[Closed] Going back to the Office...

Ask to see their H&S docs for the back to work procedures. Any reasonable employer has to take your health into account. If you have a pre-existing condition then discuss it with HR

Does the asthma not put you into shielding?

I'm going back through choice but have good physical health and hope being in the office will help mental health.

Does the asthma not put you into shielding?

That's what I thought when I filled in the Covid policy forms, my manager (who's very good & pro-active) will be checking with HR.
I shall also check, if I don't like the answer.

I don't want to fall out with them over this as I really enjoy my job & working with the rest of team. But...
Ultimately it's my health & welfare.

We are going back on a 1 on 3 at home rota September 1st with no view to full attendance till next year.

Does the asthma not put you into shielding?

Not automatically, depends on the severity and what you take. I am officially shielding until Sept 1st due to it (although i'm not, just being sensible).

What sort of rota basis? I am WFH and have been since March & will continue to do so for the short-medium term future. We do arrange to all be in on Tuesdays as a leadership team & that's become a routine - as we have a forum catch up on all business matters.

CoVid or not, I don't see this changing in the future now anyway. my boss, the MD retired a few months ago & our new MD is a lot more progressive, so the demand to be in all the time for the sake of it, isn't there any more & I for one am really enjoying the change - I am used to it however due to past roles.

You could always have an off the record chat to discuss it as a more permanent change? With all the talk of a second wave, i'm amazed businesses are pushing to do this right now anyway - we're planning on making our remote working more robust and widespread rather than reacting as before. Bring people back in now, seems weird.

Well I'll likely be facing a similar question in a few weeks time, although my restriction will be based on medication rather than the condition itself, so if that comes up I'll be saying no to coming into the office. I've worked from home since March so it's clear that I can continue to do so . I'm also in Scotland and from what I can tell the advice from the Scottish Government is a bit "clearer" than anything coming out of No 10.

We've been told October at the earliest before we're back. There's a mix of people at the moment - some who really miss the social aspect and want to be in a structured work environment, others who would happily never go back!

Re "WWSTWD?", I'd ask to see their H&S policy and get a written copy of their sickness policy (ie how they treat shielding / self-isolation / display of symptoms vs actual "I'm ill") plus whatever local / in-house track and trace system they have. All it would take is one person contracting it for the whole place to be shut down again, potentially disinfected, and for everyone who was in the office to then end up self-isolating for 14 days so it's a very significant step.

No plans to let us to go back in the office, despite HMRC who we share it with having put in all the H&S changes as their staff have been in throughout

We are being asked if we're prepared to go out and inspect other premises for work though, which is a bit counter intuitive 😄

I've been in our office twice. Me, 3 front of office staff, 1 other Partner on a floor plate for 600 people. It was strongly suggested that I did not ride my bike around the office floor !

We've been told not to expect to be in an office until next year at the earliest.

We've had staff in right through dealing with the COVID reponse, albeit much smaller numbers. Likely the majority won't be back before Sept at the earliest and then only those that have to be for critical functions. Apparently we have space for 1/3 of staff in our offices with social distancing in place. Looks like I'll rarely see the place.

Seems a bit bizarre your company is pushing people to return to working in the office if they can WFH

Hopefully they see sense as you're asthmatic and delay your return (although just in time for the winter second wave...).

The company I work for are being a lot more cautious, I need pre-approval from a VP before I can travel to the office and then also need to have sent a form (for each visit) to our facilities management helpdesk. They really don't want people to return for the foreseeable future unless there's a valid business reason they need to.

The was some advice on the gov website about the requirements for making workplaces covid secure for returning shielded workers but it seems to have disappeared. Will look a bit more tonight

Seems a bit bizarre your company is pushing people to return to working in the office if they can WFH

They are following all the guidance etc... It's got to the point where we are starting to need a presence on site, however I personally feel it's a bit soon, especially when I can work from home.

We’ve been told not to expect to be in an office until next year at the earliest.

same

Isn't support for shielding meant to be withdrawn by the end of the month. i.e. shielding is over?

I'm not envious of your situation especially if you can work at home. I've been shielding (just being sensible such as not going in buildings that aren't my house rather than hiding indoors) but no plans to go back into the office yet and we're as effective as before so would not see the point being there full time again.

I'd like to go in a day per week though at some point to see my colleagues but our usual office capacity is basically 8 desks from our previous 40 so it would be just my team on that day.

What concerns me is, despite hand washing, the disease is horribly airborne. If there is a second wave this autumn/winter as some say we may all be heading back into the office at precisely the wrong time. I guess that's when to assess it

Seems a bit bizarre your company is pushing people to return to working in the office if they can WFH

We have people that are literally not working from home - e.g. doing about 30 mins work in an 8 hour day.

Admittedly, it's rare, but it is happening so I can see the reasons for it.

Also, this - https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lockdown-work-from-home-fatigue

As joefm says the current advice in England is that shielding ends at the end of this month, maybe HobNob is in either Wales or Scotland where their advice is different.

We've been told we won't be looking to go back on a rota basis until September at the earliest and that rota will be worked out based on things like those of us at risk and people with childcare. My manager reckoned January before it would be more on a 'normal' level.

