[Closed] Glentress cafe up for lease

around here they are charging a couple quid just to park.... no facilitys at all... Scolty for example or kirkhill.

True, but the money raised at a particular location isn't ring fenced, it goes into the big pot. So in affect by paying at Scolty then you are paying for facilities and maintenance elsewhere like Glentress or Bennachie.

On the Glentress cafe, looking on TripAdvisor, it doesn't look like the present incumbents are covering themselves with glory, there are plenty reviews noting the bad and overpriced food.

Riding a pushbike that cost several thousand pounds then moaning about the cost of a bit of cake is a bit

it would be establishing a trail centre cafe

Apparently there is a cafe at Gisburn.

I can't really comment as I have never known it to be open. Whether summer or winter, mid week or weekend, early or late.

When left to their own devices, cafe owners don't always do the obvious things, so maybe that's what the FC where trying to avoid at GT.

Love the logic, if you do an expensive hobby put up with shit and stop complaining.

Or perhaps a £2 bit of cake isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. Then again I've never found the cafe to be expensive, but I guess it's all perspective and being used to paying big city prices, it's probably cheaper than normal for me.

BoardinBob - I think the point is that if you're paying that much for cake and coffee, and parking for your Audi, in order to ride your carbon fibre Santa Cruz around a forest, then bearing in mind these overheads, you're going to be left with little option but to increase the rent to the tenants in your buy-to-let properties.

Won't somebody think of the children?!

More if it's worth 2 quid or not. The breakfast I had was fairly average for the price. If you want to do something do it well, serving mediocre food to a captive audience will turn over cash but not make it work.

BoardinBob - I think the point is that if you're paying that much for cake and coffee, and parking for your Audi, in order to ride your carbon fibre Santa Cruz around a forest, then bearing in mind these overheads, you're going to be left with little option but to increase the rent to the tenants in your buy-to-let properties.

Won't somebody think of the children?!

😆

I am honestly surprised that the Forestry Commission can't develop a cafe. I was watching a harvester at work on a hilside and thought "By Kinnock! I bet the (British) manager of that harvester would make an excellent cafe guru!". Then I coughed and a bit of Coed Y Brenin came out.

A few years back, we stayed very local to the trails at Glentress. The owner commented they had talked with a FC representative re the new Peel building and had got the response that they did not want to encourage any more cyclists to Glentress.

To me, it seemed a bit odd that the FC moved 20,000 tonnes (or whatever) of soil to "landscape" something that didn't (IMO) need landscaping.

£7 million for a new "cafe" and a remarked desire not to encourage "any more cyclists". Did someone have a budget to burn?

With a spend of that much, a facility that will never cover costs (£35 quid flapjack anyone?), and anecdotal references to the car park user numbers dropping, I can see MTB'ers being blamed for the "failure" - "MTBing not as popular as it once was" and support for the trails first gradually, then brutally being withdrawn.

After all you can't state one thing and have evidence proving another.

It makes you think, doesn't it.

I actually heard that the landscaping above the Peel was an homage to The Grassy Knoll

I've to agree with many of the above, and IMO the biggest problem they have was created by whichever idiot it was that signed off a design which meant there wasn't a view from the café.

Probably the same idiot who dictated a site design that included spreading the buildings across the site, needed more earth moving than required for the access roads to the new Forth Bridge nevermind the kitchen/serving issues.

Food and drink wise, never have a problem; usually have Cullin Skink and a pot of tea (live nearby and ride there at least monthly if not more, nights too).

Whatever happens hope the blonde lady and the hippy chick keep their jobs 😉

was watching a harvester at work on a hilside and thought "By Kinnock! I bet the (British) manager of that harvester would make an excellent cafe guru!".

Well, the unlimited salad bar would probably help...

car park user numbers dropping

If user numbers are dropping, then we'll have to put the parking fees up to maintain current income levels! (Some would suggest that therein lies the mentality of the public sector)

[i]£7 million for a new "cafe" and a remarked desire not to encourage "any more cyclists". Did someone have a budget to burn?[/i]

I did hear that they got the full grant, rather than the 50% they were expecting...

The owner commented they had talked with a FC representative re the new Peel building and had got the response that they did not want to encourage any more cyclists to Glentress.

Perhaps that's Chinese whispers, I'd bet they were keen to encourage other user groups into the forest in order to mitigate any downturn in MTB numbers, as was already mentioned the whole trail center boom occurred as a response to F&M, so you'd expect it to swing back again. Or maybe they viewed MTB at Glentress to be at some nominal capacity, so were diverting investment elsewhere. Whereas encouraging walkers is probably much cheaper and straightforward (short routes, little erosion, happy on fire-roads) and they get the same increase in car parking and cafe revenue.

"Perhaps that's Chinese whispers" - Maybe.

