How/why are they/can they be related?
Similarly, how does this make sense ?
'greater reliance on non-fossil fuels such as nuclear and renewables, could reduce Britain's dependence on gas imports' (Ofgem)
I get the idea behind alternative sources of electricity but don't most people in the UK heat their homes using gas. What alternative is there?
Passive homes.
What alternative is there?
Passivhaus.
Plenty
As gas becomes more expensive there is an incentive to change to a non fossil fuel based system. Or to add solar HW etc to compliment your gas system.
New builds will look to other sources and when systems are replaced then they will change over.
The only thing that will change the majority of people is cost. Greeny handwringing doesn't come into it until the wallet says it makes sense.
Most people use petrol but they still tax that.
What alternative is there?
Less of whatever they use, whilst funding the development of what we should / could use.
And a fair few on here had a pop at me when I referred to how ordinary folk were paying extra so that those that could already afford it were been subsidised.
[i]I get the idea behind alternative sources of electricity but don't most people in the UK heat their homes using gas. What alternative is there?
[/i]
You don't get out (of the town/city) much do you?
It doesn't make sense (financially) which is why they have / are scaling back subsidies for some renewable scheme eg solar.
EDIT: If Shale gas turns out to be as abundant as some say, the whole renewables thing will be kicked into the long grass for some decades yet.
You don't get out (of the town/city) much do you?
Fully aware you country types have wood burners/oil/lpg etc 🙂
Just picturing row upon row of Victorian redbrick terraces - all with gas combi boilers. Pretty sure some councils/housing associations have systematically ripped out storage heaters/emersion water heaters and replaced them with gas.
What alternative is there to gas central heating in the massive stock of poorly insulated solid-walled victorian era housing stock?
Tech - that is the problem. Most of our housing stock does not work well with renewables so insulation is the key. Expect to see lots of exterior cladding of terraces soon!
What alternative is there to gas central heating in the massive stock of poorly insulated solid-walled victorian era housing stock?
Smaller rooms as priorities change.
Expect to see lots of exterior cladding of terraces soon!
Getting harder to do that as more and more areas become Conservation Areas. I'd need full planning consent for cladding and wouldn't get it. Mind you the howling gale which runs under / through the floor boards in winter (large under floor cavity) would be my first priority if I wanted to cut the gas bill....
What alternative is there to gas central heating in the massive stock of poorly insulated solid-walled victorian era housing stock?
Gas is pretty much the cheapest way to heat them right now and possibly for some time yet.
[s]Most of our housing stock does not work well with renewables so [/s]insulation is the key.
FTFY. It doesn't matter what the energy source is - use less.
if I wanted to cut the gas bill
I'm having trouble coming up with something that isn't just sarcastic here. You find wasting your money acceptable?
[quote=technicallyinept ]how does this make sense ?
'greater reliance on non-fossil fuels such as nuclear and renewables, could reduce Britain's dependence on gas imports' (Ofgem)
I get the idea behind alternative sources of electricity but don't most people in the UK heat their homes using gas.
Because the electricity generators also burn gas
[i]Fully aware you country types have wood burners/oil/lpg etc
[/i]
Most are on electric, which is the most expensive, by far. We've oil and electric, and next month wood/coal too. But insulation is key.
as some one who visits up to a dozen homes a day, working on heating you may be surprised how many people dont have central heating at all relying on gas fires gas wall heaters or electric rads..
in the new year the govt will introduce the green deal in which primarily homes more than 30 years old can be 'lent' up to 6500 to reduce thier carbon impact.. this loan to be repaid via your fuel bills. the loan will be over 20 or more years.. and will be on the property not the purchaser so that if you move after 5 years you stop paying and the new home owner takes on the remainder of the loan..
we have a 4 bed detached 10 yrs old and we use 16000 kw of gas pa and 4k pa of leccy.. i ve just signed up to pay 82 pm to cover this usage with edf fixed for two years..
You find wasting your money acceptable?
Well waste is rather subjective, e.g. upgrading a groupset on a bike could be seen as wasteful, and costs more than my gas bill. As it is, the gas bill doesn't bother me, so I'm not inclined to go through the cost / inconvenience of improving the insulation.
Because the electricity generators also burn gas
They also switch between supplying gas / generating electricity based on the spot price of each fuel. One of the advantages of has turbines is they can react within a few minutes. Eg EON will stop generating leccy and pump the gas direct to Transco if the gas price is greater than the leccy price.
Well waste is rather subjective, e.g. upgrading a groupset on a bike could be seen as wasteful, and costs more than my gas bill. As it is, the gas bill doesn't bother me, so I'm not inclined to go through the cost / inconvenience of improving the insulation.
And because of this the prices will go up until it reaches a point where you do become inclined to insulate and reduce usage.
While it can be covered by CBA then nothing will get done. There are plenty of subsidised and free insulation schemes going that you could use.
And because of this the prices will go up until it reaches a point where you do become inclined to insulate and reduce usage.
Yep, market forces. There's nothing new here, same as choice of car. My last car was a 2.8l V6 gas guzzler - my choice and I was quite happy with it. I'm now car-less, so from one extreme to another..
Well waste is rather subjective,
Is it?
One man's waste is another man's entertainment. E.g. I consider Sky to be a waste of time & money, but there are plenty who would disagree....
One man's waste is another man's entertainment. E.g. I consider Sky to be a waste of time & money, but there are plenty who would disagree....
OK, I thought we were just talking about heating and insulation.
It's still all subjective, some people consider bright, warm rooms and long hot power showers wasteful, others consider them a basic minimum standard. As for Sky and TV, it's all powered from the same gas that poorly insulated homes are wasting!
Passivehaus... you are having a laugh surely. That is a very, very expensive route to go down on a new build and pretty much a non-starter on existing. The deep green brigade get way too hung up on such technology and are massively missing the point IMO. Why chase something as an ideal that is only achievable by the very richest in society? It is a pipe dream... yet aiming for 98% reduction in energy consumption in the home from a heating and waste perspective is actually very achievable in a new build and at only a modest price premium.
But for some reason they don't want to consider such things... it is all or nothing with some folk.
It's still all subjective,
That would mean that pretty much everything is subjective, not really worth debating. I was working on the idea of anything that isn't efficient creates waste.
Live and learn, eh!
Depends how happy you are buying gas from Russia.
Retro-insulating to passive house standards is really quite cheap if you're prepared to DIY.
If you take Roof R7, walls R4 and floor R3 then a 30s house with double hollow block but no cavity and a grovelling space under the floor boards cost:
Walls about 20e/m2 for multi-layer insulation and wood with only 6cm lost on the inside
the roof was so cheap I didn't work it out
120mm recycled polyester under the floor was a real fiddle making up wooden bits to hold it in place but cost only about 12e/m2.
We still haven't had to light the wood burner this Autumn but may do later if the heat from the TV, computer and cooking doesn't get the place back over 20°C.
Passivehaus... you are having a laugh surely. That is a very, very expensive route to go down on a new build and pretty much a non-starter on existing. The deep green brigade get way too hung up on such technology and are massively missing the point IMO. Why chase something as an ideal that is only achievable by the very richest in society? It is a pipe dream
You're out of date - prices are dropping all the time. It is the highest standard so should we not aspire to it? I agree that anything in that direction is a good thing but does that mean nobody can work towards making it cost the same as a standard build?
way too hung up on such technology
You mean reducing draughts and improving insulation? That is what we're talking about here.