I do share your anxiety with going back and if I got told I was going back at the start of August I'd be fairly bricking it at this point.

Our workplace has five categories of staff, from needs to be on campus, to not on campus at all due to health conditions. Most of us will be in the middle, can work from home, and only in office occasionally. They are keeping numbers to a minimum.

we've been divided into 3 groups - those who need to be in work all the time, those who need to be in occasionally and those who mostly for health reasons are effectively not allowed in at the moment.

I'm in the middle group, and have been going in 1 morning per week.

We had our monthly 'whole team' meeting yesterday and there was no mention of doing anything different going forward.
I think there might be a phased return from September/October but any hint of the 'second wave' and this will be kicked into the new year..

I think i've been suffering with a bit of lock down fatigue.. i don't mind WFH, and will probably look to do it 2-3 days per week long term but i don't like not having a choice in the matter and as everything i do is as part of a team some aspects of the job are very difficult from home and/or take 3 times as long.

but as others have said i'm lucky to have kept what is a relatively well paid/low stress job throughout this crazy time.

My place is doing a phrased approach each lasting 8 weeks where they start to ramp up occupancy - starting with 25% then 50% in 8 weeks time. Book a desk online and once the 25% capacity has been reached thats it no more can get in or that day. They said any hint of a c19 case and the whole office shuts down and everyone has to isolate for 14 days. No word on when this will no longer be optional but similar firms in our industry (tech) are not going back until the new year.

Im one of the few really looking forward to going back I live in a 1 bed flat (joys of London life) with no desk or even a kitchen table so spend my days working from the sofa. I cycle to work but would likely feel different if I was getting the tube. I trust my employee to keep the place safe and we have been told masks must be used in all communal areas but its an open office so everything apart from the toilet cubical is communal.

Also, this – https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lockdown-work-from-home-fatigue
/blockquote>

Broadly it seems that there's two types of people. There's people like one of my colleagues who told me the other day that he can't wait to get back in the office for the social aspect of work, and there's people like me who are thinking this is bloody brilliant because there's no bugger here mithering me.

 

We have people that are literally not working from home – e.g. doing about 30 mins work in an 8 hour day.

Admittedly, it’s rare, but it is happening so I can see the reasons for it.

Isn't that what disciplinary procedures are for? If the only reason to have people in an office is because you don't trust them them you've either got the wrong staff or the wrong manager.

Broadly it seems that there’s two types of people. There’s people like one of my colleagues who told me the other day that he can’t wait to get back in the office for the social aspect of work, and there’s people like me who are thinking this is bloody brilliant because there’s no bugger here mithering me.

This, though it may also depend on the kind of work you do.

I'm in recruitment, it's slow out there and getting my head in gear to do some business development, knowing full well it'll be a lot of rejections, is hard work. In an office you have other people to bounce off, to talk to, to share the pain.

The other side is also true, I had a good day today and there's no-one to tell about it. I could put it on WhatsApp or Teams but then you look like a boasting fool. So I put a vaguely positive post on LinkedIn and left it there.

Personally, 2 or 3 days in the office and 2 or 3 from home would be cracking. I suspect I'll get that by the end of the year, but not before then.

We have people that are literally not working from home – e.g. doing about 30 mins work in an 8 hour day.

I don't get how this happens. Surely you allocate as much work as you'd expect (or need) them to be able to do, and if they don't do it you have words. If they can do everything expected of them in 30 mins then great.

Being asthmatic puts you in the 'clinically vulnerable' category.

As far as I can tell that doesn't mean anything work-wise, other than you're more likely to die if you catch it.

My job requires face to face contact with businesses using a lot of printouts.

I can't visit anyone, I don't have a printer or scanner I can use at home, I'm trying to persuade the people I deal with to change their processes to online at a time when they are trying to keep their businesses afloat. There are days when 30 productive minutes is a real victory.

I don’t get how this happens. Surely you allocate as much work as you’d expect (or need) them to be able to do, and if they don’t do it you have words. If they can do everything expected of them in 30 mins then great.

That's exactly how I'm measured. My boss this morning gave me a couple of days' work. So long as it's completed come Monday morning it doesn't matter whether in actuality it takes me two days or 20 minutes.

Similarly it doesn't matter whether I do it at 8:31am on Thursday morning or at 2am Sunday night, so long as it gets done or I have a very good reason why it hasn't. This whole 9 to 5 concept and the notion of trailing into an office every day are two cheeks of the same arse, in many cases it's outdated thinking. Of course there will always be some jobs which are time-sensitive, generally when you need to interact with other people. But if I need to write a report what am I gaining by putting on a suit and driving for an hour in heavy traffic to be somewhere for 8:29am over doing it sat in my pants in a comfy chair at 8 o'clock at night?

It's the old "we've always done it this way" argument and it's abject madness.

No suggestion of an office return for us yet (digital company so very last priority), but if they did say we were going back - could I refuse because I'd have to get the train?

I actually think I had the Covid back in March and caught in from Northern Rail's sardine tins at the time, but just in case I didn't...