But as perhaps as the "jewel in the crown" of the 7Stanes and with the right to roam (i.e. not sticking to the way marked routes), I would have thought diversification would lead to huge (but not insurmountable) conflict issues.

Forestry Commision good at growing trees a bit stuck in their ways and not good at providing and running facilities for other activities. Not much of a shock is it.

There have always been waymarked walkers route at Glentress. Walkers and cyclists mostly seem to co-exist just fine (occasional stories of folk wandering onto inappropriate trails notwithstanding) and diversification includes Go Ape which doesn't seem to cause much "conflict".

Mtbers don't own trail centers, perfectly sensible for FC to increase use by other groups. There shouldn't really be massive conflict issues if people are sensible. Heck the yanks manage it and they are hardly known for their 'gentle' conflict resolution.

I've had a really good think about what would be the most thankless, soul destroying task in the world.

After discounting fluffer at a busy LA porn studio, Boris Johnson's hairdresser, Donald Trumps PA, and Tony Blairs accountant, I've come to the conclusion that it would be establishing a trail centre cafe, serving food and coffee deemed to be of an acceptable standard, in an atmosphere generally regarded as conducive enough for the average whiney middle class cockbag STWer to think it was good enough to park their Audi outside (without paying for parking, naturally)

I've heard that this bread isn't even baked on the premises, and this salt isn't organic......

Nope, it's actually a pretty simple requirement Binners, Gemma at Dalbeattie, and also when she was at Mabie, has managed to turn out very decent food at a very reasonable price. The café at Ae is also pretty good, as was the one at Laggan before the FC decided it needed shutting too.

Hels- I was told the exact same re the frozen toasties.

Last time I went into Peebles, parked in town for 20p, went into Wetherspoons and had a surprisingly good Eggs benedict and decent coffee with free refills for the princely sum of 4.50. Then rode in via Janets brae - all for less than the cost of parking.

Or maybe they viewed MTB at Glentress to be at some nominal capacity, so were diverting investment elsewhere.

Last time I went into Peebles, parked in town for 20p, went into Wetherspoons and had a surprisingly good Eggs benedict and decent coffee with free refills for the princely sum of 4.50. Then rode in via Janets brae - all for less than the cost of parking.

Mrs Binners works for the Wildlife Trust. Their aren't enough swear words in the English language - even her own incredibly creative Wigan ones - to do justice to her talking about people doing just this. If someone listened to it in the pub, even in Wigan, they'd be writing some very very cutting reviews indeed about the establishment they heard it in, I can tell you!

In amongst all that free-flowing effing and jeffing, you'll learn that its because all that money that it costs to maintain those trails, pay for staff etc comes from the secret, magic money tree located in the enchanted glen at the centre of the forest. They spend all the money from the car parking fees on coke and hookers, while pointing to the mugs who pay it, and laughing like drains

True story

The owner commented they had talked with a FC representative re the new Peel building and had got the response that they did not want to encourage any more [s]whiney middle-class cockbags[/s] cyclists to Glentress.

🙂

Forestry Commision good at growing trees a bit stuck in their ways and not good at providing and running facilities for other activities. Not much of a shock is it.

I couldn't disagree more, their approach to the provision of MTB trails was far from stuck in their ways, in fact the leap from sticking some way markers on a loop of gravel forest road to the construction of dedicated singletrack trails with technical challenge was bold and visionary beyond the imagination of most MTB'ers at the time, and utterley reinvigorated the tourist trade in several depressed rural areas.

It's the inability to capitalise on it and the mismanagement of 'grand project' high spend, vanilla trailhead facilities that they seem to repeatedly fall down on.

On a sunny Saturday or Sunday, the traffic queues into Glentress are crazy.
Yet Inners has 50 folk there....

In all my years of going I've never experienced traffic queues but maybe that's a more recent problem. And as for Inners, the majority of trails there are beyond the ability of most folks owning a BSO. Although there seems to be enough people parking at the golf course for the people in the sweaters to put up signs asking them not to park there.

Binners, I'd suggest you look at the FOI mentioned earlier in the thread re where the fiver goes at GT before you get all hot and bothered. I put plenty of money into MTBing in this country, just not through that channel.

In all my years of going I've never experienced traffic queues but maybe that's a more recent problem. And as for Inners, the majority of trails there are beyond the ability of most folks owning a BSO. Although there seems to be enough people parking at the golf course for the people in the sweaters to put up signs asking them not to park there.

Apart from being a soul destroying climb I didn't think that the red was that much worse than the Red at GT.

I'ts easy to say that if things aren't as promised then it's for the lawyers to sort out. It lawyers cost money and the current lease holders, despite what a lot of people on here seem to think, aren't a big business who are raking in the cash and making the customer suffer, they are a small, local business doing their best to survive in very unfavourable terms.
There are extensive issues and differences between what was promised by the FC and what has transpired, in respect to when the centre opened, what the building was supposed to be and what was supposed to happen after the Peel got going.

