I suspect that he'll end up divorced, as the whole thing was stupidity based.
Both of them could have filled in a simple form and applied for residency in the aftermath of Brexit and none of this would have happened.
Depends on the country (and to some extent the political climate there), and how long you overstay. You become an “illegal immigrant”, which in some countries can mean a fine, in others forced deportation at your expense.
I have heard of countries where the locals go utterly insane and try to torch your hotel along with their own Library's and Police cars when they hear about “illegal immigrants”...
Apparently you can apply for an extended Visa in the Schengen area, but it has to be based on exceptional circumstances such as unexpected, prolonged medical treatment, a natural disaster or a War breaking out in your country of origin. Mostly things outside of your control that you don't really want to be the reason for an extended stay.
TBH I'm not rich and/or retired enough for this to really be a problem for me any time soon, hopefully all the buffers that voted us out will have carked it and we'll be asking (politely) to re-join the EU by the time I'm approaching retirement or dreaming of a second home in Provence and/or pedalling around Europe for more than 3 consecutive months...
Why do you think they are obliged to let you in? If they think you are seeking work illegally, for example, do you think they will let you in?
They are absolutley not obliged to let you in...
If you are obviously a tourist, can show accomodation, return flight,have travel cash, etc. your unlikely to have a problem as long as you have enough time on your passport.
if you rock up travveling alone, with a one way ticket, no bagage, no proof of accomdation etc, you are more likley to have a problem... it is rare, but it's something to be mindful of.
Flying from Scotland to Dublin involves passport checks at both ends, each way.
The Europe.... Spain..... Morocco....Europe idea looks good.
Is that a legal way for 270 days out of this shitehole ?
Yes i think so
There were no checks (beyond a glance at the photo) or stamps on our passports in or out of the UK on a recent trip. But we'd filled in the on-line forms for the ferry companies before travelling so the authorities know exactly which side of the border we are and for how long.
Nothing for hotels etc to see though so I wouldn't worry about that.
Dutch customs pulled about 3 cars out of the queue for cursory checks. French customs worked non-stop for an hour. Everything in our car except the bikes got pullled out and X-rayed.
Yes Ton. It's something the motorhomers do.
Does anyone know how this shakes out if you're a resident in an EU country (Spain, in my case)?
My dream was to sail around Europe in a (cheap) yacht but that's probably unrealistic now even with my Spanish residency unless I, of course, stick to Spanish waters (not too bad, although the 3k I spent on my tickets is worthless now as they're no longer recognised in the EU).
However, I was thinking of buying a van, so presumably no one really knows how long I've been in France if I drive there from Spain? I think I'd mostly reside in Spain anyway because I love it there, but always wondered if being an EU resident afforded me any additional rights beyond those I'm entitled to in my host country.
Fatmountain, you get 90 days in the rest of Shengen outside your host country. Odds of being caught low.
However, you might want to apply for Spanish nationality. While the process is going on it's best to stay in your host country and be easy to find when the police do their checks.
Dutch customs into ijmuden two years ago checked every car.
Fatmountain, you get 90 days in the rest of Shengen outside your host country. Odds of being caught low.
We also don’t have the 180 day bit so pop back into spain or it’s territory to grab some petrol and a receipt and your 90 days is reset or a quick cheap flight 🙂 if you want to adhere to the letter of the law.
Even with a full EU passport there’s that countries requirements if you want to stay in another country for over 90 days.
May be no borders but there’s anpr so you can’t assume that they don’t know.
The Europe…. Spain….. Morocco….Europe idea looks good.
@ton also consider 90 days in Turkiye.... Really cheap right now, too.
However, you might want to apply for Spanish nationality
This is what I would do.
If I hadn't got German citizenship and went with residency, then I would not be able to travel like I can now. And the idea of being "trapped" in Germany wasn't an idea I wanted to entertain.
They should determine whether you voted Tory or reform, and if so send you to Rwanda at your own expense (= about £250 million based on the costs the Tory gov pissed away to ship 4 people there)
Just to expand on my previous comment quoting my sources 🙂
We also don’t have the 180 day bit so pop back into spain or it’s territory to grab some petrol and a receipt and your 90 days is reset or a quick cheap flight 🙂 if you want to adhere to the letter of the law.
4. Freedom of movement and residence are granted, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, only for certain categories of third-country nationals, i.e. long-term residents, highly-skilled workers, researchers and students. Whilst third-country nationals who hold a valid residence permit or visa have the right to move freely within the Schengen area for up to three months within a six-month period, the rights in relation to taking up residence for a period exceeding three months in another EU Member State are covered by specific legal instruments, depending on their status, and subject to conditions in national legislation.
A mate did a ski season a few years ago. Not working but did have a visa to stay over 90 days. He had to go to the French embassy in London. Prove he had the funds and told them where he was planning on staying. He did have to go back in person to collect the visa and pp a few weeks later as they refused to post it but hey, he did December to April. Nobody checked where he was in that time.
Yup, the French love in person interviews. Back to the OP though… if doing a tour, which countries would you have to apply to, and how cumbersome are all their processes?
My cousin is currently looking into getting herself a digital nomad visa to aid her travels. She recently retired from teaching and bought herself a camper and plans to take off around Europe. She still does a bit of some sort of online teaching in Japan that provides a small income and should apparently let her qualify for a digital nomad visa in some countries and help her bypass the 90 day rule.