No suggestion of an office return for us yet (digital company so very last priority), but if they did say we were going back – could I refuse because I’d have to get the train?

im in the same position as you. Work for a .com and since lockdown work has been harder at times but there hasn't been anything we couldnt do. Realistically its all down to your employer if I said I never wanted to go back my office would ask why and likely try and get me some talking therapy to work through anxiety issues around it. My work just refitted our building so will want people in it to see a ROI.

All that said I knew a few office who have already said wfh rights will be given to all forever and office optional. I think the danger with this is the additional cost of living is passed onto the you like utilities and coffee  for example.

As someone above said being asthmatic itself isnt a major risk factor, however things like how often needed steroids in last 12 months increase risk rating. Also ethnicity, age, bmi - multiple factors really.
Work should be making the environment "covid secure" to safeguard all. If have an occ health service are they risk assessing people with know health concerns? If you are worried try speak with them.
There are a variety of assessment tools for trying to figure out who should and should not return to sites, problem is covid is still so new that they aren't validated or known accurate.
https://alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/ this is one such tool being widely used to assess vulnerability.
We are still learning about the illness daily, even today they have added a new previously unknown symptom of rash to the others as diagnostic measure to say may have had it.

Some glorious management concepts being displayed here. 🙄

I'd talk to someone responsible - line manager? Explain the situation see what your options are.

I've just started at a new place. Mixture of people coming in on a rota, shielding and preferring to stay at home. It's about getting the job done in the most agreeable and efficient way.

If stuff get's done it doesn't matter where you are. 45 staff spread around the world and plenty of travelling means everyone is used working remotely which helps.

We have some folk that simply can’t do the work they need to do.
Call handlers with young children at home in a small house or flat that can’t get the quiet environment they need.
Or ditto software devs with small kids at home and no space. It’s not their fault that they can only get an hour of work done. And no, they shouldn’t have to be starting at stupid o’clock or putting in night shifts to make up for it.

What ots said, I'm lucky I have a home office but even that is starting to wear thin. Half my team are at home, using their own PCs to dial into their desktops via VMware, they don't have proper desks, chairs or often suitable places to work. Many of the more senior people seem to be working from their bedrooms or dining rooms, not ideal. Not everyone has good broadband, mine is usually around 20 mbps but drops right down at times making video calling difficult.

A third of the staff are still furloughed and the IT is starting to creak (and I think IT have done a pretty good job), with them WFH things will really slow down.

It's not working well for everyone.

Government science man says advice to work from home should not change.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53436865

Government science man says advice to work from home should not change.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-53436865 /a>

While I agree and am sorta pro pretty much anything that will get this thing gone and office are just germ central bugs seem to spread like mad. Although I do think the science here isn't looking a the mental health aspect. Im pretty fed up with working from home my options are sofa, bed or standing at work top in my kitchen its less than ideal. Lockdown burnout it starting to become a real thing especially at my work we are all fed up with working from home and limited social interaction.

allocate as much work as you’d expect (or need) them to be able to do, and if they don’t do it you have words.

Not my staff, people from other teams that I have heard about.
I think the issue is they aren’t getting through their allotted work as they find it hard to be productive at home, I would hope it’s not an attitude problem.

I suspect words have been had, but if their issues are like ots and stumpy are bringing up it would be a bit harsh to discipline...

Interesting article on work from home fatigue here. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lockdown-work-from-home-fatigue

The government has other reasons to get people back into the cities too. You have thousands of coffee shops, bars, restaurants, sandwich shops, that reply on office workers. If people stay out then you've got more redundancies and job losses.

As joefm says the current advice in England is that shielding ends at the end of this month, maybe HobNob is in either Wales or Scotland where their advice is different.

England based, but because of the medication I am on for my Asthma & because I have had the pleasure of enjoying a couple of bouts of pneumonia in recent times, I am considered to be a 'considerable risk'. My advice/guidance is not the generic NHS letter.

Which is ironic, because generally fit & healthy - just potentially very at risk!

It's fairly moot anyway, as we're scenario planning for a longer term later remote working option for those with no real need to be in all the time.

We have people that are literally not working from home – e.g. doing about 30 mins work in an 8 hour day.

Admittedly, it’s rare, but it is happening so I can see the reasons for it.

The location of where they are working (or not) is irrelevant, these sort of people display the same traits in an office environment. It's mostly down to poor management IME, people should have set tasks, & daily/weekly/monthly KPI's to be measured against.

If their output isn't there, they need to be asked why. Yes, being at home 'allows' for it not to be immediately picked up, but if they are literally doing bugger all why is no-one questioning it?

We’ve been back in the office for a couple of weeks with social distancing. The office is at a third staff capacity, one way systems for stairs and corridors, only one person allowed in the toilet at a time, one person allowed in the kitchen at a time. We also had to do a COVID H&S training exercise before we were allowed back.

I’m in 2 days out of 5 at the moment. Generally I could work from home most of the time, but my director is a bit old fashioned and wants to see people in. It feels safe enough, so I’m happy to do it, but I don’t have asthma or any known underlying problems.