As a comparison, I have been down to Sherwood Pines a couple of times with the family for a holiday. Once you get into the forest centre, everything is right there, parks for the kids to play in, the start to all the walks and bike trails, go ape snd the off-road segways etc. All are right there with the cafe, you can park your car and spend an entire day with the family no problem.
Then look at Glentress, the cafe and car park is (as was amusingly but accurately described as a hole earlier) at the bottom edge of the forest, you can get to the start of some of the forest walks across the road. If you fancy go-ape then that's a 5minute walk up the road assuming you know it's there as they don't make much effort to let you know if you assume the Peel is supposed to be a base to start from.. The free ride area is a 5 minute DRIVE up the hill if you just fancied a bit of fun and jumping, the list goes on..

As I understand it, the current master plan by the FC is to flatten the free ride area, build 60 odd forest lodges in that area for holiday makers and then 'recreate' the free ride area at the peel at the bottom of the hill. To my mind this is a sticking plaster over the problem and given that I highly doubt a fully FC controlled free ride area will stand up to what is at the buzzards nest currently I can't see it being as popular, I hope I'm wrong.
It still doesn't address the issue of the Peel supposedly being the centrepiece of the forest where everyone starts and finishes but everything in the forest starts somewhere else..
The FCs other stated goal for the future was to transition Glentress away from being a working forest with a few public attractions to a tourism led business where the attractions are the main source of income. As I understand it the lumber content of the forest is being transitioned towards this goal...?!?
Try as I might I cannot understand what the FC are doing, it seems almost as if they are trying to make it fail for some reason...

Apart from being a soul destroying climb I didn't think that the red was that much worse than the Red at GT.

Last descent has some steep bits and drops that are quite a bit bigger than anything on the red at GT - still nothing too mental though. I bet the climb puts off a lot of the less 'enthusiast' mountain bikers though.

And there's the fabulous Blue and Green trails at Innerleithen too

i went to llandegla cafe last week

they are doing a special on...

a dish in which all ingredients are locally sourced from either Wrexham, Flintshire or Denbighshire.

The chorizo sausage is specially made for us from our neighbours at Stanley Jones Butchers, who produce premium, grass-fed British meat, reared on their farm just outside of the Coed Llandegla Forest boundary. Topped with yogurt from Llaeth y Llan, Village Dairy in Denbigh where Gareth Roberts and his family have produced superb yogurt from their old farmhouse since the ’80s. The dish is finished with mint and pea shoots from the longest established fruit and vegetable wholesale supplier in the area, J. & R. R. Goodyear and Son, based in Hawarden.

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ticks all the stw middle class cockbag boxes (tho i drive a zafira) was delicous and served swiftly even tho it was very busy

meanwhile at the Peel Centre....

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I couldn't disagree more, their approach to the provision of MTB trails was far from stuck in their ways, in fact the leap from sticking some way markers on a loop of gravel forest road to the construction of dedicated singletrack trails with technical challenge was bold and visionary beyond the imagination of most MTB'ers at the time, and utterley reinvigorated the tourist trade in several depressed rural areas.

The problem with that argument is that the FC weren't the drivers behind the MTB trails. As far as Glentress was concerned a local legend (Pete Laing) worked pretty hard at convincing the FC to let him and a group of 'Trail Fairies' volunteers build the basis for what is the current black/red and blue routes, not to mention the beginnings of what is now the free ride area, the majority of the FC contribution was some machinery and an operator who also served as a H&S guide to stop the fairies getting carried away with ott trails.
Since the trails became established and Pete has moved on there is a chap employed by the FC who has just about enough budget to maintain what's currently there with the occasional possibility to build something new with fairy help. Luckily the guy is a keen and very fast rider himself which i think helps with a lot of the shortfall...

Not directly cafe related but certainly another indicator of how crap the FC are

A spanking big toilet and shower block...that shuts at 5pm all year round (and doesn't open until 9am). Night ride? No shower or toilet for you. Early morning start? Pee or crap in a bush...

Yes, but Llandegla is housed in a clean, but functional, wooden chalet building with fairly basic facilities,

think how many more people it might attract if it was in a shiny new state of the art glass and granite Eco-building, with mood lighting and gold taps - that's what the visitor of tomorrow really needs... 👿

The problem with that argument is that the FC weren't the drivers behind the MTB trails.

Since the trails became established and Pete has moved on there is a chap employed by the FC who has just about enough budget to maintain what's currently there with the occasional possibility to build something new with fairy help

ticks all the stw middle class cockbag boxes (tho i drive a zafira) was delicous and served swiftly even tho it was very busy

meanwhile at the Peel Centre....

In contrast I was sat having breakfast between practice and race a couple of weeks ago eating great fresh made food. Followed up by a great dinner in a great atmosphere.

I remember the time I went to the new thing at CyB same hollow empty feel.

Apparently there is a cafe at Gisburn.

I can't really comment as I have never known it to be open.

There's a food trailer semi-permanently there now, so I guess it wasn't viable to keep a cafe in operation.

Yes it does seem strange that people are sneered at for making decent, quality food from fresh ingredients. Perhaps it would help MTB get back to it's roots if there was a Gregs and a BK at the trail head, with a late night Kebab van for the night riders.

As I understand it, this is one of the more likely scenarios for what moves in when the current lease expires. Either that or a large, well known chain retailer of hot, caffeinated drinks.
Certainly can't see the prices going down much or the range of food improving if that happens...

The majority of people riding at Inners aren't doing the Red loop.

A spanking big toilet and shower block...that shuts at 5pm all year round (and doesn't open until 9am). Night ride?

Are you George Michael?

But seriously this is such a petty thing to have a go at the FC for, seems perfectly sensible if they want to ensure they say clean and in decent working order. How many night riders are there who can't have dump before arriving and nip home for a shower afterwards? I doubt people travel many miles for a night ride at Glentress.

The post-ride spread that the pub in Backup, across from Lee Quary, put on for us for us in their beer garden recently was exquisite. All organic and locally sourced too. The prawns were even caught in the river Irwell we were informed. Though one of our party suspected the Quinoa was from Chilli, though more than likely still Fairtrade, so we decided not to complain in the extensive internet review we wrote afterwards. We did complain about other issues, but this was mainly regarding the coarse language of the unsavoury looking regulars in the saloon bar, which could still be heard above the string quartet

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I'm impressed by how you can make every conflict into the class war Binners !! That shows proper dedication to the cause, comrade.

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😀

The prawns were even caught in the river Irwell we were informed. Though one of our party suspected the Quinoa was from Chilli [Chile?]

Prawn and quinoa pastie?

But seriously this is such a petty thing to have a go at the FC for, seems perfectly sensible if [b]they want to ensure they say clean and in decent working order[/b]. How many night riders are there who can't have dump before arriving and nip home for a shower afterwards? I doubt people travel many miles for a night ride at Glentress.

I've used the showers a number of times in recent weeks and the actual changing area has been absolutely filthy. People getting changed out of dirty clothes which drops mud all over the floor, and it never seems to get cleaned at all during the day. Even a brush left in the room to allow us to sweep up afterwards would be progress.

Compare them to the toilets at Tweed Green for example. The doors are on some time lock system so they open very early AM then lock around 11pm. They're always spotlessly clean first thing in the morning. I know this for a fact because I'll often park my camper in the Tweed Green car park, and be up and using the toilets circa 6am and they've been spotlessly cleaned minutes earlier, and are spotless any time I've used them.

Then you have the GT toilets with limited opening hours, a cursory clean at the end of the night then left to get filthy during the day. It might seem like a petty gripe, but it's more of an indication of how little effort or thought the FC put in. I didn't realise forests were only open 9-5.

Funnily enough I made quinoa and chorizo stew last night, using the last of the quinoa I found at the back of the cupboard- we bought it from a market in Peru on our honeymoon, most middle class stwer of the day!!
(dont worry my scouse mother in law is down today so i suspect [s]dinner[/s] tea will be along the lines of mince and spuds and overcooked veggies)

Im back at glentress for the enduro over easter so I may actually try a toastie!

do they still have a remit or legal obligation to provide leisure services and facilities?

not quite as such, if you go to the FC website it explains what they do, though I can't find the nice paragraph that explains it I'm sure I found before, but in a hastily written unresearched nutshell they have a duty to allow recreation access where it doesn't interfere with the operation of the commercial forest, but they encourage and develop leisure uses of the forest through the strategies of the different devolved FC bodies.

Also they need the forest estate to largely fund itself as per http://www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/webnewsreleases/fbdab664db1764fa80257b50003ad82a . I can imagine that visiting mountain bikers who begrudgingly pay a few quid to park and maybe pass on a couple of quid back to the FC through the cafe are probably not viewed as a great source of income, things like families and overnight visitors are what they would be wanting, probably why the masterplan has a focus on holiday accomodation.

FC are basically financially screwed from devolution and budget cuts as far as I can see. I'll be surprised if there is any progressive mtb development in the next few years.

Not been in the café since the old one shut. When we are up there we tend to stay at the Tontine and ride up from the town and so miss it.

Will be up with the camper for the Enduro at Easter so will be self sufficient. I was going to spend some time in their as I have to have another foot operation the day before so will be sporting a pot for six weeks. If its that bad I may take a load of books and stay in the van.